Presidential Rumour: Is Brian Burke a Calgary Flame? - UPDATE - Yup. Press Conference at 10am

bookofloob
September 04 2013 06:20PM

 

 

Rumour broke out BUT A FEW MINUTES AGO from former Calgary media scribe Bruce Dowbiggin that it seems like your Calgary Flames are set to announce the hiring of former Leafs GM/current curmudgeon Brian Burke:

 

 

Now take that with the grainiest grain of salt you can find, because obviously nothing has been confirmed, and near as I can tell, this mostly seems like speculation on Dowbiggin's part, not him conveying the news. You'll remember he was initially the one who reported that the Flames were originally looking for a new President of Hockey Operations, which is where all that speculation that Brendan Shanahan came from back in June, so we shouldn't ignore what's being said here.

After Shanahan said thanks but no thanks to the job and erstwhille rumours of Burke himself taking the job were quelled, the story lost all it's traction and we all looked on to bigger and better things, ie. Draft Day and Free Agency. Updates, if there ever were any, on this development completely stalled.

Now that training camp is oh so ridiculously close, and the remaining days of summer start to drift away, you can bet we'll be fed a lot of hearsay about the Flames filling this position, and yeah, Burke is a name I expect to see a lot of as this fire starts to grow out of control.

We all know that Ken King has a lot more on his plate these days since taking control over the Flames Limited Partnership, which requires he oversee the daily goings on of the Flames, Stampeders, Hitmen, and Roughnecks. This is a position you have to believe the team really would like to fill, preferably giving the role to someone with more of an acumen for hockey than Ken King, meaning literally almost anybody.

Though I'm not convinced Burke is the right guy for the job. His views on the game seem pretty old fashioned to me and doesn't jive well with the new direction this team is supposedly going in. Honestly, I would have preferred Shanahan, but who knows what Burke's mindset would be. We could expect some bold new horizons for the GRITCHART, of that we can be sure.

Of course, the fact that Brian Burke is on a plane to Calgary right now does NOT equate to "The Flames have hired the almost tie wearing angry Irish Guy to oversee hockey operations", and could very well mean nothing, but hey, isn't this fun? I'm told Burke's daughter lives here in the city, coming to visit her seems like a very reasonable thing to do, doesn't it?

If this all comes to fruition, my favourite part of his tenure will be whatever synonym for "Aggressive" he uses to coin the direction of the team (Truculent is so played out). My personal favourites are Bellicosity and (my personal favourite) Scurrilous. Damn that sounds hip.

Update - Burke landed in Calgary last night and the Flames have a PC scheduled for 10am this morning, likely to announce the hire. FAN960 will be covering it if you want to follow along.

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The Book of Loob is the Nation's resident expert in flim-flammery and twaddle. An unabashed Flames fan, when BoL is not intellectually bankrupting Flames Nation, he can be seen rooting for Blair Jones, often to excess, at Book of Loob. Follow him on twitter here.
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#101 Captain Ron
September 05 2013, 12:12PM
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Big Cap wrote:

First it was Torts in Vancouver and now Burkey in Calgary. Both teams are in a free fall state.

While both your cities bashed us up here in Edmonton over the past few years, have fun with your declining Rosters and leaders of your organizations.

This is one guy from Oil Country that couldn't be happier today!

Lets Go Oilers!

Looking at the Oiler ownership and management group you have very little to toot your horn about.

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#102 Parallex
September 05 2013, 12:19PM
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@McRib

For real?

A: It's not Kessel vs. Seguin it's Kessel vs. Seguin & Hamelton & Knight. B: What good has Kessel done them? 3 out of 4 years that he's been there they missed the Playoffs (twice spectacularily missed). And the one time they've made it it was a fluke. C: Kessel is a free agent at the end of this upcoming season.

If anything the Kessel trade demonstrates how badly Burke misjudged the team. It's an awful trade. I would much rather have Seguin and Hamelton & Knight then Kessel given the above.

The Phaneaf trade is hardly a "homerun" as Phaneaf is both overpaid and overrated... true he got more back then he gave out but it's not ike what he got was at all spectacular.

Burke is not a good GM anymore (if he ever was). I think today marks subtraction by addition.

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#103 TRAV
September 05 2013, 12:20PM
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piscera.infada wrote:

I'm really unsure how I feel about this. I have always been a little bit biased against the man as he's worked for 2 of the 3 teams I despise most in the league.

