Health Makes All The Difference In Potential Cammalleri Deal

Steve Macfarlane
January 31 2014 10:41AM


(photo courtesy DealMango)

Sitting Michael Cammalleri out of Thursday night’s contest against the San Jose Sharks is an easy decision to defend.

He’d had one full practice following 18 days on the shelf with a concussion, and isn’t yet in the kind of game shape to help his team against one of the league’s top clubs.

But when you’re less than a year into a rebuild and that player is one of the most talked about on the trade market as a pending unrestricted free agent, you have to wonder how other teams are viewing the progress.

We all know acting GM Brian Burke is dangling Cammalleri, but the concussion has other teams leery of giving up too much for a potentially injured player. This puts the Flames in a precarious position. They want to showcase his talents on the ice for potential suitors in what is — thanks to the Olympic break and trade freeze that goes with it — a very small and rapidly closing window before the upcoming trade deadline. At the same time, they don’t want anything else to happen to the one player they have who can fetch a decent return on the trade market.

By announcing he’s ready to play, and then holding him out of the lineup for an extra couple of days of conditioning, the message is sent to NHL GMs that they have nothing to worry about if they’re ready to pull the trigger now.

But most will want to see it for themselves on the ice. Until Cammalleri plays, he could be considered a risk.

Or at least that’s the way opponents can play it during negotiations.

What is Cammalleri’s value? It’s a variable rate of return

“If his health is unknown at the trade deadline, then I would say he becomes a secondary player on the trade market and a team takes a chance only if they have other pieces in place or they have missed out entirely on the primary market,” says one former NHL executive who figures Cammalleri’s value has taken a hit. 

Another former GM figures teams could get creative in what they offer based on the number of games they get out of Cammalleri through the rest of the regular season and the playoffs.

For example, if the offer is a prospect and a pick, the round could be modified based on Cammalleri’s health. If he suits up (regardless of contribution) for all the remaining games and the playoffs, the pick could be a first-rounder. If he misses more than an ‘X’ number of games, it could be downgraded to a second.

Another area of negotiation teams could ask for more flexibility is salary cap consideration.

“A team may request that the Flames take back a portion of his salary,” says the executive.

His head is in the right place...

Cammalleri is now targeting Saturday night’s clash against the Minnesota Wild as his return date, and head coach Bob Hartley said Thursday he expects big things from his veteran winger.

“I think he’s going to be flying Saturday,” the coach told reporters after explaining the last-minute decision to sit Cammalleri was made to keep consistent with the culture they are trying to build in having the most-prepared guys going out there to try and win every game.

The commodity in question is also best served on a personal level to make sure that when he comes back, he’s in the best possible situation to contribute. His short and long-term future depends on how he plays for the balance of the season. Cammalleri says he’s healthy and that the scratch is not a setback on the concussion front. That bodes well for whichever team lands him.

...But where’s his heart?

Of course, we’re assuming two things here. One, that the Flames don’t want to keep Cammalleri around. And two, that Cammalleri has no intention of staying on as part of the rebuild even if they do want him.

Don’t completely discount the second idea. The Flames are again going to have a fairly high draft pick, and have some young prospects they like in the pipeline as well as an impressive 19-year-old rookie already playing. If Burke stays true to his business model of the past, he will likely try to swing a big deal or two for a young but proven player that will immediately help. You can be sure he’s not planning on making this a terribly long rebuilding process (whether or not you agree with that method is another story altogether.)

“I don’t know what’s going to happen,” Cammalleri fibbed. “Brian has been really good with me. We’ve had a lot of communication, as far as talking about some different things. I’m not able to speculate on what may or may not happen yet, but as far as that goes.”

As a 31-year-old UFA to be, he will have his choice of landing spots this summer for the second time in five years. He chose the Eastern Conference the last time, and for family reasons that were likely only enhanced by the recent death of his grandfather, no one would be surprised if he made a similar decision in order to be close to home again.

No one could fault him for that, either.

3d3f7758adff5b9b9ead81bf00567345
Former Calgary Sun Flames beat writer who has covered the team for a decade. Opinionated but reasonable, except when it comes to buffets. Follow him on Twitter at @MacfarlaneHKY
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#1 Quintana
January 31 2014, 08:37PM
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clyde wrote:

So, Calgary trades an established top 2 def who was considered for the Olympic team plus a young center just establishing himself as a 2-way force for a top 5 draft in a weak year and a defensive prospect who is being described as someone with very little as far as hockey sense? You realize that Feaster is no longer the gm right?

