Random Thoughts: To Move up or Not to Move up

Kent Wilson
June 06 2014 09:00AM

It's June so naturally the hottest topic is the entry draft. Calgary is at 4, the highest this organization has ever picked, but there's talk of both the first (FLA) and second (BUF) overall picks being available for a price. Should the Flames make the move to ensure a shot at either Sam Reinhart or Aaron Ekblad? That obviously depends on a number of factors.

- Before we delve too deep, let's establish that at least part of the reason two of the worst clubs in the league are willing to move their picks is because there isn't an obvious generational talent in this year's draft class. You can bet next year when McDavid is available that there will be no talk of #1 overall being moved.

Which means the Flames probably don't have a great deal to gain by moving up two or three spots. There's a nearly 100% chance a comparably high-end player will be available to them at 4, meaning the only reason to contemplate moving up is the asking price isn't outrageous.

- In an ideal world, the club would find a way to keep #4 while also garnering #1 or #2, but realistically any move up would involve Calgary's pick. What remains is what other assets it would take to get the job done. Given Florida and Buffalo both need a lot of established NHL talent rather than lottery tickets, you can bet the discussion would start with one of Mark Giordano or TJ Brodie. Aside from them and maybe Mikael Backlund, the Flames don't have established pieces that would move the needle in this sort of deal. And no, Curtis Glencross and Jiri Hudler aren't going to do it.

- The Fan morning show was pondering the hypothetical of moving Brodie to get 1st overall to pick Ekblad recently. I wouldn't do it - we know Brodie is already an excellent NHLer at 23 years old and there's still a chance he'll become an exceptional one. The Flames need to add those sorts of players - to build on that number - not rob Peter to pay Paul so to speak. Ekblad seems like a high quality prospect, but I'm not confident in anyone's ability to project the future of 18-year old defenders with enough accuracy to move a sure-thing in Brodie. You might get a Doughty or Victor Hedman with Aaron Ekblad, but you also might get an Erik Johnson or Zach Bogosian.

- Related: I don't think a lot of folks grasp just how good TJ Brodie is yet. His underlying results from the last two seasons are outstanding. If he runs in place possession-wise and adds a touch more offense to his game, he's an elite defender. No player is untradeable, but he's one of the few guys I'd consider nigh untouchable on this roster.

- On the other hand, picking Ekblad would certainly fill an organizational need given how thin the Flames d-ranks currently are, starting at the 3rd pairing in the NHL (and maybe the 2nd). If he falls to 4 (and Sam Reinhart and Sam Bennett are gone), I'd have no issue with the Flames picking him (though I wouldn't expect him to make it past the Oilers at 3).

- While I hope the Flames land one of the Sam's, if I had to guess I think they end up with either Draisaitl or Dal Colle, depending on how the draft goes and who the organization prefers.Given his numbers and the scouting reports describing a sky high hockey IQ, Sam Reinhart is currently #1 on my wish list, but I may change my mind when I comb through the numbers this month.

- Moving away from the draft for now, Tyler Dellow shared this spreadsheet of the Flames "open play" corsi numbers on twitter recently.

CGYOpenplay

"Open play" possession numbers is a way to correct for starting position factors. Essentially, it includes all the action 30 seconds after each offensive or defensive zone draw, so things aren't skewed by the position of the draw. If a player doesn't show up here, he was sub-.420 on the season (which is abjectly awful).

- There aren't any big surprises, except for maybe Curtis Glencross. His 42.6% is absolutely ghastly and points to a significant problem with the player. Although one is tempted to blame health problems, Flames fans should recall his first 10 games of the season were terrible by eye and by math. While a functional Curtis Glencross is a boon to this team, the guy who showed up this past year is an anvil tied to the asses of his line mates. He needs to be better or he needs to be gone.

- Dennis Wideman and Chris Butler were basically the same player by this measure last season. That is a terrible indictment of Wideman. Calgary needs to keep him for the purpose of getting to the cap floor (absent something really drastic happening in July), but...yeesh. He needs to rebound hard to merely have a bad contract.

- Also showing up near the bottom of the chart: David Jones and Shane O'Brien. Though his work was definitely a mixed bag in town, I think we can all agree Jay Feaster got worked in that Colorado deal.