That said, I find it somewhat odd that the same people clamoring for a "hockey-guy" who's not a "yes man" in the front office are the same people who are vehemently against this move. I understand biases (especially those attached to the Canucks) are hard to overcome, but Brian Burke is most definitely a 'hockey guy', and is without a doubt not a 'yes man'. The other thing I like about him is that he's got balls to get what he believes needs to be done, done.

If he were being hired as a GM I would be a little more worried than I am now. However, as a guy who will help guide Feaster's hand in trades and free agency, I like him. He also has the credibility to be a good liaison between the team and the league, and the team and other teams. Thus, as a president of hockey ops (or whatever he's doing) I'm happy about it.

I couldn't agree more!

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#104 Clyde
September 05 2013, 12:23PM
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Captain Ron wrote:

Looking at the Oiler ownership and management group you have very little to toot your horn about.

I didn't realize Mr Bold Moves and Kevin Slow had turned the Oil into such a power

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#105 Baalzamon
September 05 2013, 12:31PM
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I crawled out from under my rock for this?

*blinks balefully at light and slinks away*

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#106 redricardo
September 05 2013, 12:39PM
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On this day in history:

Having had enough of destroying the Flames from afar, Brian Burke decided to take a more 'hands on' approach

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#107 McRib
September 05 2013, 12:54PM
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@Parallex

Seguin is GONZO he was destroying the dressing room. Jared Knight is not even an NHL prospect after his OHL point totals plummeted last year when two 17 year-olds pushed him out of his ice time (Horvat/Domi). Dougie Hamilton looked very average as a rookie. Not to mention I doubt it plays out the same and Toronto would not gotten Hamilton with that 7th pick anyway. That was more Bostons dumb luck.

Give me the sure thing anyday, Toronto got one of the best pure goal scorers in the league who took his team into the playoffs on his back last year!!

Answer me this if Boston had Phil Kessel do they beat Chicago and win the cup this year? Yup most likely!!! If they had Phil Kessel in 2011 instead of Seguin's whopping 7 points... Do they still win? Yup. Or even better would they have collapsed against Philly the year before with such a clutch scorer... Nope probably not. They would have at least one, maybe two more Stanely Cups with Kessel.

I don't care if Phaneuf is overrated getting an all-star for Matt Stajan is a homerun.

Not to mention he fleeced GMs left and right in trades/signings by bringing in (Franson, Gardiner, Lupul, JVR, Bozak, Reimer, etc). He literally made Toronto a playoff team by giving away Brett Lebda, Robert Slaney, Luke Schenn, François Beauchemin and a 4th rounder.... If he is not a good GM anymore then I don't have a clue what is.

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#108 Purple Hazze
September 05 2013, 12:58PM
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Parallex wrote:

For real?

A: It's not Kessel vs. Seguin it's Kessel vs. Seguin & Hamelton & Knight. B: What good has Kessel done them? 3 out of 4 years that he's been there they missed the Playoffs (twice spectacularily missed). And the one time they've made it it was a fluke. C: Kessel is a free agent at the end of this upcoming season.

If anything the Kessel trade demonstrates how badly Burke misjudged the team. It's an awful trade. I would much rather have Seguin and Hamelton & Knight then Kessel given the above.

The Phaneaf trade is hardly a "homerun" as Phaneaf is both overpaid and overrated... true he got more back then he gave out but it's not ike what he got was at all spectacular.

Burke is not a good GM anymore (if he ever was). I think today marks subtraction by addition.

Couldn't agree more with your assessments in regards to the Kessel and Phaneaf trades. The Phaneaf trade is one of those few trades in the NHL I consider to be lose-lose, if we had a better GM we could have made it win-lose for us, but no one getting Phaneaf is a winner, especially if you make him your captain!

I've always hated Brian Burke for his huge ego, very nervous about him here and the direction he might take this team. Hopefully he ends up being a nice balance to Feaster, I guess we'll have to wait and see.

BTW does anyone know when the hat eating is going to happen??

