Weekend Open Thread: Draft Week Scenarios

Ryan Pike
June 21 2014 09:00AM

Lads and ladies, we are now less than one week away from the Most Important Draft in Calgary Flames History*.

*- Well, since last year's.

There's a LOT of chatter in hockey circles about movement at the top end of the draft order.

So what happens? I can, with absolutely no insider info, speculate three main scenarios.

FLAMES DRAFT 1ST AND 4TH

Calgary utilizes organizational assets (later picks, prospects, roster players) to trade with Florida in exchange for the 1st overall pick. Calgary drafts 1st and 4th, in a similar manner to the Vancouver Canucks in 1999 Draft selecting 2nd and 3rd. Brian Burke and Brad Treliving are seen by TSN cameras high-fiving, Flames pick Aaron Ekblad and Sam Bennett and the rebuild is fast-tracked. Edmonton weeps.

(There's also a version of this where they trade down to 10th or so and use the assets they get for trading down to get 1st overall also. They draft Aaron Ekblad and one of the second tier guys like Nikolaj Ehlers, Haydn Fleury or Nikolai Goldobin. Edmonton weeps.)

Likelihood: Low.

Why?: The price tag to get 1st overall straight-away would be steep. We're talking next year's 1st rounder and/or a high end roster player. And Sven Baertschi. And other stuff. To get both Sedins, Brian Burke sent Bryan McCabe (who was good then) and a future 1st rounder to Chicago for 4th overall, then flipped that pick with two 3rd rounders for the 1st overall pick, and then traded down to 2nd on the condition Atlanta wouldn't take a Sedin. That's ridiculous, and I'm not sure it can be pulled off again, nor am I sure the Flames have the stomach to part with the assets required to do it.

FLAMES TRADE UP

Calgary takes their 4th overall pick, add a prospect and/or roster asset (Hudler?) and trade them to Florida in order to move up to 1st overall and get Aaron Ekblad. Edmonton weeps.

Likelihood: Low to moderate.

Why?: The price would be lower, and Florida would get a Flames roster player or prospect, as well as one of the top four guys in the draft. Everybody wins. Calgary's defense gets massively upgraded for the future. I'm not 100% sure Calgary does this, though, as the interest around 1st overall may bid the price above what Brad Treliving cares to give. "Hudler and Baertschi and 4th overall? Screw it, we'll see who's left when we pick 4th."

FLAMES STAY PUT

Calgary makes no trades, drafts 4th, picks whoever's left from the vaunted top 4.

Likelihood: Moderate to high

Why?: They don't give anything up and they gain an asset. The bidding war for 1st overall may become stupid, causing the Flames to "settle" for 4th and one of the Sams or Leon Draisaitl.

FLAMES TRADE DOWN

Calgary accepts an offer from a team drafting below them that wants one of the top 4. They get an asset, most likely a second or third rounder, to drop in the draft order.

Likelihood: Moderate

Why?: Remember the bidding war? Well, Calgary could be a beneficiary if someone a team below them covets falls to 4 and that coveting team makes a stupid big offer to get them to move down. And Colorado gave Calgary a second round pick for marginal NHL goaltender Reto Berra, so let's not pretend it's not possible. The Flames' management have mentioned a "top 6" rather than a top 4, and likely they have a liking towards someone like Jake Virtanen, Nick Ritchie or Michael Dal Colle. While they probably like Sam Reinhart more, if somebody gives you a chance to add to your prospect depth and give your scouting and development staff more kicks at the can, you can be convinced to "settle" for Virtanen and a second (for example) rather than Bennett or Draisaitl.

Teams often make foolish decisions when they're on the clock and have their Draft Goggles on.

What do you think is the most likely scenario next weekend?

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Now in his third full season covering the Calgary Flames and the NHL, Ryan Pike is a Calgary native and FlamesNation's managing editor. He's trying to keep his head up, his stick on the ice and is giving it 110% every shift. You can also find his work at The Hockey Writers, the Wrestling Observer and Tough Talk MMA.
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#1 DragonFlame
June 22 2014, 05:05PM
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Jeff In Lethbridge wrote:

you must be WW

You must be an idiot

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#2 DragonFlame
June 22 2014, 03:56PM
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Jeff In Lethbridge wrote:

If you recall, Brian Burke came in and reviewed the drafting and trades of the last number of years which all culminated in the firing of Jay Feaster. It wasn't the scouts that were fired it was Jay Feaster. The Scouts will put their list together but the man whose job is on the line is the one who makes the decisions even if the decision is just do agree with the scouts.

