Post-Game: Flames Beat Oil, Give Atomic Wedgies, Steal Lunch Money

Taylor McKee
March 23 2014 12:25AM

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This night of nights, this game of games, is the sweetest of victories for your fightin' Flames as it comes against our perennially pathetic polar ... poo-heads from the North. It's not that the Flames won big, in Edmonton, it's that the game was just so fun to watch for so many different reasons. Including a Taylor Hall/Dallas Eakins "mis-communication" which looked an awful lot like a cat fight. 

The Flames turned the second period into a highlight package and scored EIGHT TIMES. IN ONE GAME. AGAINST THE OILERS. One of them by Kevin Westgarth, the Brick Tamland of hockey. Drink it in Flames fans, this game is ties the largest margin of victory in a BOA and this may have been the most unexpected of Flames big wins in Edmonton. We can worry about the draft lottery and tanking and the rebuild tomorrow. For right now, this feels great.   

Best game ever.

Also, Matt Stajan melted some hearts with a penalty shot goal, Read all about it after the jump  

GAME SUMMARY


Right off the bat, Kevin Westgarth, whom was dressed tonight for reasons I do not understand, took a roughing penalty two minutes into the game. On that power-play, Jeff Petry scored on a point shot with Ryan Jones parked directly in front of him without a stick. Though the difference between Jones with a stick and without a stick are frankly negligible.  

After the 1-0 goal, Westgarth decided to correct his error by fighting Luke Gadzic, the same guy who knocked him out in a scary incident. Westgarth tried to protect himself throughout the majority of the scrap and was able to hold his own for the most part. Basically, who cares? Westgarth fighting a fellow goon seems inconsequential to me but that hardly seems important now doesn't it? I won't complain about anything else from this point on I promise.

Because after that, things were all smiles in Flameland. T.J Brodie, who rules, started a breakout and the puck found Mark Giordano who absolutely blasted one past Fasth and tied the game at 1. The game was tied at one heading into the second period. All things considered, the game was quite even going into the room, the Flames were leading in shots 9-8.

The second period started off pretty good for the Flames when four and a half minutes in, Paul Byron forced a turnover to Mikael Backlund who found a wide-open red-hot Mike Cammalleri to give the Flames a 2-1 lead. Things got very good after that.

One minute later, Matt Stajan was the recipient of a fairly generous call and was awarded a penalty shot. I wasn't expecting a whole lot from Stajan, whom isn't known as much of a shootout specialist, I think anyone who saw what happened were pretty pleased:   

A pretty emotional goal considering all the hardship that Stajan and his family have endured recently. He points to the sky after the goal and ...yeah. That is a pretty cool moment. Good on him.

The Flames would score twice more before the second period ended, one from Lord Byron, who rules, and one from Glencross who roofed one on Fasth and ended his night. The Flames went into the third WINNING 5-1?! I was tingling with glee. 

Heading into the third, I am sure most Flames fans would have been content with sitting on the four goal lead. However, the Flames decided to reward us for our loyalty this year by laying into our northern foes for three more goals on Ben Scrivens who must be super glad he willingly signed up for another tour of duty in goaltending Vietnam. 

Glencross scored twice in the third to complete the hat-trick and even, sigh, Kevin Westgarth scored in the third off of what I am going to assume was an intentional chest pass from Tyler Wotherspoon to make it 7-1 at that point. The game ended 8-1 and all is good in the world. 

THE RED WARRIOR


One may be tempted to make Ryan Smyth the Red Warrior tonight as he somehow, and I have no idea how, managed to be even in an 8-1 loss. That is amazing. How is that even possible? Anywho, enough of the report from Shelbyville. The Flames had a number of amazing performances tonight including Curtis Glencross who scored a friggen hat trick, Mark Giordano who seems to be on a one man mission to make Dan Hamhuis pay for not being picked for the Olympic team, and T.J Brodie who, along with Gio, was +5 tonight. Even though we all hate that stat, that's still pretty impressive.

However, the obvious choice is good ol' Matthew "Ragin Franchise" Stajan who had four points tonight to go with his penalty shot goal. Just great stuff all around.