- The addition of O'Brien in the trade is an example of how a flawed process can lead you down the wrong player acquisition path. O'Brien was essentially swapped for Cory Sarich, who had been re-signed to a two year contract the summer before (despite spending a lot of time on the third pairing or in the press box). I remember being baffled by the move and talking to some of the local media after Sarich was inked. They explained the decision makers felt the Flames blueline needed more grit/toughness and that Sarich the only attainable player in that mould at the time.

To which I say - stop elevating player category above player quality. The former should always be subordinate to the latter, or else you are privileging style over content. The Flames need some grit on their blueline? Maybe, but it doesn't help them if the guy you get to do that can't reliably play hockey at this level.

39d8109299a9795cb3b41a4e9b49d501
Former Nations Overlord. Current FN contributor and curmudgeon For questions, complaints, criticisms, etc contact Kent @ kent.wilson@gmail. Follow him on Twitter here.
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#51 Byron Bader
June 06 2014, 02:50PM
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@PrairieStew

All 4 of the players expected to go top 4 have better equivalency numbers than the each of the comparisons listed. All of the forwards in the top 4 this year fall into the category I've deemed "almost can't miss" as there's a very strong likelihood you have a 40-80 point per season player (based on players that have scored similar in their draft year). None of the comparables listed fall in to the "almost can't miss" category ... they all reside in that "hit or miss" zone. I think the top 4 will be fine. Whether we get the best one out of the 4, who knows. Should be a pretty decent player either way though.

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#52 BurningSensation
June 06 2014, 03:12PM
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PrairieStew wrote:

Bigger worry

Ekblad = Alex Plante

Reinhart = Zach Hamill

Draisatl = Nino Niderieter

Bennett = Scott Glennie

All top 10 picks in last 7 years. Those guys you mention were far lower picks.

Rusty Klesla was in fact 1st overall his draft year, but I take your point, the others were found lower down in the draft.

I was merely trying to match up skill sets and body types with historically similar players.

The real point I was making is that if we land a guy like Bennett, and he turns out to be a 50-60 point shift disturbing winger, that's about what we should expect from a weak draft year.

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#53 McRib
June 06 2014, 03:14PM
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@PrairieStew

"Draisatl = Nino Niderieter"

Nino Niderieter is only 21 years old and scored 36 points last season... He is a long way from being a bust he likely ends up as a 50-60 point guys during his career... Leon Draisaitl is so unbelievably smart I would never compare him to an Athletic guy like Niderieter that dominated junior because of natural abilities anyway.

Scott Glennie benefited from playing on a line with two future NHLers (Schenn, Calvert) his draft year... Whereas Sam Bennett is making players like Spencer Watson and Roland McKeown better... The team that drafts Spencer Watson is getting the bust.

Aaron Ekblad had 23 goals this season, Alex Plante (18) didn't have that many goals in his entire WHL career. Zach Hamill played on a line with two NHL first rounder’s his draft year, including Peter Mueller who was looking like a stud until injuries. Kyle Beach was also incredibily talented at 16, but had a ten cent head and threw it all way. After Hamills draft year Beach was projected the following season as a Top. 5 until everyone realized how much of a dummy he was.

I think anyone who is certain there is a bust in these Top 4 picks is crazy. Obviously some will have better careers than other, but I just don't see it. All of these players were team leaders on good playoff CHL Teams, Whereas all of those busts were on deep teams riding other more talented peoples coat tails.

For me I think Aaron Ekblad has the lowest ceiling which is why I prefer the forwards and I actually think Leon Draisaitl has the highest ceiling if he continues to improve skating (there is a reason scouts are comparing him to Jagr endlessley, although I think he ends up as a Mikko Koivu worstcase).

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#54 Baalzamon
June 06 2014, 03:17PM
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@BurningSensation

Rusty Klesla was in fact 1st overall his draft year...

4th actually

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#55 Lordmork
June 06 2014, 03:30PM
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This post raises an interesting question for me, on the topic of Mark Giordano. When should the Flames trade him?

Gio is 30. He's the Flames' captain, and his play last season was excellent. He's signed to a very reasonable deal for the next two years. There's every reason to keep him, because it seems likely that he'll continue to be both a good hockey player, and the hard-working leader the team needs right now.

But from an asset management point of view, is right now the height of his value? Is he likely to repeat the season's excellence come September? At 30, his play could be in steep decline by the time the Flames are ready to compete for a cup. Not long ago, the Flames held onto some skilled but ageing players for too long, and the return on those players was either underwhelming, or non-existent. At what point does the team have to look at a decline in value versus what he brings to a rebuilding team?

I have no idea, so I throw this out there.