Jeff, you might want to consider a tinfoil hat. First, who will argue that Feaster almost single-handedly killed any hopes the Flames had of a re-build when he didn't know enough about the rules regarding ROR? Second, Feaster and Flames' fans got screwed by Jarome Iginla when Feaster didn't get Iggy to commit on paper where he would go, and Iginla basically told the Flames and the people of Calgary, "Screw you." Third, Feaster thought we'd get a king's ransom for Bouwmeester and hung onto him until the last minute and (while it's well-documented I don't like JayBo) the Flames should have done better on that deal. Burke was working for Anaheim last year during the draft, and he CLEARLY acknowledged that that the Duck's scouting staff felt the Flames had the best draft last season out of all the teams involved.

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#3 MK? LOL
June 22 2014, 10:52AM
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@ mk

"I like all the options where 'Edmonton weeps'. I generally enjoy this happening. I'm actually kind of hoping that Edmonton trades up to #1 overall and then the kid flat out refuses to sign with them."

Cowboy hat on too tight for ya? LOL

I bet you have a teeny willy and drive a big truck. Heehehee

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#4 Burnward
June 22 2014, 12:10PM
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Just for funsies...

If Draisatl is Kopitar and Ritchie is Lucic...which would you prefer?

Seems to be the best case scenarios for both.

I take Lucic.

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#5 Jeff Lebowski
June 21 2014, 11:01AM
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Will Nick Ritchie be our Tyler Biggs? I think many are getting worried about this.

I'm not. For 2 reasons: 1- I really think the decision is a BT / TB call. I think they are zeroing in on highest offensive impact. Ritchie is a blend, a hybrid - does many things well but much of his appeal doesn't directly impact scoresheet as the top 4 does.

2- So what if they do pick Ritchie? We have no control, why let it bug you?

Besides, Button has done well of late. If he genuinely likes him ( and not because BB likes him) then he might just be a helluva player.

Also, it's blasphemous to take Ritchie seemingly ONLY because the sources people use to form opinion haven't put him there. Who cares? What do they REALLY know? Just look at some past redraft scenarios. Things change.

If Lucic's draft was done over - where does he go? Where would Bowman, Lombardi and BT/BB slot him? Top 3,5,10?

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#6 DragonFlame
June 22 2014, 06:54PM
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@Alt

As you are all convinced a "blowhard" like Burke cannot possibly right the "good ship Flames," allow me to introduce to you one Ken Dryden, a rather articulate individual *who knows a thing or two about winning Stanley Cups (let alone he's a best selling author).

Ken Dryden lasted two whole years.

Following Mr Dryden were Pat Quinn (who looks good with a cigar in his mouth), John Ferguson Jr (I guess he had a famous dad, but he wasn't particularly good at running a hockey team), Cliff Fletcher (I expect the Leafs were hoping Cliff could reenact history and pillage the Flames on a five-for-five trade).

Then there was Brian Burke, left to deal with the mess the Leafs' bureaucracy left behind.

So, Burke doesn't kiss butts and he rubs some people the wrong way. He managed to do some good things for a team operated by a bunch of politically correct teachers otherwise known as the OTPP.

Burke did not mess up the Leafs. The Leafs messed up the Leafs. That is what happens when a team goes public and hands over the reins to people who know nothing about hockey but think it's okay to spend millions on railway technology that is doomed (see Railpower) and hand out B's and C's to students who deserve D's and F's.

After all, the man works, backs up his mouth (most of the time) and the one organization he didn't improve (and that is open for argument) is so top heavy in political correctness (thanks to the Teachers Union) he never stood a chance.

I don't care if you hate Burke. But most of the trashing I see here is out in left field from a bunch of people who ought to consider a teaching profession in Ontario. *Sorry about the thing about winning Stanley Cups, it was in reference to Kevin Lowe

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#7 DragonFlame
June 22 2014, 04:15PM
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@DragonFlame

Finally, Jeff in Lethbridge, if you do a little math, you might come to the conclusion that BT's dad is worth somewhere around 600 million dollars. His son, Brad, really doesn't need the work.

So, tell me, why would a multi-millionaire's son leave a good gig in Phoenix if he was only going to be a "shadow" GM here, which would be a sideways' move?

You worry way too much.