SCORING CHANCES

Team Period Time Note Home Away State
Home 1 14:00 Perron 4 19 21 35 57 89 5 7 18 20 24 31 5v5
Away 1 11:19 Agostino 5 14 35 51 84 93 4 8 23 31 44 51 5v5
Home 1 7:52 Schultz 14 19 21 35 51 93 5 18 20 24 31 44 5v5
Home 1 6:50 Hendricks 2 23 27 35 68 85 3 11 13 31 32 56 5v5
Home 1 5:36 Hall 4 5 35 57 84 89 5 7 8 18 20 31 5v5
Away 1 5:08 Colborne 14 19 21 35 51 93 4 8 23 31 44 51 5v5
Away 1 3:08 Monahan 5 21 35 93 94 4 5 11 13 23 31 4v5
Away 1 2:45 Giordano 5 21 35 93 94 4 5 11 13 23 31 4v5
Home 2 17:33 Smyth 2 14 35 51 93 94 3 13 31 32 44 5v4
Away 2 16:41 Glencross 2 27 35 51 68 85 4 7 11 20 24 31 5v5
Away 2 16:18 Monahan 2 27 35 51 68 85 3 8 23 31 51 56 5v5
Away 2 15:48 Cammalleri goal 19 21 23 27 35 68 5 7 11 13 31 32 5v5
Away 2 14:40 Stajan PS goal 2 4 35 57 85 89 5 7 11 13 31 32 5v5
Away 2 14:01 Byron goal 2 4 35 57 85 89 5 7 11 13 31 32 5v5
Home 2 13:06 Lander 5 14 35 51 84 93 4 15 16 17 31 44 5v5
Home 2 11:50 Lander 14 19 21 30 51 93 4 8 23 31 44 51 5v5
Home 2 10:12 Jones 5 20 28 30 84 94 3 15 16 17 31 56 5v5
Away 2 5:34 Hudler 2 30 85 93 94 4 5 8 20 24 31 4v5
Home 2 3:49 Nugent-Hopkins 2 5 14 21 30 93 5 7 17 23 31 51 5v5
Away 2 2:59 Glencross 19 30 51 57 84 89 3 5 18 20 24 31 5v5
Home 3 19:26 Nugent-Hopkins 14 19 30 85 93 5 7 11 31 32 4v4
Away 3 15:16 Glencross 14 19 20 21 30 93 4 18 20 24 31 44 5v5
Away 3 15:11 Glencross goal 14 19 20 21 30 93 4 18 20 24 31 44 5v5
Away 3 14:44 Bouma 5 23 27 28 30 84 3 15 16 17 31 56 5v5
Away 3 14:34 Westgarth goal 5 23 27 28 30 84 3 15 16 17 31 56 5v5
Away 3 13:47 Cammalleri 2 20 30 57 85 89 4 8 13 23 31 44 5v5
Home 3 10:10 Smyth 19 20 21 28 30 94 4 15 16 17 31 44 5v5
Away 3 7:06 Glencross 19 20 21 28 30 94 4 18 20 24 31 44 5v5
Home 3 6:57 Gazdic 5 20 30 57 84 94 4 18 20 24 31 44 5v5
Away 3 4:50 Monahan 4 14 19 21 30 93 4 8 23 31 44 51 5v5
Away 3 3:45 Bouma 5 20 28 30 84 94 3 15 16 17 31 44 5v5
Away 3 3:30 Agostino 19 21 30 51 57 89 4 16 23 31 44 51 5v5
# Player EV PP SH
3 SMID, LADISLAV 19:30 5 2 00:00 0 0 01:12 0 1
4 RUSSELL, KRIS 18:20 9 4 03:45 3 0 00:01 0 0
5 GIORDANO, MARK 13:15 4 5 04:19 3 0 02:13 0 0
7 BRODIE, TJ 16:30 4 4 01:56 0 0 00:40 0 0
8 COLBORNE, JOE 15:05 5 2 02:04 1 0 00:00 0 0
11 BACKLUND, MIKAEL 13:00 4 2 03:22 2 0 00:39 0 0
13 CAMMALLERI, MIKE 13:08 4 1 03:22 2 0 00:33 0 1
15 WESTGARTH, KEVIN 10:05 3 3 00:00 0 0 00:00 0 0
16 MCGRATTAN, BRIAN 11:13 4 3 00:00 0 0 00:00 0 0
17 BOUMA, LANCE 13:17 3 4 00:15 0 0 02:15 0 0
18 STAJAN, MATT 09:39 4 4 00:00 0 0 02:09 0 0
20 GLENCROSS, CURTIS 10:28 5 4 02:04 1 0 00:01 0 0
23 MONAHAN, SEAN 17:26 6 2 03:24 2 0 00:04 0 0
24 HUDLER, JIRI 10:11 5 3 02:17 1 0 00:01 0 0
31 RAMO, KARRI   17 11   3 0   0 1
32 BYRON, PAUL 13:32 3 2 00:00 0 0 01:10 0 1
44 BUTLER, CHRIS 17:07 9 5 01:22 0 0 02:46 0 1
51 AGOSTINO, KENNY 13:17 5 2 00:15 0 0 00:00 0 0
56 WOTHERSPOON, TYLER 17:04 3 2 00:00 0 0 00:00 0 0
Period Totals EV PP 5v3 PP SH 5v3 SH
1 4 4 2 4 2 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
2 7 5 6 4 1 0 0 0 0 1 0 0
3 9 3 9 3 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0