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#56 BurningSensation
June 06 2014, 03:38PM
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Baalzamon wrote:
Rusty Klesla was in fact 1st overall his draft year...

4th actually

I have to admit, I was so sure that he went 1st overall his draft year, I went and looked back at the draft order to see for myself.

You are right, I stand corrected.

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#57 SmellOfVictory
June 06 2014, 03:43PM
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Lordmork wrote:

This post raises an interesting question for me, on the topic of Mark Giordano. When should the Flames trade him?

Gio is 30. He's the Flames' captain, and his play last season was excellent. He's signed to a very reasonable deal for the next two years. There's every reason to keep him, because it seems likely that he'll continue to be both a good hockey player, and the hard-working leader the team needs right now.

But from an asset management point of view, is right now the height of his value? Is he likely to repeat the season's excellence come September? At 30, his play could be in steep decline by the time the Flames are ready to compete for a cup. Not long ago, the Flames held onto some skilled but ageing players for too long, and the return on those players was either underwhelming, or non-existent. At what point does the team have to look at a decline in value versus what he brings to a rebuilding team?

I have no idea, so I throw this out there.

From an asset management point of view, sometimes you have to hold onto what you've got, even if you're rebuilding. Could they get a king's ransom for Gio? Absolutely. Is this the peak of his value? Almost certainly. Is the team better off with him than with the return they get for him? It seems entirely likely.

Impossible to quantify as things like leadership and intangibles (hence the name) are, a guy who is as well-regarded and respected as Giordano on a team that's relatively thin on veterans is someone you have to hold onto, I think. The Flames also need someone to take on the heavies while the young guys grow, and Gio/Brodie are a perfect pairing for that.

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#58 Stubblejumper
June 06 2014, 03:46PM
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Stubblejumper wrote:

STRAW POLL #3

Results so far:

Reinhart is preferred over Bennett (32 to 17) who in turn is preferred over Draisaitl (92 to 23).

For STRAW POLL #3 ...if you were faced with the choice of drafting either Ekblad OR Reinhart who would you choose:

TRASH to vote for Ekblad;

PROPS to vote for Reinhart.

STRAW POLL #3 - Interim

So far it's a dead heat with Ekblad (14) and Reinhart (16).

The poll was buried just before the turn at 50 comments...will leave it for a few more for anyone who hasn't voted.

Again TRASH for Ekblad; PROPS for Reinhart.

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#59 PrairieStew
June 06 2014, 04:08PM
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McRib wrote:

"Draisatl = Nino Niderieter"

Nino Niderieter is only 21 years old and scored 36 points last season... He is a long way from being a bust he likely ends up as a 50-60 point guys during his career... Leon Draisaitl is so unbelievably smart I would never compare him to an Athletic guy like Niderieter that dominated junior because of natural abilities anyway.

Scott Glennie benefited from playing on a line with two future NHLers (Schenn, Calvert) his draft year... Whereas Sam Bennett is making players like Spencer Watson and Roland McKeown better... The team that drafts Spencer Watson is getting the bust.

Aaron Ekblad had 23 goals this season, Alex Plante (18) didn't have that many goals in his entire WHL career. Zach Hamill played on a line with two NHL first rounder’s his draft year, including Peter Mueller who was looking like a stud until injuries. Kyle Beach was also incredibily talented at 16, but had a ten cent head and threw it all way. After Hamills draft year Beach was projected the following season as a Top. 5 until everyone realized how much of a dummy he was.

I think anyone who is certain there is a bust in these Top 4 picks is crazy. Obviously some will have better careers than other, but I just don't see it. All of these players were team leaders on good playoff CHL Teams, Whereas all of those busts were on deep teams riding other more talented peoples coat tails.

For me I think Aaron Ekblad has the lowest ceiling which is why I prefer the forwards and I actually think Leon Draisaitl has the highest ceiling if he continues to improve skating (there is a reason scouts are comparing him to Jagr endlessley, although I think he ends up as a Mikko Koivu worstcase).

My post in response to Burningsensation was to point out that these top 4 guys could end up being a whole lot worse than the 4 names he posed with the preamble " my biggest worry ". If they turn out as good as Klesla et al that's actually not that bad. The truth is that they could be a whole lot worse.

You can drill down and compare goals and linemates and say these guys are defintely going to be better than those I just threw up there but the fact is that you just don't know. There remains plenty of misses over the years in the first round and even some pretty bad ones in the top five picks ; Hickey (starting to show), Barker, Svitov, Chistov, Dipietro, Stefan, Brendl, Volchkov, R Jackman, Bonsignore.