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#8 Byron Bader
June 21 2014, 11:38AM
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@T&A4Flames

The Islanders gave up their 1st next year. Unless they're moving up I'd say they are off the table as a trading partner for their 1st. The deal would have to be astronomical for the Islanders to move that pick. Hudler, Baertschi, 2015 1st type category. Not worth it.

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#9 mk
June 21 2014, 04:12PM
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I like all the options where 'Edmonton weeps'. I generally enjoy this happening. I'm actually kind of hoping that Edmonton trades up to #1 overall and then the kid flat out refuses to sign with them.

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#10 DragonFlame
June 22 2014, 03:27PM
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For everyone who insists it's BB and BT's draft, please read:

http://flames.nhl.com/club/news.htm?id=723052

Give the man (Burke) some leeway. He's not going to step in and undermine the scouting staff if they don't think Ritchie is the BPA.

It's kind of like the CEO at the Royal Bank trying to explain to a teller how to do their job. While the words may carry weight, the bottom line is the CEO would suck behind the counter, because they've likely never done it.

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#11 Jeff In Lethbridge
June 22 2014, 05:00PM
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DragonFlame wrote:

Jeff, you might want to consider a tinfoil hat. First, who will argue that Feaster almost single-handedly killed any hopes the Flames had of a re-build when he didn't know enough about the rules regarding ROR? Second, Feaster and Flames' fans got screwed by Jarome Iginla when Feaster didn't get Iggy to commit on paper where he would go, and Iginla basically told the Flames and the people of Calgary, "Screw you." Third, Feaster thought we'd get a king's ransom for Bouwmeester and hung onto him until the last minute and (while it's well-documented I don't like JayBo) the Flames should have done better on that deal. Burke was working for Anaheim last year during the draft, and he CLEARLY acknowledged that that the Duck's scouting staff felt the Flames had the best draft last season out of all the teams involved.

you must be WW

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#12 Jeff In Lethbridge
June 22 2014, 05:35PM
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I just noticed that the Flames opener is on wed the 8th: I just happen to be flying into Calgary that day and could take in the game with my dear wife... if someone has tickets they aren't going to use... or a couple extra spots in their box... hit me up! :-D :-D :-) :-) :-D :-D

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#13 Alt
June 22 2014, 05:58PM
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@Jeff In Lethbridge

Everyone knows WW has multiple personalities? I didn't know that!

How dare someone with multiple personalities attack you!

You with your impeccable pronunciation and grammar.

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#14 MonsterPod
June 22 2014, 08:05PM
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Nathan Horton went #3 overall a decade ago.

6'2" 229lbs.

What if Nick Ritchie is another Nathan Horton? Would you take him at #4?

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#15 KingQuong
June 21 2014, 10:20AM
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My ideal scenario would be Either Sam R or Sam B or Ekblad and another top ten ish pick used on Virtanen or Nylander, Maybe package the 2 2nd rounders plus a prospect or roster player maybe both hopefully less and fleece Toronto?

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#16 Jeff In Lethbridge
June 22 2014, 05:07PM
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Kevin R wrote:

One thing many aren't mentioning when they are Burke bashing & making Feaster a victim. Rangers just dumped a huge pile of $$$ on Brad Richards of which, Flames Feaster actually offered him more $$$ in the wheel barrel than the Rangers did. I don't think Murray Edwards would have been too happy about writing that buyout cheque.

My point was: Feaster, when in charge, made the decisions, now Burke is in charge... and therefore will have his stamp on decisions.

Your point was: Feaster made bad moves.

your point does not disagree with mine, in fact it supports my point. Yet you launch into childish antics and name calling. You must be WW who, as everyone knows, has multiple personalities. Nobody else would bother to attack me when they are actually in fact reinforcing my point.

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#17 Jeff In Lethbridge
June 21 2014, 11:17AM
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It's Burke that is the wild card here... he clearly does not like to sit on his hands, and prefers to make things happen. All the rumors and speculation around Ritchie has me nervous as well... not because it makes any sense, but because he is Burke's kind of player, and when Burke is dialed in, he will do what he thinks is best.

The issue with trading picks plus players is the salary floor... if we start dropping salaries, we will need to pick up even more salary. Which would mean that a trade involving a higher end roster guy (Hudler, Wideman, Glencross, Cammy) would also need to include the signing of an expensive replacement... a Spezza or ROR type at least.

This would not be a big stretch or surprise with Burke at the helm - to see a series of trades fall quickly like dominoes. this is really his M.O. Move up in the draft and pick up a high caliber player.