SUM IT UP


Flames rule, while the Oilers a pathetic excuse for a joke... also, they drool.

Flames host the Sharks on Monday.

112039ec99211abeba03b81d364735ec
Taylor splits time between UVIC and Calgary studying history. Taylor likes the Flames, the Cannons, Buckshot, and the Oxford comma. Taylor scored on his own net on dome ice when he was 8. Twitter: @TaylorMcKee_
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#1 Ryan Pike
March 23 2014, 12:32AM
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They truly are building something special up there.

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#2 TRAV
March 23 2014, 08:37AM
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I appreciate that we are near the bottom of the standings so I say this with some temper... Jay Feaster deserves some credit.

1. Hartley has proven to be the right coach for this group getting the most out of his team and getting them to learn good habits and play the right way.

2. Ramo is looking more and more like the future goalie of this team. A shrewd move to include him in the trade.

3. While the trade wasn't a good one Byron is emerging as a quality player.

4. Colborne is looking like a great return for a fourth. Starting to dominate along the boards and showing some signs of being a quality two way player.

5. Our farm system is better than it has been in a number of years. Ward is doing an amazing job of teaching the kids the right way to play and you can see that the organization as a whole is connected in philosophy. Players like Knight, Wotherspoon, Byron, Ortio, Street, Granlund, are showing signs of promise and proper development.

6.Monhan. Right player to draft, right time and right decision to keep him up. He is going to score 20 as a rookie.

7.. Jankowski is looking like the best player to be drafted in that year... Well wait... okay maybe not yet....but he is improving.

While Feaster made a number of well documented mistakes I think that it is also worthwhile to recognize that he is the one responsible for setting the Flames on the right path. It's still a long, long path but we are clearly headed in the right direction.

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#3 RexLibris
March 23 2014, 09:01AM
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I've been sent here to ask for our team's asses back...if its alright with you guys.

:)

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#4 CTibs
March 23 2014, 12:32AM
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I will never apologize for the schadenfreude I felt when I saw another Oilers jersey thrown onto the ice. Tonight was glorious.

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#5 Skuehler
March 23 2014, 01:45AM
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Can't help but feel the Calgary Vancouver game from a few months back where Torts lost his mind was a turning point for the Nucks. They're demise has been imminent from that point on. Maybe we see something similar here where while the Soilers have been awful for a while, perhaps it's this embarrassment that is a catalyst for change.

Flames haven't won a lot on the score sheet this year but they have sure caused grief for their two main rivals. And those are moral victories.

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#6 mtgould89
March 23 2014, 12:28AM
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Instead of "Oil Change", Sportsnet should start airing a show called "Imminent Oil Management Change".

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#7 beloch
March 23 2014, 01:05AM
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Sometimes, nothing will do but a Conan quote. An old-school Conan quote.

What is best in life?

To crush your enemies, see them driven before you, and to hear the lamentation of their women.

Tonight, the killer instinct was there. The Flames had Edmonton's throats under their boots and they pressed down without mercy or compassion for almost two full periods. It was glorious!

Gazdic again proved that he has zero class by fighting with his visor on. Westgarth's hands were a bloody mess from connecting with Gazdic's visor over and over again. Hopefully the enforcers of the league will clue in and start giving Gazdic the cold-shoulder (and lopsided time in the box) when he tries to start stuff. This is a player who does not follow the code.