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#109 the forgotten man
September 05 2013, 01:23PM
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I think that I see what is going on here...on-ice product is going to smell for the foreseeable future, so let's shift attention to the soap opera that the front office is about to become. The Flames Management structure is more resembling something out of Alberta Health Services. By last count, I see Edwards, King, Burke, Feaster and Weisbrod. They had better be expanding the Boardroom for the new arena to accomodate that much ego. Oh well, at least Burke will be good for 5-6 off the wall interviews/comments on HNIC this season going forward.

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#110 Parallex
September 05 2013, 01:36PM
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@McRib

Even if you want to discount Seguin (and I don't, I think he's a future superstar) Seguin brought back Louie Erikson... a guy whose logged more points then Kessel during Kessel's tenure with the Leafs, add Hamelton & Knight onto that deal and it's easily still a huge steal for the Bruins.

You can't ask if Boston had Phil Kessel do they beat Chicago and win the cup this year... if they don't have Seguin and Hamelton do they even get there? If they have Kessel who do they jettison to make room for his salary? And without whomever they jettison to make room for his salary do they even win the cup against Vancouver? Nobody knows that stuff. Can't play the "what if" game... that way maddness lay.

Seriously, the Leafs fluked their way into the playoffs (and get bumped in the first round)last year, after Burke is turfed... so what. That doesn't somehow render the gangbang of failure that Burke was responsible for prior to last year. Burke decided to trade away multiple first round picks to acquire a 30 goal scorer for what turned out to be the 2nd worst team in the NHL (after adding said 30G scorer)... that is as strong an indictment against his ability to evaluate a hockey team as possible.

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#111 Mike Modano's Dog
September 05 2013, 01:41PM
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I've been an Oilers fan for as long as I can remember, and I can say from my point of view that this IS a very good signing for your team!

Burke will bring your team the physical element that the Oilers are missing, and will be apparently missing forever as long as our management team stays the same up top. We have actually gotten a little smaller this year, amazingly, and definitely LOST some toughness with the loss of our one big heavyweight defenceman over the summer...all for the sake of adding more 'puck-moving' defenceman.

We are going to get our asses handed to us this year, guaranteed. For all the talent we have amassed I HATE watching those kids get manhandled and injured all the time. IMO it is very irresponsible management on the part of Kevin Lowe, and now MacT, to allow this to happen. That could have changed this summer easily!

Adding Burke will make you acquire not just big bodies, but ones that can play, but will fight, intimidate, and strike fear into the opposition...after his team takes shape. On a team that is headed down the same path the Oilers were on, which is a long ways away from playoff contention - you need something to cheer for. This will do bring you guys that, I believe!

As the Oilers will eventually learn you cannot be successful if you're constantly physically manhandled - which you rarely see with Detroit, even. So, while your team will be years away talent-wise I think you can capitalize on the advantages that size with skill will give you to even that up. He will make some good moves, that will greatly help your team's future - because 'til now you guys had none to speak of!

Even with the Kessel trade that I absolutely hammered Burke on, his overall record for trading is actually VERY GOOD! He himself said that sometimes you lose trades, but hopefully you do more good ones and the good ones outweigh the bad. Even when that happened he still kept on dealing until he made up for it, and more! Keeping in mind that I believe he lost that one easily he still helped the Leafs overall and brought them out of nowhere to become a competitive team. He completely made up for that mistake, much to my surprise.

And the fact that he and K-Lowe don't like each other is GOLD for your market!

Congratulations, Calgary...today I think you guys found a guy to help your organization in the future, which I didn't see you had before, with your G.M. and president! I may have to start cheering for your team again...like I did as a kid when you first got your franchise. (The Atlanta Flames were my favourite team a loong time ago, when I was just a kid.) I just may have to start digging out my old Atlanta Flames banner!

Oh, and by the way - Dan Bouchard does have the coolest mask ever. Kudos on immortalizing it you guys! That was awesome to see when I went to the World Juniors finals...I never knew it was there!!! :D

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#112 TRAV
September 05 2013, 02:14PM
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John Shannon is suggesting that with Burke as GM it is most likely that Monahan will return to junior for developing.

Also interesting that a few reporters are suggesting that the ROR offer sheet as well as the Iginla trade confusion were catalysts for the hiring of a more Senior hockey advisor.

Finally I was intrigued by Burke making the comment that the team could look different come the start of the year. He was talking about trades with teams in cap trouble and possible free agents. He said something like, "I don't think that we are done. There are still deals out there to be made and we have cap space. We want to use it wisely but it is an asset." Would love to see them land some young talent as has been discussed here at length.