Makes it more curious as to what the heck Colorado is doing with ROR - they definitely are playing hardball with him and not playing nice at all, but you can't blame them as ROR has been pretty demanding and self serving himself. But hey, it's a business and you can't blame either side for looking to maximize their options and opportunities.

Back to Burke - I would be most surprised if he takes the route of doing nothing and going with 4th pick and stands pat as is, no tinkering.

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#18 DragonFlame
June 22 2014, 05:05PM
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Well, for those of you convinced that Burke is running the show and only likes BIG players, please look at the guys drafted AFTER Nazim Kadri in the 2009 Draft:

This is all from Hockey DB:

7) Nazim Kadri 6.0 188 8) Scott Glennie 6.1 200 9) Jared Cowen 6.5 230 10) Magnus Paarjarvi-Svenson 6.3 208 11) Ryan Ellis 5.10 179 12) Calvin de Haan 6.1 187 13) Zack Kassian 6.3 214 14) Dmitri Kulikov 6.1 196 15) Peter Holland 6.2 185

So, let's see . . . seven players are taller than Kadri and 5 players are heavier.

Damn, why didn't Burke draft Jared Cowen or Zack Kassian?

Career numbers between Kadri and those two "truculent" individuals:

Kadri: 113 points in 177 games Cowen: 33 points in 158 games (okay, he's a D) Kassian: 5o points in 156 games

I reiterate, those of you who insist Burke will do nothing but undermine the scouting staff and the consensus of some very smart hockey people (because he doesn't like "flag football") and will tell his staff it is, "Ritchie or no one," are so out-to-lunch it's laughable.

If it's Ritchie, I assure all of you that it is the consensus of a lot of people who are well-paid and know a lot more about hockey than you and I ever will.

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#19 Bring Back Tim Hunter
June 21 2014, 11:17AM
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I hope BBBT stay the course. If the flames pick top 4, it looks like they'll land a very good player. With the prospects the Flames have in their system, they should be good soon. Obviously more picks in the first round would be awesome. I just hope Baertschi isn't in play though. It appears that Burky isn't high on him, but I think he is too good to give up on yet.

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#20 Baalzamon
June 21 2014, 07:10PM
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If Travis Sanheim is still there at 24th, do the Flames trade the 34th and 54th to Anaheim to take him? Is it worth it?

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#21 Fire It Up
June 21 2014, 10:30PM
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@Monaertchi

Don't make BBBT a thing.

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#22 DragonFlame
June 22 2014, 05:15PM
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Jeff In Lethbridge wrote:

My point was: Feaster, when in charge, made the decisions, now Burke is in charge... and therefore will have his stamp on decisions.

Your point was: Feaster made bad moves.

your point does not disagree with mine, in fact it supports my point. Yet you launch into childish antics and name calling. You must be WW who, as everyone knows, has multiple personalities. Nobody else would bother to attack me when they are actually in fact reinforcing my point.

You are attacking people the minute you compare them to WW.

Were I WW, my grammar and punctuation would leave something to be desired.

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#23 ultrathinzigzags
June 22 2014, 09:22PM
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if the Flames trade down from their highest draft position ever I will make a baby Oiler in my shorts

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#24 Monaertchi
June 21 2014, 10:53AM
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I could see BBBT making a play for the Leaves pick at 8 if Virtanen is still available. Not sure what it would take, but maybe BB can pull one over on Nonis.

Edit: Virtanen or Ritchie.

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#25 Jeff In Lethbridge
June 21 2014, 11:22AM
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KingQuong wrote:

My ideal scenario would be Either Sam R or Sam B or Ekblad and another top ten ish pick used on Virtanen or Nylander, Maybe package the 2 2nd rounders plus a prospect or roster player maybe both hopefully less and fleece Toronto?

GM's all seem to have a penchant for fishing in familiar waters, so a trade with the Leafs would not surprise me.

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#26 Jeff Lebowski
June 21 2014, 01:55PM
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piscera.infada wrote:

Mentioned it before, apparently Nashville is looking to get immediate, established help for #11 overall. Look at their forwards, either of Hudler or Glencross would be an immediate upgrade in their forward ranks (that team was just horrible). They're over a barrel too, if they don't start winning immediately, no one wants to come out to their games, so they likely (and reportedly) don't care too much about prospects. They want a bona fide NHL player. Toss in a second, a third, or two, and make it happen.

That is my most likely scenario. Get another pick at 11, if they want too much don't do it. But that should be the mantra from management - if they can acquire a pick without giving up a lateral asset (ie. Baertschi, #4 overall), then do it.