Hall and Eakins did effective damage control in their post-game interviews, but the writing is on the wall. Eakins is toast. The $6M club stopped paying attention to him half a season ago. After, what, five coaches in as many years, it's pretty clear who runs the Oilers.

It was great to see the return of scoreface, but Matt Stajan's 4 point triumph tonight was the sweetest thing of all. In this dark hour of his grief, the man deserves a little light. #$%@ yeah Matt Stajan. #$%@ yeah.

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#9 lionlager
March 23 2014, 12:55AM
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Giving the gm job to a guy who wouldn't play with a helmet is obviously a smart plan. He makes the shrewd moves the Oilers need, like bringing in an ex flame and making him captain.

Great game. Man, it's kind of sad to see how little progress they've made up there after all these years. But it's also funny. Real funny.

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#10 Manfly
March 23 2014, 10:18AM
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Funny how Feaster is long gone but 6 rings from the Oilers continues to get a free pass year after year! kind of pathetic!

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#11 TheoForever
March 23 2014, 10:22AM
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Since the writer doesn't understand, Westgarth played tonight because he is part of our team, just like McGratten, likeable guys, popular with their teammates. They serve their purpose and can play a little as well.

However, it is nice that you established high moral ground, from now on we can all see how enlightened you are.

Don Cherry was great tonight, great comments! Great game by the Flames, love it!

The fact that we have caused meltdowns of both Van and Oil, priceless!

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#12 Jibmeister
March 23 2014, 12:29PM
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As much as everyone hates Westgarth, that tip of his was actually extremely nice.

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#13 P. Ennis
March 23 2014, 09:12AM
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The poor Oilers are enduring a rebuild inside a rebuild inside what will soon be another rebuild. A rebuild inception.

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#14 Baalzamon
March 23 2014, 04:27PM
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How in the name of all that is holy did the ancient, unnecessary, and poorly-fought argument about enforcers erupt in the post-game thread of an 8-1 win over THE OILERS??? Enjoy it. Savour it. Marvel at Westgarth's hand-eye coordination.

Otherwise, everyone just shove it.

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#15 Jeff In Lethbridge
March 23 2014, 09:09AM
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is it right to enjoy this win so much? Yes, the boys took the lunch-money from the odd, handicapped kid, but in this case they deserved it.

As for Gazdik, time for a new rule; 2 for taking your helmet off, or 4 for leaving it on. lol

Cherry can be brash and obnoxious but he is (in my opinion) right in this case.

If Gazdik is going to be a tough guy, an enforcer, he cannot wear equipment that makes it impossible for the other party to fight back without hurting himself. Cowardly and dishonorable. and then To sit there and laugh in the penalty box because Wesgarth's hands were all torn up is pathetic.

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#16 mk
March 23 2014, 09:56AM
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After the game, the CBC panel did a nice job of picking apart Hall's game (they looked at his complete lack of defense on several goals). Pretty embarrassing for the Oilers.

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#17 Baalzamon
March 23 2014, 12:00PM
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Looking at the icetime allocation last night--and it's straight-up insulting to the Oilers.

  • McGrattan and Westgarth both played more than 10 minutes
  • Stajan, Glencross, and Hudler all had less icetime than Agostino
  • Sean Monahan led the Flames' forwards with ~21 minutes
  • Giordano and Brodie both played less than 20 minutes
  • Backlund and Cammalleri both had less icetime than Tyler Wotherspoon
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#18 suba steve
March 23 2014, 04:17PM
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Kent Wilson wrote:

Take the fallacious arguments elsewhere please. They don't aid discussion in the least.

So, all the "hockey people" and players who believe that goons are a benefit to their teams...these people are all just 100% wrong? I suppose Gretzky took McSorley with him to LA for the pleasure of his company?

I won't pretend that I know anything for sure, but what I'll say is that the Flames better err on the side of caution with their goon position(s) when Johnny Gaudreau arrives in Calgary. If a goon can possibly make Johnny play a couple of inches taller, well...he needs all the help he can get in that department.

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#19 Kent Wilson
March 23 2014, 03:53PM
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@hockeydoofus

Take the fallacious arguments elsewhere please. They don't aid discussion in the least.

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#20 Chambers
March 23 2014, 10:31AM
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I also suspect the writer has never played the game before. Westgarth and Gratts bring toughness and send the opposition a message as early as the pre game lineup review!