To me the 18 year old draft remains hockey's most ridiculous crapshoot. They should limit 18 year olds to the first round only - giving that extra year of development for most to see where a guy is really going to be.

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#60 Dave
June 06 2014, 04:29PM
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Just went back to the article here on FN when Feaster traded Sarich and Tanguay, and it seems like a pretty 50/50 split on whether or not commenters saw the deal as bad. Some ppl said it was good because the Flames got younger and got rid of a guy who didnt wanna play here anymore (Tanguay). The ppl who said it was bad said that the move was lateral, the Flames had picked up a has-been goal scorer and a replacement level defenceman, and O'Brien was signed for 1 year longer than Sarich.

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#61 coachedpotatoe
June 06 2014, 04:46PM
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So it's been settled; the flames will take the left overs from Ekbald, Bennett, Rhino or Dras. THe question is will they attempt to acquire another first rounder to try and gets Burke boy "Ritchie"; Burke sure sounded high on him.

At some time will we discuss the possibilities for the second and third round as this will have huge implications for the flames.

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#62 BJ
June 06 2014, 05:24PM
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This post is pointless.... a deal aint a happenin... There is nothing that makes sense for CGY that interests FLA and there is nothing that interests FLA that isnt a gross overpayment.

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#63 BJ
June 06 2014, 05:32PM
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I am also sick to death of all the armchair scouts on this site posting about the potential of certain prospects... there are 30 NHL teams that employ staff that all know more than you... stop posting and trying to project prospects. unless you have credentials to back up your opinions...

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#64 Primo
June 06 2014, 06:39PM
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BurningSensation wrote:

My biggest worry;

Ekblad = Rostislav Klesla.

Reinhart = Mike Ribeiro.

Draisatl = Jozef Stumpel.

Bennett = Brad Marchand

All of whom are legit NHL players, but none of whom are elite.

Let me offer the "glass half full" approach....

Ekblad = Duncan Keith

Reinhart = Joe Niewendyk

Draistl = Peter Forsberg

Bennett = Doug Gilmour

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#65 coachedpotatoe
June 06 2014, 06:40PM
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BJ wrote:

I am also sick to death of all the armchair scouts on this site posting about the potential of certain prospects... there are 30 NHL teams that employ staff that all know more than you... stop posting and trying to project prospects. unless you have credentials to back up your opinions...

BJ: I have a better solution, quite reading.

This IS a PLACE for us fans to play GM and scouts.

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#66 BobbyO
June 06 2014, 06:49PM
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Dave wrote:

Just went back to the article here on FN when Feaster traded Sarich and Tanguay, and it seems like a pretty 50/50 split on whether or not commenters saw the deal as bad. Some ppl said it was good because the Flames got younger and got rid of a guy who didnt wanna play here anymore (Tanguay). The ppl who said it was bad said that the move was lateral, the Flames had picked up a has-been goal scorer and a replacement level defenceman, and O'Brien was signed for 1 year longer than Sarich.

My view of that trade was an exchange of bad contracts involving players that needed a change of scenery badly!

With Patrick Roy having a relationship with Tanguay what an opportunity for Feaster to unload Tanguay who he granted a ridiculous value and term for a hockey player with chronic hip and knee issues! The main incentive to sign him was his friendship and chemistry with Iginla. Once Iggy was gone then Tanguay was history and had no desire to be in Calgary.

Unfortunately you gain a bad contract in return (Jones), also over paid / unreasonable term with injury issues.

The OB for Sarich was an exchange of low value over paid contracts. Rumour was that OB had major discipline issues with the Avs and Sarich was extended 1 year too long by Feaster.

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#67 Primo
June 06 2014, 06:52PM
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@coachedpotatoe

Right on!!!

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#68 Stubblejumper
June 06 2014, 06:55PM
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coachedpotatoe wrote:

So it's been settled; the flames will take the left overs from Ekbald, Bennett, Rhino or Dras. THe question is will they attempt to acquire another first rounder to try and gets Burke boy "Ritchie"; Burke sure sounded high on him.

At some time will we discuss the possibilities for the second and third round as this will have huge implications for the flames.

STRAW POLLS - RESULTS TO DATE

Tied for #1 Choice: Reinhart vs Ekblad

Reinhart/Ekblad are favoured ~2:1 over 3rd Choice Bennett.