I think NSH is a place 20 would waive NTC for. Just because 20 is a cowboy!

If BT inks Vrbata as replacement. At trade deadline I think 20 for a first is doable (if Quincey nets one) but wondering if it happens at draft (draft pick at its highest value compared to lower at trade deadline).

20 has been at around 30 goal pace ...

11 + Hudler + 3rd rounder for 1OA or 2OA or 5OA?

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#27 Reidja
June 22 2014, 09:08AM
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Jeff Lebowski wrote:

Will Nick Ritchie be our Tyler Biggs? I think many are getting worried about this.

I'm not. For 2 reasons: 1- I really think the decision is a BT / TB call. I think they are zeroing in on highest offensive impact. Ritchie is a blend, a hybrid - does many things well but much of his appeal doesn't directly impact scoresheet as the top 4 does.

2- So what if they do pick Ritchie? We have no control, why let it bug you?

Besides, Button has done well of late. If he genuinely likes him ( and not because BB likes him) then he might just be a helluva player.

Also, it's blasphemous to take Ritchie seemingly ONLY because the sources people use to form opinion haven't put him there. Who cares? What do they REALLY know? Just look at some past redraft scenarios. Things change.

If Lucic's draft was done over - where does he go? Where would Bowman, Lombardi and BT/BB slot him? Top 3,5,10?

I really think Flames fans should heed this post above. Not because I love Ritchie, truth be told I've never seen him play live (like many of you, I suspect), but because none of you have that knowledge of the player. Ostracizing an 18 year old because you liked one of the other 18 year olds who you also don't know much about, other than regurgitated scouting reports and YouTube videos, is bad armchair GM stuff. I love the speculation and hope that somehow we can wrangle one of the Sams or Ekblad too but this is really the time to let the guys who get paid, do their job. Should we take Ritchie, tell me he will be a bust 3 years from now when you have expirience to back up the opinion.

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#28 Alt
June 22 2014, 06:03PM
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DragonFlame wrote:

You are attacking people the minute you compare them to WW.

Were I WW, my grammar and punctuation would leave something to be desired.

Get over yourself!

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#29 Austin
June 21 2014, 09:45AM
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Great speculative post!! I would love having the Flames get first but I'm sure there is someone else willing to pay more than Hudler+a prospect. I would rather have us just try and add an extra first rounder (top 15) , and keep our 4th overall. I could also see us trading down to somewhere in the 7-10 range and then take Virtanen, because I feel like Burke is in love with the guy! I'd much rather have Virtanen over Ritchie. Either way, it's gonna be an exciting draft!

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#30 Jeff In Lethbridge
June 21 2014, 11:20AM
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Bring Back Tim Hunter wrote:

I hope BBBT stay the course. If the flames pick top 4, it looks like they'll land a very good player. With the prospects the Flames have in their system, they should be good soon. Obviously more picks in the first round would be awesome. I just hope Baertschi isn't in play though. It appears that Burky isn't high on him, but I think he is too good to give up on yet.

I just ~HOPE~ BBBT stay the course, but I certainly wouldn't bet on it, given Burke's track record and dislike for sitting on his hands or treading water.

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#31 Craig
June 21 2014, 01:40PM
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I'm worried about management going off the board with the #4, just to add size. At the same time, I would love to see some flamesnation draft profiles on guys like Dal Colle and Nick Ritchie to see if their underlying splits (EV/PP team scoring %) point at them being much worse than the consensus top 4.

I just don't see Edmonton taking Draisaitl over one of the sams, that leaves us picking between: Draisaitl, Dal Colle, Ritchie, maybe Virtanen. So I'm definitely most curious to see a profile on them so I can start hyping myself up for one of them instead of lamenting the loss of a Sam.

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#32 DragonFlame
June 21 2014, 09:59PM
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@dotfras

Except the Flames' D finished 10th in NHL scoring among defensemen (despite the injuries), you mean?

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#33 coachedpotatoe
June 22 2014, 07:27AM
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Most of us are having fun speculating about this draft and that's great but I wonder about whats going on with the rest of the roster. We currently only have one goalie signed and need to finalize this; getting some RFA's signed should have been done by now, that ground work should have been done even before BT was hired. I also wonder what Cammi is hearing from other teams in the preUFA kicking tires period; maybe what the Flames have offered sounds good by the time this is over.