Backlund a 2-way force? Please.........Gagner>Backlund sorry for break it to you. The flames are in a rebuild mode so would be smart trade Gio for picks, if Mac -T is serious to trade a possible top 2 pick and a prospect like Kefblom for Giordano that would be a good trade for both teams. Nurse? Hes not going anywhere.

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#2 Quintana
January 31 2014, 10:32PM
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clyde wrote:

Gagner has always been given top 6 minutes and pp time. He is sitting at 23 points and a -18. Backlund just recently started to get top 6 minutes and some pp time. He is at 25 points and is -6 and plays a 200 foot game. One player is improving and the other seems to be either stalled or getting worse. They both are on struggling teams btw

That doesn't my question...........You forgot to mention that Gagner had a broken jaw and was sidelined for 10 games. Since when Gagner get top 6 minutes? Yes its true, he's not having a good year but he's a 40 point player IMO in Edmonton,don't you get it? Are you saying that Backlund never had the chance to play in the Flames top line? C'mon........

Some Flames fan here were suggesting Rex.... if Eberle + 1st 2014+1st 2015 was enough for Giordano...........................Are you guys Nuts? I mean Giordano is a heck of Dfenceman but he's not Weber or PK.....just stop the nonsense.

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#3 lionlager
January 31 2014, 11:49AM
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I wonder if there's any chance that Burke can use his old connections and pull of a Cammi + something for Kadri. Cammi's a Toronto guy and maybe the type of proven scorer that the Leafs might need. He's another center, but it could be something.

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#4 BurningSensation
January 31 2014, 02:27PM
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RexLibris wrote:

The gulf between Giordano and Wideman is significant.

MacTavish might (emphasis there) consider giving up a 2nd or 3rd overall for Giordano. Doubtful, but anything is possible.

Not for Wideman.

I don't think you'll see any trades between the Flames and Oilers involving 1st round picks unless it is involving significant assets, ie: the Flames get the Oilers' 1st round pick and a developing prospect for Brodie or Backlund and a 2nd round pick.

The value on top three picks is pretty high, especially in a year like this where you've got a cluster of decent prospects 1 through 5.

I think this is about right. Wideman wouldn't be attractive to the Oilers, but Giordano might be.

Unfortunately, this year is a pretty weak year for draft picks. Consider that Ekblad, who could go #1, is rated behind Darnell Nurse, the 7th overall pick from last years draft, by Corey Pronman.

As for fantasy trades with the Oilers;

----> Edm: Giordano-D, Backlund-C, Cgy's 2nd

---> Cgy: Nurse-D, Edm's 1st

They get a two-way center who can grow with their core, and a 1st pairing defenseman with the Lowetidian 'wide range of tools', without taking anything away from their core.

Calgary would get a potential blueline stud in Nurse (Truculence!) who is still a couple of years away from seriously contributing, and a 2nd high pick in a weak draft. (and with the two picks we select Ekblad/Reinhart #2, and Dal Colle #3). It would also set us up for a huge nose-dive next year as our best possession forward, and top defender would be gone, and we would have another brace of youngsters to inject into the lineup (Gaudreau, Poirier, Klimchuk, Wotherspoon, Seiloff, etc.), making our odds at getting Connor 'hockey saviour' McDavid much better.

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#5 Quintana
January 31 2014, 09:54PM
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BurningSensation wrote:

"Gagner>Backlund sorry for break it to you"

I laughed myself into a spit take reading that. Gagner is so good as a center that Edmonton, a team with a screaming need for a 2nd line pivot, is now converting him to the wing.

Gagner is just Robbie Schremp II but without all the falling down.

Really? Is Backlund a plus 40 points player? Please..... I'm not trolling here but c'mon........It's true Edmonton is trying to trade him, but its because the Oilers have too many small players and needs to get bigger in their Top 6. Please Can you tell me how Backlund is an upgrade over Gagner? Gagner is a 4 year +40 points playing in a terrible team.

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#6 Quintana
January 31 2014, 10:57PM
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Steve wrote:

@Quintana

No comparison. Gagne is a defensive liability who after how many years in the league, still has to be sheltered against other teams weaker lines and now plays on the wing bc he cannot handle centre responsibilities or Win faceoffs!!

Backlund on the other hand plays against other teams Top lines as he's a defensive forward, wins draws against tougher centres and is now staying healthy which is allowing him to find a complete game...as well has more points the gagne this year! Which is the year that counts as your discussing current comparisons, not 3 yrs ago when you may have had a case to make.

U clearly only know to look at a stats sheet but your avoiding 1 stat which is pretty important, plus/minus! Gagne is -18 against 3rd line opposition. Take a read on ur oilersnation page and u will see that even your fellow fans are privy to this knowledge. It's no secret.