If nothing else I think that hockey in Calgary just got more interesting...

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#113 piscera.infada
September 05 2013, 02:53PM
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TRAV wrote:

John Shannon is suggesting that with Burke as GM it is most likely that Monahan will return to junior for developing.

Also interesting that a few reporters are suggesting that the ROR offer sheet as well as the Iginla trade confusion were catalysts for the hiring of a more Senior hockey advisor.

Finally I was intrigued by Burke making the comment that the team could look different come the start of the year. He was talking about trades with teams in cap trouble and possible free agents. He said something like, "I don't think that we are done. There are still deals out there to be made and we have cap space. We want to use it wisely but it is an asset." Would love to see them land some young talent as has been discussed here at length.

If nothing else I think that hockey in Calgary just got more interesting...

First off, Burke is not the GM.

Second, I'm not so sure this was a move to punish Feaster - I would assume that he is actually held in decent regard with the higher ups in the organization at this point ("yes man" and all). It also seems like it's been in the organization's plans for quite some time, especially after acquiring the Stamps.

Third, in his media scrum after the presser, he was asked about that statement. By "the team looking different" he was talking about the front office, namely the scouting department (both pro and amateur scouting).

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#114 McRib
September 05 2013, 02:59PM
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@Parallex

"Louie Erikson... a guy whose logged more points then Kessel during Kessel's tenure with the Leafs"

Ummmm.... No he hasn't since 2009-2010 Phil Kessel has 253 Points compared to Erikssons 244. He also has 25 MORE goals and is two years younger (In the last two years Kessel has 34 more points). Eriksson is a complimentary guy who can play first line. Phil Kessel is a 40 goal scorer that every team in the league is looking for like I said I don't see a steal anywhere for Boston, Toronto got the best player in the trade.

I also don't think Seguin comes anywhere close to his potential. He is a meathead partier who's only concern is chasing skirts, not worth 6 million!!! Ala another Evander Kane. Dougie Hamilton falling to 7th was a fluke and wouldn't happen twice.

You also completely ignore every other move Burke made the following 2+ seasons when evaluating his work as a GM.

The funny thing is Nonis has already destroyed most of Burke's work this summer. Signing Bozak before Kadri & Franson was absolutly the dummest thing to happen this offseason, outside of David Clarkson's rediculous UFA contract of course. Bringing in Jonathan Bernier.... when James Reimer is already a better goalie (TO should ask TB how Anders Lindbäck is doing).

Burke was let go in TO because its a rediclous fishbowl and Tim Leiweke is an egotistical maniac!! Only in Toronto does a Cody Franson put up 29 points in a lock shortened season and all the people can talk about is "Freeing Jake Gardiner". There is a reason Toronto has not won a Stanley Cup since 1967 they push anyone good out the door.

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#115 MonsterPod
September 05 2013, 03:08PM
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Lotta Burkie haters out there, but personally I love this. Hopefully he is 'effectively' the GM while Feaster and Weisbrod are 'effectively' his assistants. That may be the only way this team can turn around from being the smallest, wimpiest bunch in the league.

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#116 TRAV
September 05 2013, 03:34PM
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@piscera.infada

We may be talking about different scrums. I am referencing an interview on the fan around 11:15. I could be mistaken (travelling with a two year old can make it difficult to hear in the car) but I am pretty sure that he discussed cap space specifically. Others may be able to confirm or dispel. (again I can't say for certain)

With regards to the ROR and Iginla situations being catalysts that was suggested by Globe and Mail's Duhatchuk. I doubt that we will ever know for certain if this was a contributor or not. I suspect that at the very least these two incidents were points of conversation for King-Edwards and Feaster. I would agree though that Feaster was referred to in the highest terms today at the presser.

I don't think that they have sorted out exactly what the role will look like. In a perfect world Burke's connections and experience will help to strengthen Calgary's management team. Burke seems to be a good negotiator on trades and he may be an asset in this regard. I would agree that he made it clear that he was not the GM however, he also is the man that Feaster reports to. There is little questions that he will have influence over the direction of the team, to what extent is yet to be determined.

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#117 Parallex
September 05 2013, 04:52PM
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@McRib

"You also completely ignore every other move Burke made the following 2+ seasons when evaluating his work as a GM."