You can't have 12 pretty boys playing forward trying to score goals. It doesn't work that way Taylor!

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#21 Franko J
March 23 2014, 10:47PM
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The best part of last night was Matt Stajan. Here is a player who was a few years ago by many Flames would have traded for a bag of pucks and a few broken sticks. Now through the toughest adversity and tragedy he symbolizes why giving up or giving in is not an option or excuse for this team. A classy player who wears the Flaming "C" with pride.

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#22 Baalzamon
March 23 2014, 12:03PM
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Oh, and I have more answers to questions no one asked. In their last five games, the Flames have not fallen below 60% in Fenwick Close. Which is ridiculous.

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#23 Clyde
March 23 2014, 12:48PM
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Jibmeister wrote:

As much as everyone hates Westgarth, that tip of his was actually extremely nice.

Westgarth plays his role given to him well. He is energetic, physical and courageous. He never takes a shift off and he showed last night that he will do what it takes to fulfill his role no matter what. That rubs off on younger players and they see what needs to be done to fulfill their roles as well. Not everyone on here hates him. As was said in an earlier comment, it takes all kinds of players to build a team

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#24 BurningSensation
March 23 2014, 11:31AM
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dotfras wrote:

Monahan Colborne Agostino with a goose egg in an 8-1 is a little disappointing.

You have to work pretty hard to find a sour note in last nights game, and I guess that would have to be it.

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#25 TheoForever
March 23 2014, 12:43PM
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@Jibmeister

Not everyone hates Westgarth. Not everyone hates Butler. Who btw. has shown a great improvement and deserves another contract.

The coaching done in Calgary and Abby has been very good. Clearly those guys are good teachers.

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#26 beloch
March 23 2014, 01:14PM
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Clyde wrote:

Westgarth plays his role given to him well. He is energetic, physical and courageous. He never takes a shift off and he showed last night that he will do what it takes to fulfill his role no matter what. That rubs off on younger players and they see what needs to be done to fulfill their roles as well. Not everyone on here hates him. As was said in an earlier comment, it takes all kinds of players to build a team

It takes a special kind of courage/madness to fight the same guy who kept his visor on and put you in the hospital the last time your team played his.

Honestly, I think the league's enforcers should skate away from fights Gazdic starts until he starts removing his helmet. Let him learn to fight fair or watch him rack up so many one-sided penalties that even the Oilers won't put him on the ice.

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#27 TheoForever
March 23 2014, 03:07PM
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Once in a while someone comes along and starts criticizing enforces and fighting. Those people make empty statements about lack of evidence to support the claim that enforces can change the outcome of a game, which btw. they can and do.

I have been thinking about who those people are and why they think the way they do, and finally I think I understand.

There is a GENERATION GAP.

I'm going to take you back to a time, that once was and has come to an end in places like Canada. A time before lawyers and crybabies. Back to a time where your mommy and daddy didn't drive you around to clubs and events.

A time where kids played in their own neighbourhoods policed themselves on the playgrounds with no adult supervision. Yeah, that time existed not that long ago.

There was 10 of us or so, we were about 12 years old and we were playing soccer. A bunch (6) of 16-17 year olds came around and they took our ball and told us to get lost. We knew them but being younger didn't hang out with them.

One of our group was bigger and more aggressive, he was our leader and best player the driving force in all the games. That day he challenged one of the older boys and fight erupted, he got some licks in but he was loosing. The older boy had him in a headlock, and was telling him to give up but our guy wouldn't. The moment he was realised he kept coming at the older kid. It didn't matter how badly he got hit he would not give up. Finally, the other older boys stepped in and separated the two.

They gave the ball back and left. We stayed on the playground and kept playing.

A few hours later they came back and said -'let's play'. We split into groups to make it fair. From that day on we weren't picked on and not just by those guys but anyone else. We had our protection.

It took one guy's bloodied nose and never give up attitude no matter what.

This brings me back to Westgarth and why Hartley put him in the game. Westgarh had to face his nemesis, because he is a 'gunfighter' and has no choice. Hartley, understands what it is like and he knows what it does for the team. Yeah, Westgarth played a big role in this win.

You can criticize as much as you want but the players felt it and coach knew it.

Cheers

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#28 Primo
March 23 2014, 09:57AM
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TRAV wrote:

I appreciate that we are near the bottom of the standings so I say this with some temper... Jay Feaster deserves some credit.