Did I say that Gagner is having a year off? He just had a broken jaw for loud sake!!! He was on pace for 68 points in 82 games the lockout year (last year) Don't care about plus minus (Ovechkin is -17) Backlund has been in the league for what? 5 years? Never had 30 points........Go figure

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#7 lionlager
January 31 2014, 01:01PM
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@piscera.infada

Makes sense. The trashes on that comment means that people agree... I mean Kadri's not my favorite player either, but it's crazy to think that he's not a huge upgrade on Cammi for the Flames...

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#8 BurningSensation
January 31 2014, 09:11PM
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clyde wrote:

So, Calgary trades an established top 2 def who was considered for the Olympic team plus a young center just establishing himself as a 2-way force for a top 5 draft in a weak year and a defensive prospect who is being described as someone with very little as far as hockey sense? You realize that Feaster is no longer the gm right?

Yes. But I'll rephrase it so it is easier to understand;

Calgary trades an established top 2 defenseman in his prime who has hit his ceiling, and who would age out of his prime before the Flames are competitive for the Cup with the new core, and, a young two-way center who maxes out as a below average 2nd line C (and a 2nd rnd pick).

In return, Calgary gets two of the toughest and most important commodities for a rebuilding team to acquire; a top 3 pick, and a young defender with size, mobility and offensive upside - both of whom would seamlessly join the group of young talent coming up the pipeline.

Now look at the big picture. A perennially Cup competitive team should have the following;

4 forwards who are above average or elite. Preferably, 2 of them are Centers (Chicago notably has three wingers; Kane, Hossa and Sharp and just Toews at C - necessitating a constant search for a long term #2, but I digress).

At least one above average or elite D man (the Boston model), but preferably 2 (Chicago).

A league average or better goaltender.

(Note: this is why Edmonton is currently terrible. They have; 4 forwards, Eberle, The Nuge, Hall and Yakupov - and they have the Chcago problem where only one is a C), but no defenders who are above average (at east not until J.Schutz, Nurse, Klefbom and Marincin add 2-3 more years), and until they traded for Scrivens they didn't have a league average goaltender).

If Calgary made the deal I propose, it would make a potential core;

Brodie Monahan Baertschi Gaudreau Poirier Klimchuk Gillies Seiloff Nurse Reinhart or Ekblad (pick #2) Bennett or Dal Colle (pick #3)

All of whom will be within 5 years of each other (or thereabouts).

Nurse and the 1st rnd pick is a more than fair return for Gio and Backs.

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#9 RexLibris
January 31 2014, 02:00PM
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@Bean-counting cowboy

The gulf between Giordano and Wideman is significant.

MacTavish might (emphasis there) consider giving up a 2nd or 3rd overall for Giordano. Doubtful, but anything is possible.

Not for Wideman.

I don't think you'll see any trades between the Flames and Oilers involving 1st round picks unless it is involving significant assets, ie: the Flames get the Oilers' 1st round pick and a developing prospect for Brodie or Backlund and a 2nd round pick.

The value on top three picks is pretty high, especially in a year like this where you've got a cluster of decent prospects 1 through 5.

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#10 BurningSensation
January 31 2014, 03:41PM
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clyde wrote:

Nurse is being described as more a Keaton Ellerby ( physical tools, lack of game sense) than a stud. No thanks to that one.

Nurse has been destroying it this year. He's now a 1st unit PP guy, and is filling out his considerable frame.

Ellerby's best junior year he had 2g,23a, for 25 points (and a century+ PIM). Nurse is going to obliterate those numbers. Last year he had 40points in some 60 games, and this year already has that 40points in just 49 games. Size, speed, offensive ability, he could be a lowercase Scott Stevens. I would have exactly ZERO problems moving Giordano and Backlund to get him and the Oilers first

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#11 Where.is.ville?
January 31 2014, 03:32PM
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Given Cammalleri's output in recent years I cannot see the Flames getting much for him in a trade. I bet he resigns with the Flames for a lot less than he is making now!

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#12 RexLibris
January 31 2014, 03:59PM
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@BurningSensation

Nurse is one heck of a prospect.

I don't see the Oilers moving him, though unless it is part of a package for a defender in a different weight class than Giordano.

I think they like the prospect of Klefbom and Nurse together.

Marincin and Petry are turning into a very good 2nd pairing and Ference and J. Schultz is a good 3rd pairing. You've still got Gernat, Musil, Fedun and Simpson to deal with and develop so in two years' time the blueline could become a touch bottlenecked, barring injuries and trades.

If the Flames want to make a deal for a young defender, go for Kulikov.