Alright how about we evaluate some of his other moves let's go with these ones...

1: Signs defenceman Mike Komisarek to a five-year contract at $4.5-million a season

2: Signs Colton Orr to a four-year contract at $1-million a season.

3: Trades Alexei Ponikarovsky for Luca Caputi and Martin Skoula.

4: Trades Jiri Tlusty for Philippe Paradis

5: Signs Tim Connolly for two years 9.5M

6: Christmas Presents! Extends (and gives a raise) to coach Ron Wilson... March 2 fires Ron Wilson.

7: Sign Mikhail Grabovski to a 5 year $27,000,000.00 contract

8: Signs Brett Lebda to a two year 2.9M Contract.

9: Trades Pavel Kubina and Tim Stapleton Atlanta in exchange for Garnet Exelby and Colin Stuart

10: Signs Colby Armstrong to a 3 year $9,000,000.00 Contract

Burke isn't some great GM who made one bad move (A really really really really really bad move). He's made a lot of bad moves which were only given a modicum of forgiveness because MLSE is hyper-rich and was willing to eat bad salary in the AHL. Even with their willingness to spend to the cap, and with their willingness to eat bad money in the AHL, and with the advantages that come with being original six, and on the east coast. Burke still couldn't turn that team into a winner.

Now let's talk about his drafting in TO.: NHL Players: 1: Nazem Kadri... that is all.

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#118 Chris
September 05 2013, 05:02PM
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Clay wrote:

This is BS

Brian's daughter lives here and is dating a friend of mine. She said her dad wants no part of hockey ops. He's been here several times to visit this summer. He is also close friends with Feaster. He hides in his vehicle when he comes because he doesnt want these rumors to start.

If I'm wrong I'll eat my hat.

I patienly await the hat eating video.

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#119 Hunter.murphy
September 05 2013, 06:02PM
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Chris wrote:

I patienly await the hat eating video.

Eat the hat! Eat the hat! Eat the hat! eat the hat!

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#120 Colin.S
September 05 2013, 08:43PM
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So here's how I see it. I don't mind the position and the reasoning behind it, I just extremely dislike the person they just put in it and what he said at the presser.

They just hired a new GM, Feaster will now become the lamest of lame duck GMs ever.

I think anyone following Flames on Twitter saw this: https://twitter.com/NHLFlames/status/375653797898375168 So Feaster can do anything unless Burke says it's oaky, so Feaster may as well be an assist GM at this point, do all the leg work and have a boss say "that's not who we want, or that's not how things will be done." And Burke made more comments on the scouting staff and all that, sounds like he's going to be putting in his own system and scouts, much like a GM.

This second worst thing at the presser was his comment on players sizes: https://twitter.com/NHLFlames/status/375653112960151553 Awesome, just want I want, a team full of Colton Orrs, Mike Browns and Leo Komarov's, I'm sure a team with players like would just intimidate everyone and just win games.......... Seriously, though, listening to Overtime and hearing all those people who can't form complete sentences and coherent thoughts, that's exactly what they want, no Poirier's, that sounds small and French, now that Kanzig guy, that's a guy Overtime callers can get behind, ugh.

But the absolute WORST thing at that presser came from Feaster if I recall correctly. They were talking about Burke's experience and the comment came up that the long rebuild will now "not take as long with his experience". A rebuild is not something you can magically shorten with making bad trades and acquiring bad cap space(something that was floated at the presser). You can't speed up a rebuild, it happens, you have to take it as it comes, draft the best possible players, make smart trades/signings.

Quite honestly this whole thing sounds like Edwards/King made this whole thing up to replace Feaster while not replacing Feaster cause I think for the most part the fan base likes Feaster, did good in the draft and a few trades and it'd be odd to fire and replace him so quickly. I think King/Edwards doesn't believe that feaster can have the team competitive in three years or so, so they brought in Burke who's team just made the playoffs(though I seriously DOUBT in a full season they would have been close) after his "rebuild". Feaster/King have never wanted a rebuild, I think Feasters "I guarantee playoffs" is proof enough of that.

Quite honestly, this may be one of the worst moves the Flames will ever make. While Feaster thinks an actual full rebuild will work, his new bosses marching orders don't sound like that. And guess who gets to make the final say..... Also Feaster is out of a job at the end of the season, 2 seasons TOPS!