1. Hartley has proven to be the right coach for this group getting the most out of his team and getting them to learn good habits and play the right way.

2. Ramo is looking more and more like the future goalie of this team. A shrewd move to include him in the trade.

3. While the trade wasn't a good one Byron is emerging as a quality player.

4. Colborne is looking like a great return for a fourth. Starting to dominate along the boards and showing some signs of being a quality two way player.

5. Our farm system is better than it has been in a number of years. Ward is doing an amazing job of teaching the kids the right way to play and you can see that the organization as a whole is connected in philosophy. Players like Knight, Wotherspoon, Byron, Ortio, Street, Granlund, are showing signs of promise and proper development.

6.Monhan. Right player to draft, right time and right decision to keep him up. He is going to score 20 as a rookie.

7.. Jankowski is looking like the best player to be drafted in that year... Well wait... okay maybe not yet....but he is improving.

While Feaster made a number of well documented mistakes I think that it is also worthwhile to recognize that he is the one responsible for setting the Flames on the right path. It's still a long, long path but we are clearly headed in the right direction.

Your bang on with your comments! As much as I like the Burke hiring I am now more concerned than ever that he will try to erase the Feaster blueprint and impose his own.

I am hoping that his hockey intelligence will make him realize that Feaster has put some nice pieces in place so do not destroy!!

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#29 hockeydoofus
March 23 2014, 03:26PM
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@TheoForever

For all you guys that criticize McGratten, Westgarth, etc., how many NHL games have you played, how many NHL goals have you scored and how many NHL heavyweights have you fought. Yea, right.

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#30 SmellOfVictory
March 23 2014, 08:37AM
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CTibs wrote:

I will never apologize for the schadenfreude I felt when I saw another Oilers jersey thrown onto the ice. Tonight was glorious.

As bad as I feel for Oilers fans, I do think it's pretty funny that jersey throwing is becoming a tradition up there.

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#31 Jeff In Lethbridge
March 23 2014, 09:15AM
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Beloch and Shart wrote:

How come McGrattan never yaps at Sabres players during the warm up or stares down the Sabres bench?

why, is he supposed to?

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#32 Frank Miron
March 23 2014, 12:38PM
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Ryan Pike wrote:

They truly are building something special up there.

A contract extention, Hartley ? :-)

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#33 TheoForever
March 23 2014, 12:48PM
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@exsanguinator

They are already out if I'm not mistaken.

Yap we did it!!!!!!!

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#34 Burnward
March 23 2014, 08:34PM
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Re: Westgarth/McGratton

I think last night displayed the differing "identities" of the Flames and Oilers.

We are a hard working, in your face club...and they are soft as hell.

While Big Ern and Westgarth may not have the most skills on the team, they do allow the more skilled players to play their game.

When's the last time a Flame got cheap shotted? The other teams know they have to answer the bell if that happens.

While it's easy to dismiss them...these guys go to war each night and knowing that you have nukes, just in case, probably opens the ice a little bit more.

This team could have been fallen apart at times but instead has grown together.

This isn't about CORSI or any stats, it's about a mentality that a team needs to win in this league.

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#36 dotfras
March 23 2014, 11:03AM
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Monahan Colborne Agostino with a goose egg in an 8-1 is a little disappointing.

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#37 Chambers
March 23 2014, 12:26PM
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RKD wrote:

The Flames organization has a plan, all the players buy-in to Hartley's system. They may not have a sexy roster but play as a unit, they play for the logo on their chest and for each other. They make selfless plays. This team is headed in the right direction, the veteran players have taken a leadership role and been great mentors for the kids coming up.

How Taylor Hall can say he wasn't embarrassed is beyond me. This guy is clearly disconnected from the team. HNIC's Healy pointed out multiple times Hall behind so far behind he couldn't backcheck and when he went in to forecheck. Jordan Eberle talking about the Oilers high powered offence on After Hours. What is talking about. They guys making millions are suffering from delusions of grandeur.

Not only that these guys have never had gap contracts! They went from EL to having $36M handed to them without having to prove themselves. Now they have quit listening and are waiting for the next coach. It's really a shame for them but the Oiler organization deserves a huge amount of blame here! I believe Kevin Lowe has accountability for this????

Go Flames!