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#13 negrilcowboy
January 31 2014, 07:47PM
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Kent Wilson wrote:

17 points in 26 games. A solid "meh".

when does the meh morph into a duh?

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#14 Baalzamon
January 31 2014, 01:08PM
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If Cammalleri is open to re-signing and the Flames can't find a satisfactory return for him at this deadline, they should just extend him and do it all again next year.

One year at 6. Do you think Cammy accepts?

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#15 Bean-counting cowboy
January 31 2014, 01:44PM
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The Oilers Nation article on Gio got me thinking maybe we could dupe McTavish into taking Wideman, as he would likely overpay.

So trade Cammy (keep 1/2 salary) to Anaheim for Ottawa's 1st round pick and + if you can get it.

Then trade Wideman (retain 1/2 salary for cap floor reasons) + Ottawa's 1st round pick to the Oil in exchange for their 1st round pick in 2014 and + if you can get it.

We have a huge shot at winning the lottery with the 2nd place and 3rd place picks (or better if Buff gets on a roll). Burke takes his lovechild Ekblad with 1st overall and whomever of Reinhart and Bennett is left over with the 3rd pick comes our way as well!

Sign a top 4 D-man to replace Wides in the offseason to get to the cap floor and in 1 to 3 years, Ekblad & Reinhart/Bennett are making an impact on the team.

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#16 Stubblejumper
January 31 2014, 03:55PM
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@BurningSensation

BurningSensation..there's some good logic for both parties in your proposed trade with the Oil.

The essence of a good deal is where both sides win..else why make the deal if yer gonna get hosed.

Oil need to move forward up the standings next year..Gio and Backs would them immeasurably (Gio now considered a top 10-15 defender league-wide).

Flames need another year to stockpile talent aged a couple years younger than the Oil to then spring forward 2 years from now like Colorado and Tampa, and like Chicago did ~6 years ago.

Also encompasses a nice forward planning strategy for the 2015 draft which is critical.

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#17 Bruins
January 31 2014, 04:44PM
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I never hear anything about Jankowski...how is he doing?

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#18 BurningSensation
January 31 2014, 06:39PM
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RexLibris wrote:

Nurse is one heck of a prospect.

I don't see the Oilers moving him, though unless it is part of a package for a defender in a different weight class than Giordano.

I think they like the prospect of Klefbom and Nurse together.

Marincin and Petry are turning into a very good 2nd pairing and Ference and J. Schultz is a good 3rd pairing. You've still got Gernat, Musil, Fedun and Simpson to deal with and develop so in two years' time the blueline could become a touch bottlenecked, barring injuries and trades.

If the Flames want to make a deal for a young defender, go for Kulikov.

The thinking is pretty straight forward, Nurse projects to be a very nice D-man, but Giordano gives them a top pairing defender of a reasonable age, and at a reasonable cap-hit = right now. Ditto for the Backlund portion - he arrives essentially fully developed defensively, and with some more room to grow in the offensive zone.

As a 2nd line C (behind The Nuge, and ahead of Gordon) he would slot perfectly, and could do all the heavy lifting that Gagner clearly cannot.

If the Oilers are going to wait for Nurse/Kleffbom to become top pairing guys before they declare their rebuild 'over', the Oilers could be waiting a few more years.

For Calgary, the return is pretty sweet. A top 3 pick (albeit in a weak draft), and a future stud D-man, all timed to crater the team just in time to draft McDavid.

As for the other items you mentioned;

Marincin and Petry are indeed turning into a decent pairing, but on any other team in the league (seriously, ANY OTHER TEAM), they would be the 2nd or 3rd pair, not the first. Petry is just Gilbert 2.0. but Marincin has the chance to be something special. Guys who are 6'5"+ and can skate and handle the puck are rare. J.Schultz will one day emerge as the Oilers version of Mike Green, but he is just awful in his own zone. I am not convinced Andrew Ference is still a legit top 4 defenseman.

I hate to break this to you, but Musil will be in the KHL before too long. He just cannot get around the rink fast enough to be an NHL defender. Gernat and Simpson are both nice looking prospects. If Simpson's offense can translate to the NHL he might be a 2nd pairing guy. Gernat needs to eat a sandwhich.

I love Kulikov's game, and hope the Flames take a shot at him.

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#19 aloudoun
January 31 2014, 01:25PM
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May as well get the ball rolling... What about Cammy to Kings for 2nd round pick and Toffoli. We keep 1/2 Cammys salary.

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#20 Bean-counting cowboy
January 31 2014, 02:35PM
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@RexLibris

c'mon Rex I am hoping Mac T will overpay. The pressure to start getting wins, mixed with weak draft, etc. Maybe we'll throw in Backlund instead of Ottawa's first rounder. This is a negotiation after all.