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#121 Trav
September 05 2013, 10:40PM
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Just reheard the interview and Burke clearly referred to the team's cap pace as an asset suggesting hat they are not done... Take it for what it is worth. Interesting non the less.

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#122 Kypreos
September 05 2013, 11:47PM
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Clay wrote:

This is BS

Brian's daughter lives here and is dating a friend of mine. She said her dad wants no part of hockey ops. He's been here several times to visit this summer. He is also close friends with Feaster. He hides in his vehicle when he comes because he doesnt want these rumors to start.

If I'm wrong I'll eat my hat.

Hey Sub soil

I hope you don t burn your head without your hat!

Bahaha...

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#123 the-wolf
September 06 2013, 07:25AM
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A few things I take away from it:

1) A lot of moves as the team is reshaped in Burke's image.

2) If Feaster had done a good job this move never would've happened. Obviously, ownership expected more.

3) If ownership was willing to do a 5 year or so rebuild this move would've never happened. Obviously, ownership is gunning for a faster turnaround than down North.

4) Ownership finally figured neither they or KK know anything about hockey. While they deny they've ever 'vetoed' a move, the way Burke described the process made it clear how it works. Nothing has ever been 'veotoed' because technically it never got past the 'discussion' phase.

5) While Burke has his faults I have to admit, he's left teams in a better condition than they were in when he got there.

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#124 Parallex
September 06 2013, 10:18AM
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@the-wolf

"5) While Burke has his faults I have to admit, he's left teams in a better condition than they were in when he got there"

Not the Leafs. He left them in almost the same position they were when he arrived (with worse years in-between).

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#125 Scott in Grande Prairie
September 06 2013, 10:24AM
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I’m not sure if any of y’all are looking for the perspective of an Oiler fan in way-northern-Alberta, but I do think that this Burke fellow is a good hire for the Flames.

As of right now, he’s the smartest hockey-man the Flames have got on the payroll, by a country mile. I realize that’s a bit like saying he’s the World’s Tallest...Uh...Little Person, but what the heck.

I don’t really know what kind of direction Burke will take the Flames, but I do know that the direction will not include Jay Feaster. If any of you think that Jay Feaster will still be attending Flames’ staff meetings two years hence, then I’ve got some swampland in Florida to sell you.

And, I’ll be very surprised if Burke plans to emulate the Oilers’ template of draft-high-and-build-from-the-ground-up. Of course, I’m not sure if the Oilers are emulating the Oilers-template very well, right now, either, but suffice it to say that things are about to get a little more ...impatient...in Cowtown. If I were a Flames fan, I’m not sure where I’d be with that.

I mean, it took a good year-and-a-half to get Feaster’s mouth to spit out the word “Rebuilding” and it was generally viewed as the First Sign of Actual Progress in Calgary in eons.

But we digress.

In all seriousness, the Burke signing is a good one. If the resurgence of the Maple Leafs holds, Burke has to be given the credit for it because that team still has his fingerprints all over it. Plus, he’s won a Cup as a GM in Anaheim and it won the Cup because he went out and traded for Pronger. Heck, the reason why the Canucks are as good as they are is because Burke found a way to draft both of the sisters. Imagine where the Canuckleheads would be without them.

In other words, for all his bombast, bellicosity and belligerence, there’s a good hockey executive in there somewhere. It’s always fun to make fun of Brian Burke because I’m not sure how much of a caricature he is, but you also must respect a lot of his record.

My only other comment from yesterday: I wonder who the Flames will hire to stand between Burke and K-Lowe in the press box whenever the Battle of Alberta heats up? That little detente that Tambo negotiated between the two after Burke’s son died has always seemed tenuous, at best.

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#126 MarkGB
September 07 2013, 09:38AM
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Parallex wrote:

For real?

A: It's not Kessel vs. Seguin it's Kessel vs. Seguin & Hamelton & Knight. B: What good has Kessel done them? 3 out of 4 years that he's been there they missed the Playoffs (twice spectacularily missed). And the one time they've made it it was a fluke. C: Kessel is a free agent at the end of this upcoming season.

If anything the Kessel trade demonstrates how badly Burke misjudged the team. It's an awful trade. I would much rather have Seguin and Hamelton & Knight then Kessel given the above.