Back to the draft speculation: If it's Draisaitl at 4 it would not surprise me to see the Flames trade down or reach for someone else; if it's any of the other guys they use their pick. That's my guess listening to interviews with coaches from around the CHL, head scouts from the various agencies and listening to the Flames management team. It sounds like Florida is holding out for the right deal: if the Leafs as rumor did offer Dion, Kadri and their first and were turned down I can't see us being in the discussion. Florida probably turns this deal down for two reasons; Dions' salary and how low the Leafs pick is and they don't think their guy will still be there with the Leafs pick. I personally think Florida is overvaluing this years pick. In saying that I think the two Canadian teams withe best chance of landing this pick are Vancouver and Ottawa as both have a veteran high end piece that wants out and a drat pick that makes sense for Florida.

When will we see a discussion about the prospects at 34( we need to treat this as a late first rounder), 54 and 64 as this is where this organization can make some serious gains for the futures.

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#34 Rockmorton65
June 22 2014, 04:39PM
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I've said it before and I'll say it again. It would be hilarious if the two Sams went 1-2 and Edm had to choose between Ekblad and Draisaitl, knowing they would be giving us the other one. I'd love to watch MacT and Lowe sweat it out on national tv with Burke smiling in the background. Good times.

That being said, it'd be sweet if we could move up to 1OA without selling the farm.

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#35 The Last Big Bear
June 22 2014, 08:17PM
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wot96 wrote:

If we are content with the Shelbyville Strategy for a year, Calgary does trade a top six forward and an asset or two, whether picks or players, for a second but later first round pick. That second first round pick probably won't play in the NHL next year and there is a good chance the first first round pick won't either.

Any scenario in which the Flames trade one of their better (or expensive) roster players for a later first round pick also involves having to spend more in free agency regardless of what they do with Cammy even if they keep some salary of whomever they trade. They would have to spend even more on some rebuild rentals if they don't resign Cammy.

With the roster the Flames have, some expect them to regress (though I'm not sure that happens if Johnny G is playing and the Flames resign Cammy). However, if the Flames regress, that would push Calgary into one of the top three spots next year, barring being torpedoed at the lottery. If Calgary trades a Hudler or Glencross and doesn't resign Cammy, I don't see them getting better.

In so doing, they might have a chance at the generational talent at the very top in 2015. Hitting the cap floor this year will be hard unless they keep salary.

So who's okay with regressing slightly to pick up better chance at a generational talent next year?

Yes, I think the Flames regress this year.

The only concern I have is whether or not this will impact the corporate culture we've seen that appears to be establishing itself in the Flames, of hard work and determination, and not-quittingness.

The 2013-14 season was a good one for me, better than the previous seasons in which the team finished higher in the standings.

How I view the 2014-15 will likewise have nothing to do with how they finish in the standings, and very little to do with whether or not they land Connor McDavid. It will depend on how it looks like the rebuild is going as a whole.

If you had told me last summer that Sven would be sent back to the AHL, and Monahan would be stuck in a major role all season as the Flames plummet into Oilers territory in the standings, I would have called that a failure, but in the end I'm happy with the season, because the rebuild as a whole looks like it is going well.

So I will take a holistic view on next season, and not fuss about standings, draft position, or certain players progressing or regressing.

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#36 BurningSensation
June 21 2014, 02:59PM
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Jeff Lebowski wrote:

I think NSH is a place 20 would waive NTC for. Just because 20 is a cowboy!

If BT inks Vrbata as replacement. At trade deadline I think 20 for a first is doable (if Quincey nets one) but wondering if it happens at draft (draft pick at its highest value compared to lower at trade deadline).

20 has been at around 30 goal pace ...

11 + Hudler + 3rd rounder for 1OA or 2OA or 5OA?

Given that the Leafs reportedly offered; Kadri, Gardiner and a swap of picks for #1OA, I'd say your offer is light.

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#37 dotfras
June 21 2014, 09:15PM
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Hoping for a repeat of last year where the top D prospect falls to us. Ekblad is NHL ready and immediately improves our team. We go into Free Agency, add a second pairing Dman and our Defense looks solid.

We have a ton of LW & C depth and little Defense depth.

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#38 dotfras
June 21 2014, 11:11PM
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DragonFlame wrote:

Except the Flames' D finished 10th in NHL scoring among defensemen (despite the injuries), you mean?

Kind of irrelevant. Scoring does not mean depth. It means Gio & Brodie had a lot of points.