Don't ruin my fantasies on a Friday please!

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#21 Kent Wilson
January 31 2014, 06:47PM
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@Bruins

17 points in 26 games. A solid "meh".

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#22 MontanaMan
January 31 2014, 07:46PM
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Sutter is a very loyal coach - my pick for Cammy is LA. Would be interesting if the deal was made with Anaheim that included one of their surplus goalies. The worst thing that can happen is that the Flames resign Cammy. They need to move him and get a great asset or first rounder.

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#23 clyde
January 31 2014, 08:08PM
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BurningSensation wrote:

The thinking is pretty straight forward, Nurse projects to be a very nice D-man, but Giordano gives them a top pairing defender of a reasonable age, and at a reasonable cap-hit = right now. Ditto for the Backlund portion - he arrives essentially fully developed defensively, and with some more room to grow in the offensive zone.

As a 2nd line C (behind The Nuge, and ahead of Gordon) he would slot perfectly, and could do all the heavy lifting that Gagner clearly cannot.

If the Oilers are going to wait for Nurse/Kleffbom to become top pairing guys before they declare their rebuild 'over', the Oilers could be waiting a few more years.

For Calgary, the return is pretty sweet. A top 3 pick (albeit in a weak draft), and a future stud D-man, all timed to crater the team just in time to draft McDavid.

As for the other items you mentioned;

Marincin and Petry are indeed turning into a decent pairing, but on any other team in the league (seriously, ANY OTHER TEAM), they would be the 2nd or 3rd pair, not the first. Petry is just Gilbert 2.0. but Marincin has the chance to be something special. Guys who are 6'5"+ and can skate and handle the puck are rare. J.Schultz will one day emerge as the Oilers version of Mike Green, but he is just awful in his own zone. I am not convinced Andrew Ference is still a legit top 4 defenseman.

I hate to break this to you, but Musil will be in the KHL before too long. He just cannot get around the rink fast enough to be an NHL defender. Gernat and Simpson are both nice looking prospects. If Simpson's offense can translate to the NHL he might be a 2nd pairing guy. Gernat needs to eat a sandwhich.

I love Kulikov's game, and hope the Flames take a shot at him.

So, Calgary trades an established top 2 def who was considered for the Olympic team plus a young center just establishing himself as a 2-way force for a top 5 draft in a weak year and a defensive prospect who is being described as someone with very little as far as hockey sense? You realize that Feaster is no longer the gm right?

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#24 clyde
January 31 2014, 10:11PM
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Quintana wrote:

Really? Is Backlund a plus 40 points player? Please..... I'm not trolling here but c'mon........It's true Edmonton is trying to trade him, but its because the Oilers have too many small players and needs to get bigger in their Top 6. Please Can you tell me how Backlund is an upgrade over Gagner? Gagner is a 4 year +40 points playing in a terrible team.

Gagner has always been given top 6 minutes and pp time. He is sitting at 23 points and a -18. Backlund just recently started to get top 6 minutes and some pp time. He is at 25 points and is -6 and plays a 200 foot game. One player is improving and the other seems to be either stalled or getting worse. They both are on struggling teams btw

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#25 ChinookArch
January 31 2014, 12:11PM
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The first thing I thought of when they put him back on the shelf was " That's not good. If the Flames want to trade him, his stock just dropped". If he doesn't return before the Olympic break, it's going to be worse.

On a positive note: LA might be a good fit for him. Darryl likes him, he's familiar with the environment and they need more depth scoring. Then again, so do 28 other teams.

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#26 seve927
January 31 2014, 01:34PM
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aloudoun wrote:

May as well get the ball rolling... What about Cammy to Kings for 2nd round pick and Toffoli. We keep 1/2 Cammys salary.

You drive a hard bargain Mr. Lombardi.

Done. Where do I sign?

BB

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#27 aloudoun
January 31 2014, 01:40PM
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Probably a little to good on the Flames side but I'm just throwing out scenarios. I do like Ottawas first round pick out of Anaheim. Although I think the Ducks would want to ship out their first before they ship out that one.

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#28 Frank Miron
January 31 2014, 03:35PM
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The Montreal Canadiens would want him back (they need a goal scorer real bad !) so i would deal him for big and promising defensement Jarred Tinordi anytime...

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#29 RexLibris
January 31 2014, 03:48PM
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suba steve wrote:

So you're saying the proposed (in the previous article's comments) deal of Gio for Eberle + Oil 2014 first + Oil 2015 first is not a deal you would endorse?:)

I say that proposal is just nuts, what say you, Rex?