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#38 beloch
March 23 2014, 04:08PM
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TheoForever wrote:

Once in a while someone comes along and starts criticizing enforces and fighting. Those people make empty statements about lack of evidence to support the claim that enforces can change the outcome of a game, which btw. they can and do.

I have been thinking about who those people are and why they think the way they do, and finally I think I understand.

There is a GENERATION GAP.

I'm going to take you back to a time, that once was and has come to an end in places like Canada. A time before lawyers and crybabies. Back to a time where your mommy and daddy didn't drive you around to clubs and events.

A time where kids played in their own neighbourhoods policed themselves on the playgrounds with no adult supervision. Yeah, that time existed not that long ago.

There was 10 of us or so, we were about 12 years old and we were playing soccer. A bunch (6) of 16-17 year olds came around and they took our ball and told us to get lost. We knew them but being younger didn't hang out with them.

One of our group was bigger and more aggressive, he was our leader and best player the driving force in all the games. That day he challenged one of the older boys and fight erupted, he got some licks in but he was loosing. The older boy had him in a headlock, and was telling him to give up but our guy wouldn't. The moment he was realised he kept coming at the older kid. It didn't matter how badly he got hit he would not give up. Finally, the other older boys stepped in and separated the two.

They gave the ball back and left. We stayed on the playground and kept playing.

A few hours later they came back and said -'let's play'. We split into groups to make it fair. From that day on we weren't picked on and not just by those guys but anyone else. We had our protection.

It took one guy's bloodied nose and never give up attitude no matter what.

This brings me back to Westgarth and why Hartley put him in the game. Westgarh had to face his nemesis, because he is a 'gunfighter' and has no choice. Hartley, understands what it is like and he knows what it does for the team. Yeah, Westgarth played a big role in this win.

You can criticize as much as you want but the players felt it and coach knew it.

Cheers

There's also a bit of a disconnect between people who played nothing but refereed ice hockey and never ball-hockey or shinny. Things do get out of hand easier when there's no box or higher authority. In the NHL the players are so big and passionate that the referees and box aren't always enough to maintain control. What you've described is a valid reason to employ and deploy the big guys.

There are subtleties to the debate over enforcers however. Something else is going on when prearranged goon fights happen the moment the puck first hits the ice. There's nothing about sticking up for team-mates or preventing nastiness going on there. It's just a circus side-show to get the crowd cheering. Those fights are an embarrassment to the league and pose needless risk of injury to the enforcers themselves. The question is, how do you rewrite the rules to cut out the meaningless fights without removing the meaningful ones?

Although changing the rules on the ice remains a conundrum, one thing I would like to see is a little less gladiatorial pomp in arenas when fights happen. Even in hitmen games where it's just kids that are playing, fights break out frequently. When they do, on come the flashing lights and heavy-metal music. The crowd is encouraged to cheer and jeer. I'm surprised they don't have the ice-crew come on and start throwing loaves of bread into the stands! It's repugnant. Leave the lights the way they are. Don't turn on the music. Treat it like two kids are out there risking injury or death.

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#39 Baalzamon
March 23 2014, 04:24PM
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hockeydoofus wrote:

For all you guys that criticize McGratten, Westgarth, etc., how many NHL games have you played, how many NHL goals have you scored and how many NHL heavyweights have you fought. Yea, right.

how many have you?

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#40 beloch
March 23 2014, 01:28AM
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@Beloch and Shart

Heh. I thought you were a troll from Vancouver. Shocking!

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#41 herringchoker
March 23 2014, 06:32AM
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Hey Guys, I was at the Halifax mooseheads games this weekend and had a good look at Nik Ehlers. Kid is awesome. Looks like Drouins clone. Kid was dangerous every time he touched the puck and man can he skate. He's not afraid to go to net and has very soft hands. He is the real deal. He will be the sleeper in this draft.

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#42 BurningSensation
March 23 2014, 10:11AM
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herringchoker wrote:

Hey Guys, I was at the Halifax mooseheads games this weekend and had a good look at Nik Ehlers. Kid is awesome. Looks like Drouins clone. Kid was dangerous every time he touched the puck and man can he skate. He's not afraid to go to net and has very soft hands. He is the real deal. He will be the sleeper in this draft.

The knocks against him are pretty obvious though. He's tiny, underweight, and his success may be floated by talented linemates (the aforeementioned Drouin).

That said, I caught some highlights of him recently and was very impressed. His hands are unbelievable.