Bennett in turn is favoured ~4:1 over 4th choice Draisaitl

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#69 Stubblejumper
June 06 2014, 06:56PM
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@coachedpotatoe

Personally I am still thankful the Islanders won their last game of the season and allowed the Flames the opportunity to get the #4 pick.

Like CP and BBader, I for one would be very happy to get any of the top 4 including Draisaitl, more in many respects than Bennett or Reinhart..one only has to look at Kopitar's performance this playoff to see why.

Having strength/size down the middle with two 6'2" centres is priceless.

Bennett has some great qualities but not sure his body is built to withstand the punishment of his temperament (see Hall, Taylor).

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#70 Stubblejumper
June 06 2014, 07:11PM
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Regarding the Flames getting another 1st round pick, I agree with those thinking

- there is no reason to move up to get FLA #1 pick...marginal net benefit requiring a high cost, which would require giving up our #4 pick.

- the Flames would be much better to explore obtaining a second 1st round pick (#10-#20 preferably) to add to their #4 pick, and using it to select a top-ranked RW or RD.

The cost of obtaining the 1st rounder would involve giving up a roster player, a prospect and the #35 overall 2nd round pick. The Flames have a logjam of prospects at LW and C and, as Burke stated prior, will use trades to even out positional strength.

The Flames are in a great position right now. Loved hearing Burke's comments yesterday about building through the draft and through trades, rather than overpaying on older Free Agents.

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#71 Baalzamon
June 06 2014, 07:11PM
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@BJ

So why exactly do you think any of us is here? This is the whole point. It's a place for us to discuss the state of our team, speculate on what they will do and what they should do. To voice our opinions, get excited about things, and peeved about others.

But you're right. Let's just shut the site down because there are professionals whose job it is to make these decisions and evaluate these players. What right does any of us have to express an opinion on anything?

For that matter, what right do we have to discuss decisions our government makes, much less disagree with them? Those politicians are the experts, we should just let them do the thinking for us.

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#72 Stubblejumper
June 06 2014, 07:30PM
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@Stubblejumper

It would be spectacular if the Flames were able to come out of this draft with:

A 1C/2C or 1RD

A 1RW/2RW or 2RD/2LD

The Flames currently are developing a nice young dynamic Top 6 including Monahan, Gaudreau, Poirier, Baertschi, Klimchuk, Colborne ...that's 5 1st rounders plus Gaudreau.

Add in C Draisaitl/Bennett/Reinhart AND either RW Virtanen/Tuch/Point OR D Fleury/DeAngelo/Honka/McKeown and the Flames will be set for years!

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#73 BJ
June 06 2014, 07:45PM
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@Baalzamon

Not saying shut the site down... im specifically talking about projecting prospects who arent even drafted... its useless and has as much to do with talent as a persons character... i think it is great to discuss the state of the team. i love reading well thought out trade proposals and GOOD analysis of the team... but too many people pointlessly bicker about how prospect projects and the opinions are so extreme and out to lunch... some say Ekblad is a for sure Franchise D and some say the opposite... all i am doing is being honest and admitting i dont have a clue about how an eighteen year olds (who has his whole life ahead of him) career will turn out.

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#74 BJ
June 06 2014, 07:47PM
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@coachedpotatoe

I have no problem reading posts from fans that are well thought out and honest. No one here knows how a prospect will turn so to have such strong opinions of kids like Ekblad to me is silly... not trying to cut everyone down on the site... just sick of reading posts that are baseless

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#75 coachedpotatoe
June 06 2014, 08:01PM
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BJ wrote:

I have no problem reading posts from fans that are well thought out and honest. No one here knows how a prospect will turn so to have such strong opinions of kids like Ekblad to me is silly... not trying to cut everyone down on the site... just sick of reading posts that are baseless

Even the scouts get it wrong.(lots and lots of times just look at the Flames draft history) Many of the writers on this sight have seen many games (way more than me, I only saw one at the rink and came away not being impressed by Jake V, but it was one game) I for one make my views based upon what I read and hear from the scouts(as many reports a possible) and their reports and make my judgements based upon how I would build the team. But that is the fun of this sight.

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#76 Stubblejumper
June 06 2014, 08:11PM
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BJ wrote:

I have no problem reading posts from fans that are well thought out and honest. No one here knows how a prospect will turn so to have such strong opinions of kids like Ekblad to me is silly... not trying to cut everyone down on the site... just sick of reading posts that are baseless

I can't help but feel many would say YOUR posts are baseless as they are singularly critical, lack any constructive comment or opinion, and are wholly judgmental by determining who's opinions you feel are relevant or well-written or suit your personal taste.