Absolutely.

Eberle is bound to regress and that contract is a boat anchor.

Oilers better sweeten the pot with Marincin and Chase to boot.

;)

The funny thing is there are overlapping areas of need between these two clubs.

The Oilers desperately need a 1D (Brodie) and a 2C (Backlund).

The Flames need prospect depth and good draft picks.

The assets line up but the organizational interests are ever so slightly out of alignment that I don't see anything coming of it.

The Flames value those assets listed above too much to part with and the Oilers management know that they can't afford to part with a 1st round pick in the top five, especially if that pick can potentially provide you with either a top-rated defender or a second-line center with size.

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#30 negrilcowboy
January 31 2014, 03:52PM
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BurningSensation wrote:

I think this is about right. Wideman wouldn't be attractive to the Oilers, but Giordano might be.

Unfortunately, this year is a pretty weak year for draft picks. Consider that Ekblad, who could go #1, is rated behind Darnell Nurse, the 7th overall pick from last years draft, by Corey Pronman.

As for fantasy trades with the Oilers;

----> Edm: Giordano-D, Backlund-C, Cgy's 2nd

---> Cgy: Nurse-D, Edm's 1st

They get a two-way center who can grow with their core, and a 1st pairing defenseman with the Lowetidian 'wide range of tools', without taking anything away from their core.

Calgary would get a potential blueline stud in Nurse (Truculence!) who is still a couple of years away from seriously contributing, and a 2nd high pick in a weak draft. (and with the two picks we select Ekblad/Reinhart #2, and Dal Colle #3). It would also set us up for a huge nose-dive next year as our best possession forward, and top defender would be gone, and we would have another brace of youngsters to inject into the lineup (Gaudreau, Poirier, Klimchuk, Wotherspoon, Seiloff, etc.), making our odds at getting Connor 'hockey saviour' McDavid much better.

nurse isnt exactly dominating the ohl at the current time. watched the hounds spits game and would take koekoek anyday of the weel over darnell.

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#31 RexLibris
January 31 2014, 03:55PM
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Bean-counting cowboy wrote:

c'mon Rex I am hoping Mac T will overpay. The pressure to start getting wins, mixed with weak draft, etc. Maybe we'll throw in Backlund instead of Ottawa's first rounder. This is a negotiation after all.

Don't ruin my fantasies on a Friday please!

In the spirit of negotiation then...

How about you retain all of Wideman's salary...and the player and the Oilers will retain the pick.

You can send Backlund though. Red Arrow or Westjet, take your pick.

;)

Seriously though, MacTavish has probably had hundreds of calls starting back in November and into December from friendly GMs offering to "help him out".

He's made some minor deals but he knows that his next opportunity to mix things up will begin at the draft.

My guess is he moves Gagner at the draft before his NTC kicks in and then goes after the best FA goalie to play with Scrivens and either tries to sign a decent defenseman (Nikitin and Orpik have come up in discussion) or tries to trade for someone like Erhoff.

No sense in making deals when the whole world knows you're down. As LT says, keep your powder dry.

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#32 BurningSensation
January 31 2014, 09:18PM
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@Quintana

"Gagner>Backlund sorry for break it to you"

I laughed myself into a spit take reading that. Gagner is so good as a center that Edmonton, a team with a screaming need for a 2nd line pivot, is now converting him to the wing.

Gagner is just Robbie Schremp II but without all the falling down.

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#33 clyde
January 31 2014, 09:28PM
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BurningSensation wrote:

Yes. But I'll rephrase it so it is easier to understand;

Calgary trades an established top 2 defenseman in his prime who has hit his ceiling, and who would age out of his prime before the Flames are competitive for the Cup with the new core, and, a young two-way center who maxes out as a below average 2nd line C (and a 2nd rnd pick).

In return, Calgary gets two of the toughest and most important commodities for a rebuilding team to acquire; a top 3 pick, and a young defender with size, mobility and offensive upside - both of whom would seamlessly join the group of young talent coming up the pipeline.

Now look at the big picture. A perennially Cup competitive team should have the following;

4 forwards who are above average or elite. Preferably, 2 of them are Centers (Chicago notably has three wingers; Kane, Hossa and Sharp and just Toews at C - necessitating a constant search for a long term #2, but I digress).

At least one above average or elite D man (the Boston model), but preferably 2 (Chicago).

A league average or better goaltender.

(Note: this is why Edmonton is currently terrible. They have; 4 forwards, Eberle, The Nuge, Hall and Yakupov - and they have the Chcago problem where only one is a C), but no defenders who are above average (at east not until J.Schutz, Nurse, Klefbom and Marincin add 2-3 more years), and until they traded for Scrivens they didn't have a league average goaltender).