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#43 SoCalFlamesFan
March 23 2014, 02:56PM
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Jeff In Lethbridge wrote:

is it right to enjoy this win so much? Yes, the boys took the lunch-money from the odd, handicapped kid, but in this case they deserved it.

As for Gazdik, time for a new rule; 2 for taking your helmet off, or 4 for leaving it on. lol

Cherry can be brash and obnoxious but he is (in my opinion) right in this case.

If Gazdik is going to be a tough guy, an enforcer, he cannot wear equipment that makes it impossible for the other party to fight back without hurting himself. Cowardly and dishonorable. and then To sit there and laugh in the penalty box because Wesgarth's hands were all torn up is pathetic.

I find it interesting that the general defense of Gazdik is that removing your helmet is against the rules ... so is fighting ... and tripping ... and hooking etc. I don't think Gazdik is absolutely opposed to any other penalties. Sounds more like hiding behind the rules.

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#44 dotfras
March 23 2014, 09:09AM
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@TRAV

Agree with all, however I think the Colborne move would be majorly credited to BB.

It's been nice to watch the Flames create their own route through the course of this rebuild. There has been a ton of growth over the last two years. While we may never see a first overall pick, management has done a pretty good job righting the ship.

I'd say our greatest needs to address over the summer are a 1G & a Second Pairing D Man.

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#45 theartfuldodger
March 23 2014, 09:55AM
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Goaltenders vietnam.........lol!

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#46 RKD
March 23 2014, 11:46AM
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The Flames organization has a plan, all the players buy-in to Hartley's system. They may not have a sexy roster but play as a unit, they play for the logo on their chest and for each other. They make selfless plays. This team is headed in the right direction, the veteran players have taken a leadership role and been great mentors for the kids coming up.

How Taylor Hall can say he wasn't embarrassed is beyond me. This guy is clearly disconnected from the team. HNIC's Healy pointed out multiple times Hall behind so far behind he couldn't backcheck and when he went in to forecheck. Jordan Eberle talking about the Oilers high powered offence on After Hours. What is talking about. They guys making millions are suffering from delusions of grandeur.

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#47 kittensandcookies
March 23 2014, 12:26PM
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mk wrote:

After the game, the CBC panel did a nice job of picking apart Hall's game (they looked at his complete lack of defense on several goals). Pretty embarrassing for the Oilers.

He's always been bad defensively. I've watched way too many Oilers games this season and last and every time there's at least two plays by Hall where I think "why the hell don't you backcheck?".

He doesn't care. Apparently no one tells "The Hall" how to play.

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#48 clyde
March 23 2014, 09:50PM
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mattyc wrote:

I do like what Hartley did from a personal perspective (giving Westgarth a chance to come back from a brutal showing - and probably an embarrassing or at least sobering incident as a fighter). But from a utility perspective, I'm not sure it's a better way to win a hockey game, but I'm sympathetic to the argument that people are more important than a throwaway game against the oilers when both teams are already booking tee times.

Regarding measurement: You can't directly measure the impact of a fight, but if it has any meaningful impact on the game, and improves player performance, it would show in other statistics that measure player performance. For instance if we work on the premise that every flames player played harder after the fight, and playing harder made the flames more likely to win the game, you could create a testable hypothesis to see if any measure of success (corsi, goals, whatever your flavour) improved after the fight.

Personally, I'm skeptical.

1. I feel like the Flames were probably giving their all already (or if they weren't, the difference before/after would be insignificantly small)

2. Even if there were a difference, I'm skeptical it would be greater than the difference between a 5min/night enforcer and a functional 3-4th liner.

I understand your skepticism. But, keep an open mind. There are things in this game that simply cannot be explained or measured.

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#49 Burnward
March 23 2014, 10:29PM
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@Derzie

Maybe Westgarth made an educated decision weighing his skill set against potential earning power.

Not a whole lot of jobs out there paying what he makes a year.

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#50 suba steve
March 23 2014, 12:02PM
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Baalzamon wrote:

wasn't for lack of effort/quality play. They combined for 11 shots on goal (better than one third of the Flames' total) and none of them had worse than a +3 scoring chance count. They were all above 60% Corsi (and Fenwick) too, and that's with score effects working against them.

When are they gonna finally start giving points (in the standings) for positive Corsi results and scoring chance count (and Fenwick). Stupid NHL.

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