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#39 Graham
June 22 2014, 08:19AM
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To be honest, I am sick and tired of the Flames trading down to add another draft pick. The Flames have plenty of low to mid level prospects, so adding another by trading down adds little to the organization. The Flames really need high end prospects, so you either look at trading up (but I don't think the price will be worth it) package the fourth pick in a trade, or take the pick. Best advice for Burke and Treliving is to keep it simple on draft day.

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#40 Tonk
June 22 2014, 10:37AM
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I am not a fan of the trade down from 4 plan but I am prepared to see it. It has taken some time but if the chips fall a certain way I believe it may even be the best scenario. Or making the best of the situation, which is what we hope the Flame do.

Trying to read between the lines and read minds I believe I know what the various Flames are getting at when they talk about a top 6 or even 8. Based on interviews and other scouting (not viewing) I think the Flames see a top 3, and deep down I think most agree. I am totally sold on taking Ekblad or which ever Sam falls to 4, but if Draisaitl falls to 4 I am not sure it is as clear cut. Lets face it Draisaitl is the only one of the 4 that would shock you if he went first overall.

I think it could be said that Draisaitl is the best of the next 3+2. DalColle and of course Ritchie also offer things the Flames covet, character and size with a level of skill. Now at this level some organizations may even be looking at Ehlers and Nylander, they are the +2. These 5 could be shuffled how you like depending on the "type of player you are looking to draft" (that is a loose BB quote).

So if a trade down can be made with someone looking to get to Ehlers/Nylander and the flames are still in range to get at DalColle/Ritchie (and yes the target may be Ritchie) and have the ammunition for another first round pick... So we could go from taking Draisaitl at 4 to Ritchie and Sanheim (my personal choice, insert your favourite). That would make the Ritchie choice much easier to swallow.

Now that is a fair bit of horse trading, and none of it should be finalized before the 3 pick is made. The one thing I like about Burk is he will swing for the fences and you know Trelivng would like to make a splash.

So if I have to swallow Ritchie at 4, I will put on my best fan face and wait see if he turns out to be what Burk loves, before I loose my mind and go on rants about how they blew it. But I am truly hoping the Oilers are as hard for Draisaitl as some say and we are bringing a Sam to Calgary.

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#41 Colin.S
June 21 2014, 10:31AM
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I've seen Sportsnet now rate Bennet as the #1 prospect on their draft list. Hopefully with the little bit of negative press that Reinhart got along with all the heaping praise Bennet is currently getting I somehow hope that Reinhart falls to four.

I think that's a perfect test of management. If he falls to four and we don't pick him, something is seriously wrong.

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#42 Lordmork
June 21 2014, 10:58AM
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Obviously, the Flames should do whatever nets the team the most/best assets.

I wonder if we're talking to Toronto about Gardiner/Kadri. I keep hearing that Toronto is, if not actively shopping them, then floating their names as trade bait.

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#43 T&A4Flames
June 21 2014, 11:26AM
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If the 1st scenario played out, would CGY look to drop down from the 4th OA and regain assets as well as a later top 10 pick.

Kent' slog yesterday speculated BT was trying to acquire another top 10 pick. What realistically would it take to get the 5th OA from the NYI? Hudler/Wideman + later pick?

What teams in the top, say, 12, are more interested in immediate improvement instead of patience through drafting? What's Francis' plan with CAR?

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#44 piscera.infada
June 21 2014, 03:25PM
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@Jeff Lebowski

Sorry guys, I just don't see the logic in trading for the #1 pick. You lose Hudler and Glencross, this team is going to be even worse than it looks now - not to mention with more gaping holes, as well as even less spent to the cap. I can see a Hudler trade because he has term, a reasonable cap-hit, and is coming of a strong season.

If you go into the draft with #4 and #11 you're laughing (think Reinhart/Bennett/Draisaitl and Virtanen/Fleury for example). Quite simply though, the cost to move to first overall is going to have to be a whale of a package for what could be great or what could just as easily not be great.

As I said earlier, I'm not a fan of acquiring any draft pick if it means a lateral exchange. Why give up Baertschi and a 2nd or 3rd (and possibly more) to be able to draft 7th - 11th? You're hoping that prospect can do what Baertschi has done in his short time as a pro (remember, this was his second year as a pro between the AHL and NHL).

Personally, I make the trade with Nashville if I can give up a player that will help them now, but unequivocally won't help us long-term - if you have to throw in a later pick to make it work, that's fine. This simply means that trading away real talent for prospective talent (ie. the move to first overall), just seems like a waste that is sure to backfire.