If Calgary made the deal I propose, it would make a potential core;

Brodie Monahan Baertschi Gaudreau Poirier Klimchuk Gillies Seiloff Nurse Reinhart or Ekblad (pick #2) Bennett or Dal Colle (pick #3)

All of whom will be within 5 years of each other (or thereabouts).

Nurse and the 1st rnd pick is a more than fair return for Gio and Backs.

I will rephrase it so you understand. The draft is weak and Nurse is being described as a dud. If we trade Gio and Backlund it will be for much more than that.

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#34 Nick24
January 31 2014, 09:34PM
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@negrilcowboy

So would we be looking for a second and Kreider? I could live with that. Or JT Miller and a first? Now that I think about it, I also like that John Moore guy.

I've also been thinking about John Merrill out of New Jersey, but I don't know how keen they'd be to give up Merrill.

Any Thoughts?

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#35 Steve
January 31 2014, 10:23PM
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@Quintana

No comparison. Gagne is a defensive liability who after how many years in the league, still has to be sheltered against other teams weaker lines and now plays on the wing bc he cannot handle centre responsibilities or Win faceoffs!!

Backlund on the other hand plays against other teams Top lines as he's a defensive forward, wins draws against tougher centres and is now staying healthy which is allowing him to find a complete game...as well has more points the gagne this year! Which is the year that counts as your discussing current comparisons, not 3 yrs ago when you may have had a case to make.

U clearly only know to look at a stats sheet but your avoiding 1 stat which is pretty important, plus/minus! Gagne is -18 against 3rd line opposition. Take a read on ur oilersnation page and u will see that even your fellow fans are privy to this knowledge. It's no secret.

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#36 clyde
January 31 2014, 10:37PM
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Quintana wrote:

That doesn't my question...........You forgot to mention that Gagner had a broken jaw and was sidelined for 10 games. Since when Gagner get top 6 minutes? Yes its true, he's not having a good year but he's a 40 point player IMO in Edmonton,don't you get it? Are you saying that Backlund never had the chance to play in the Flames top line? C'mon........

Some Flames fan here were suggesting Rex.... if Eberle + 1st 2014+1st 2015 was enough for Giordano...........................Are you guys Nuts? I mean Giordano is a heck of Dfenceman but he's not Weber or PK.....just stop the nonsense.

Gagner has been given top 6 minutes every year in Edmonton. If you check Backlund's stats, versus Gagner's you will notice a significant difference in time on ice as well as pp time until recently. Take a look at Backlund's linemates up until about the last month - 6 weeks and compare them with Gagner's. I like Brian Mcgratten but I don't think he was helping out Backlund's stats much?

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#37 prendrefeu
January 31 2014, 11:50PM
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So many "let me rephrase that for you" statements, yet so little clarity. I can see an English teacher breaking out the red pen and writing "AWK" in the margins.

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#38 herringchoker
February 01 2014, 05:52AM
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Listen guys, I'm a huge flames fan. I've been watching Backlund and Gio their whole careers. These two guys are the fuel in the flames fire. There's a hell of a lot more to a team then numbers alone. Backlund in particular is getting better. You notice his effort every game. If he played with a true finisher you'd see his numbers double. Backlund and Gio are the guys you want to teach your kids what heart really is. The trade ideas people are throwing around are insanely bad trades for the Flames.

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#39 coachedpotatoe
February 01 2014, 07:39AM
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coachedpotatoe wrote:

Heat beat Hamilton 6-0, Knight 2g and 1a,BJones 2g, Granlund 1g,1a, Joorish 1g, Rhino 2a, and Sven 1a. I forgot to see who got the shutout. BC beats Providence 2-0, Johnny G 1g, Arnold 1a.

For me to trade Gio it would tke a kings ransom so he is almost an untouchable. Same goes for TJB, there are not many 24 year dmen better. Monahan is key to the forwards and the way Backs is playing right now I would think he is pretty safe.

Personally I would like to see them get Russell(3x$3m) locked up and both TJB(6@$4.5m) and Backs(4@$4m) extended.

This article was about the future of Cammi and was a good piece. His value on the trade market seems to have gone down; injuries and less production than hoped for however the teams mentioned LA, Anahiem and NYR are all good locations who could use him. Hopefully he is in the lineup tonight and has a good game.

So I finished my homework and it was Ortio with the shutout, interesting to Roy as the backup and not McD.