The Phaneaf trade is hardly a "homerun" as Phaneaf is both overpaid and overrated... true he got more back then he gave out but it's not ike what he got was at all spectacular.

Burke is not a good GM anymore (if he ever was). I think today marks subtraction by addition.

LOL. How was making the playoffs a "Fluke"? I see a lot of talent there with some of the league's best goaltending numbers.

Knight is a fringe prospect. stop overrating him. seguin was dumped @ age 21 by the Bruins for playing terrible and being a cancer.

4 years after the trade Kessel is BY FAR the best player in the deal. And he's still only 25.

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#127 MarkGB
September 07 2013, 09:41AM
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Parallex wrote:

"5) While Burke has his faults I have to admit, he's left teams in a better condition than they were in when he got there"

Not the Leafs. He left them in almost the same position they were when he arrived (with worse years in-between).

You have to be kidding me. You actually think Kessel, Lupul, Kadri, Bozak, JVR, Phaneuf, Rielly puts them anywhere in the same universe as they were before?

They were by far the NHL's biggest mess when he took over. Everything is better.

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#128 MarkGB
September 07 2013, 09:45AM
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Parallex wrote:

Even if you want to discount Seguin (and I don't, I think he's a future superstar) Seguin brought back Louie Erikson... a guy whose logged more points then Kessel during Kessel's tenure with the Leafs, add Hamelton & Knight onto that deal and it's easily still a huge steal for the Bruins.

You can't ask if Boston had Phil Kessel do they beat Chicago and win the cup this year... if they don't have Seguin and Hamelton do they even get there? If they have Kessel who do they jettison to make room for his salary? And without whomever they jettison to make room for his salary do they even win the cup against Vancouver? Nobody knows that stuff. Can't play the "what if" game... that way maddness lay.

Seriously, the Leafs fluked their way into the playoffs (and get bumped in the first round)last year, after Burke is turfed... so what. That doesn't somehow render the gangbang of failure that Burke was responsible for prior to last year. Burke decided to trade away multiple first round picks to acquire a 30 goal scorer for what turned out to be the 2nd worst team in the NHL (after adding said 30G scorer)... that is as strong an indictment against his ability to evaluate a hockey team as possible.

Yes, without Hamilton and Seguin they get there. In fact Seguin's disappearing act in the playoffs likely cost them a cup.

Kessel is a big-time playoff performer. Seguin is not. Hamilton did nothing in the playoffs. Talk about overrating them and underraring Kessel.

And Erikkson's numbers are worse than Kessel's. Your numbers are wrong.

Last two seasons Kessel is 4th in NHl scoring with Bozak as his centre. enough said.

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#129 Parallex
September 09 2013, 12:47PM
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MarkGB wrote:

You have to be kidding me. You actually think Kessel, Lupul, Kadri, Bozak, JVR, Phaneuf, Rielly puts them anywhere in the same universe as they were before?

They were by far the NHL's biggest mess when he took over. Everything is better.

I'm not kidding. Burke joined the Leafs in 2008... 06-07 Leafs: 82GP 40W 31L 11OTL 91P, Now compare that to where they were when he departed 82GP 35W 37L 10OTL 80P.

If you want to compare the year he came on (since he came on in november) 82GP 36W 35L 11OTL 83P... Still worse.

Burke did not make make the Leafs better.

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#130 Parallex
September 09 2013, 12:50PM
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@MarkGB

"How was making the playoffs a "Fluke"?"

By riding unsustainable percentages in a shortened season into a low seed playoff position.

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#131 Parallex
September 09 2013, 12:56PM
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MarkGB wrote:

Yes, without Hamilton and Seguin they get there. In fact Seguin's disappearing act in the playoffs likely cost them a cup.

Kessel is a big-time playoff performer. Seguin is not. Hamilton did nothing in the playoffs. Talk about overrating them and underraring Kessel.

And Erikkson's numbers are worse than Kessel's. Your numbers are wrong.

Last two seasons Kessel is 4th in NHl scoring with Bozak as his centre. enough said.

Okey for the time period in question they are are wrong but not by much 253P for Kessel vs. 236 for Erikkson. Marginal difference..

And with all due respect you do not know what would happen +/- a player unless you're some kind of mutant with the superpower to hop between alternate timelines. What you think is not what you know.

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