Moreover, if they do in fact, end up trading the world to Florida for the first overall pick it will confirm one thing to me: that the BB/BT experiment is more about optics than it is about building a contender. It would be one thing to sell the farm for the chance to draft a player with known generational upside, but none of the players in this draft look like that at this time (that not to say no one will end up that way). It's fine to make a splash, but it needs to be a calculated move so it doesn't end up an unmitigated disaster.

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#45 MonsterPod
June 21 2014, 03:47PM
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This all depends on what the management wants. The phones ring between picks. If the Flames keep their pick and both Sams are gone, they may not want Draisaitl and decide to pull the trigger on someone's offer to drop down -- flip picks with Toronto perhaps and take Ritchie/Virtanen/Fleury.

But if Edmonton is in love with Draisaitl and one of the Sams is there for us, then maybe we take him. They will not trade the pick until they see how the chips are falling. Did anybody in the draft world expect to see Seth Jones drop to #4? Maybe a drop to #2, but certainly not #4.

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#46 DragonFlame
June 21 2014, 04:36PM
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piscera.infada wrote:

Mentioned it before, apparently Nashville is looking to get immediate, established help for #11 overall. Look at their forwards, either of Hudler or Glencross would be an immediate upgrade in their forward ranks (that team was just horrible). They're over a barrel too, if they don't start winning immediately, no one wants to come out to their games, so they likely (and reportedly) don't care too much about prospects. They want a bona fide NHL player. Toss in a second, a third, or two, and make it happen.

That is my most likely scenario. Get another pick at 11, if they want too much don't do it. But that should be the mantra from management - if they can acquire a pick without giving up a lateral asset (ie. Baertschi, #4 overall), then do it.

Trading Hudler or Glencross to gain another pick would be fine, I suppose, except the Flames still have to replace one of these players salaries and add even more salary just to get to the cap floor. Any other year (when some truly decent UFA's hit the market), I think it would be a great idea, but this year's UFA crop looks awfully bleak.

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#47 RexLibris
June 21 2014, 10:04PM
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Lowetide held a mock draft of top ten picks today using media members from each city, including the inimitable Kent Wilson.

I only caught the top four but it went Ekblad, Reinhart, Bennett (LT's choice), at which point Kent took Draisaitl.

For the record I think it shakes down as Ekblad, Reinhart, Draisaitl, Bennett - barring trade.

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#48 Kevin R
June 22 2014, 09:09AM
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Graham wrote:

To be honest, I am sick and tired of the Flames trading down to add another draft pick. The Flames have plenty of low to mid level prospects, so adding another by trading down adds little to the organization. The Flames really need high end prospects, so you either look at trading up (but I don't think the price will be worth it) package the fourth pick in a trade, or take the pick. Best advice for Burke and Treliving is to keep it simple on draft day.

Agreed. Keep the 4th pick & take who ever is left of the big 4. Any GM would listen to any offers for that 4th & if it's not a whaacko price,lets just take whose left. For the life of me I have no idea why everyone is so down on the German kid. He is a big Johhny hockey with skills. I have no qualms adding this kind of player to our stables. I have no problem trading Hudler or GlenX to pick up a top 3rd 1st rounder either. If Nashville or Anaheim(Ottawas pick) are trolling, why not, it's hard not to spend money to get to the cap floor. There are some teams that are in big Cap dodo like Boston. We may be able to get a Boychuk for a very reasonable price.

Too many worry about BB or BT doing some wild deal & the comments are retarded. These guys are hockey people & they aren't stupid. There is no magical GM shortcut to this rebuild, they know that, just very astute moves is all I expect from the Flames come Friday.

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#49 Monaertchi
June 22 2014, 10:29AM
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@Kevin R

I generally agree with your comment above, but we don't actually know for sure that "they aren't stupid" or that they think that "There is no magical GM shortcut to this rebuild".

I hope for astute moves, but I'm certainly not ruling out BBBT (sorry @FireItUp, this is happening) going for size and truculence over NHL level skill.

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#50 BurningSensation
June 22 2014, 11:27AM
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MK? LOL wrote:

@ mk

"I like all the options where 'Edmonton weeps'. I generally enjoy this happening. I'm actually kind of hoping that Edmonton trades up to #1 overall and then the kid flat out refuses to sign with them."

Cowboy hat on too tight for ya? LOL

I bet you have a teeny willy and drive a big truck. Heehehee

Your obsession with poster's willies is a clear indication you are in the wrong place.

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