I have had a pretty good giggle at all of the trade talk that might happen between Calgary and Edmonton; truth is if we took the best from both teams as they sit right now we would be a playoff team and a possible cup contender. But as it stands both teams had better be about adding to their depth and talent level via drafts(and development) and free agency. Neither team will become a playoff contender by just adding one piece.

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#40 piscera.infada
January 31 2014, 11:52AM
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@lionlager

Limited no-trade. I heard an interview with him recently where he said he didn't want to play in Toronto, because he "enjoys going home, because it's home and if he played there it would ruin being home". I'm sure you could change his mind on that, but it's something.

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#41 M Cardoza
January 31 2014, 12:04PM
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If Burke can somehow get anaheims first round pick they got from Ottawa I would be ecstatic.

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#42 piscera.infada
January 31 2014, 12:13PM
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@ChinookArch

Correction: LA needs scoring.

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#43 mattyc
January 31 2014, 01:17PM
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@Baalzamon

I don't know why he'd go for one year. He's what - 30? He'll probably get 5 year offers for 5-6 million on the open market this summer. Plus some stability, and 25-30million of guaranteed money.

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#44 cgyokgn
January 31 2014, 02:02PM
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I thought of Cammy to LA as well. Does he still have a house there? They definitely need the scoring, although not sure he fits their usual preference for large bodies. They also desperately need help with their power play which is 27th in the league.

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#45 suba steve
January 31 2014, 02:22PM
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@RexLibris

So you're saying the proposed (in the previous article's comments) deal of Gio for Eberle + Oil 2014 first + Oil 2015 first is not a deal you would endorse?:)

I say that proposal is just nuts, what say you, Rex?

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#46 clyde
January 31 2014, 03:11PM
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BurningSensation wrote:

I think this is about right. Wideman wouldn't be attractive to the Oilers, but Giordano might be.

Unfortunately, this year is a pretty weak year for draft picks. Consider that Ekblad, who could go #1, is rated behind Darnell Nurse, the 7th overall pick from last years draft, by Corey Pronman.

As for fantasy trades with the Oilers;

----> Edm: Giordano-D, Backlund-C, Cgy's 2nd

---> Cgy: Nurse-D, Edm's 1st

They get a two-way center who can grow with their core, and a 1st pairing defenseman with the Lowetidian 'wide range of tools', without taking anything away from their core.

Calgary would get a potential blueline stud in Nurse (Truculence!) who is still a couple of years away from seriously contributing, and a 2nd high pick in a weak draft. (and with the two picks we select Ekblad/Reinhart #2, and Dal Colle #3). It would also set us up for a huge nose-dive next year as our best possession forward, and top defender would be gone, and we would have another brace of youngsters to inject into the lineup (Gaudreau, Poirier, Klimchuk, Wotherspoon, Seiloff, etc.), making our odds at getting Connor 'hockey saviour' McDavid much better.

Nurse is being described as more a Keaton Ellerby ( physical tools, lack of game sense) than a stud. No thanks to that one.

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#47 sb
January 31 2014, 03:19PM
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Why do you want to have a fantasy with the Oilers!!. The only way we flame fans want to help the Oilers with some of our good guys is that both the flames and oilers are back to the 80s level and real have the real "Battle of Alberta" again.

Do you really think BB cares about making stupid trades with the Oilers?? He has better connections out there with potenial better deals.

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#48 negrilcowboy
January 31 2014, 03:56PM
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BurningSensation wrote:

Nurse has been destroying it this year. He's now a 1st unit PP guy, and is filling out his considerable frame.

Ellerby's best junior year he had 2g,23a, for 25 points (and a century+ PIM). Nurse is going to obliterate those numbers. Last year he had 40points in some 60 games, and this year already has that 40points in just 49 games. Size, speed, offensive ability, he could be a lowercase Scott Stevens. I would have exactly ZERO problems moving Giordano and Backlund to get him and the Oilers first

i have watched alot of nurse this season, he is closer to ellerby than scott stevens. nurse is not dominating what so ever, in fact he is developing alot of bad habits, what i notice most is his lack of positioning.

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#49 negrilcowboy
January 31 2014, 03:58PM
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cammy to the rangers, slats will overpay.

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#50 Stubblejumper
January 31 2014, 04:11PM
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If it were down to 2 teams bidding on Cammy Anaheim likely represents a much better opportunity than LA.

Very unlikely LA would give Toffoli from their active lineup plus their 1st (24-27 overall) for the rental Cammy. They don't have much else in their prospect pool (ranked 26th according to HP)

However Anaheim could provide Ottawa's 1st plus 2 or 3 prospect options e.g. Shea Theodore D (e.g. 1st powerplay QB) OR RW Rackell/Noesen/Etem (all with top 6 potential).

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