In my experience, the discussions on this site are generally reasoned, well thought-out, intelligent and positive. The same cannot be said of most sites.

As stated no one is forcing you to read if you feel it doesn't meet with your sensibilities. However attacking contributors because you don't happen to share their opinions or write what you are interested in is not acceptable.

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#77 BJ
June 06 2014, 08:14PM
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Exactly I agree with everything you said... Its the same as the Janko thing... we are not gonna know for 4 or 5 years whether a prospect pans out or not... its the one aspect of the comments on this site that drives me nuts....

trust me i know anyone can get it wrong thats why I dont get the bickering and strong opinions about prospects.... i guess iam a wait and see kinda guy before i blindly give judgment

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#78 BJ
June 06 2014, 08:17PM
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Its just so much hype and the people involved are young they may not even end up wanting to be pro athletes... its kind of unfair to them

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#79 Chambers
June 06 2014, 08:20PM
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BJ wrote:

I have no problem reading posts from fans that are well thought out and honest. No one here knows how a prospect will turn so to have such strong opinions of kids like Ekblad to me is silly... not trying to cut everyone down on the site... just sick of reading posts that are baseless

If you think the posts are baseless then you have the option of "trashing" the post or offering back some constructive comment. The website is intended to allow hockey opinions recognizing there are varying degrees of hockey knowledge.

Another option you have is to sign off and post with Oiler Nation...and take WW with you!

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#80 BJ
June 06 2014, 08:22PM
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Stubblejumper wrote:

I can't help but feel many would say YOUR posts are baseless as they are singularly critical, lack any constructive comment or opinion, and are wholly judgmental by determining who's opinions you feel are relevant or well-written or suit your personal taste.

In my experience, the discussions on this site are generally reasoned, well thought-out, intelligent and positive. The same cannot be said of most sites.

As stated no one is forcing you to read if you feel it doesn't meet with your sensibilities. However attacking contributors because you don't happen to share their opinions or write what you are interested in is not acceptable.

Ok ill try to be better but I am super busy with no time to go into depth or analysis of the flames... i look forward every day to tune into this site to get my analysis... i am only posting because some of the things i have been reading are aggravating.... i think it is unfair for people on this site to have opinions of other people who are just young kids especialy when you dont knowthem. its unfair

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#81 44stampede
June 06 2014, 08:32PM
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BJ wrote:

Its just so much hype and the people involved are young they may not even end up wanting to be pro athletes... its kind of unfair to them

This is a place for opinions. That is one big reason I read it. It is different than the normal crap that people copy and spew out without researching. If you want politically correct and opinions that don't hurt feeling then that is what the MSM is for.

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#82 BJ
June 06 2014, 08:37PM
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@Chambers

Ok here is my basis: the posts on this site that hype or tear down prospects are unfair and not constructive to the flames. Think about how much Sven has been hyped. I like him as a prospect buy how does the hype help him... that is a young kid from swiss who has this huge pressure of being a top scorer for the flames... hes been hyped as much.

My point is that hype is not rational... it does not help the team and it does not help in analysis.

Think about it man if you are a GM you are not talking about Janko like this... you are hoping and praying he turns into something... i cant understand why i would post on oilers nation... that is totally baseless

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#83 Chambers
June 06 2014, 08:52PM
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@BJ

I actually can relate to what you are saying. There are certainly many ridiculous posts involving Janko, trade proposals and high criticism of youngsters in their teens.

I bite my tongue and take out my frustration on the trash button and shake my head at some of the comments. Aso I might add theta the majority of comments are of high intellect and I actually admire the knowledge that some fans have.

Like you I do not have the time to get into a tremendous amount of depth.

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#84 BJ
June 06 2014, 09:04PM
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@Chambers

For sure and i never meant to impose that i have a lot of hockey knowledge... i didnt even get to watch most flames games this year... but i do know for sure what i dont know... and there is so much more interesting stuff to talk about.... should we try to acquire another 1st? Here is a question for you... for me draisaitl and dal colle are interestinflg... if you are the gm who takes them or passes on them you could end up regretting it.... but... what if you have a Fleury or a Nylander ranked higher on your list.... is it going off the board at 4 or 5 to pass on draisaitl or dal colle ?

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#85 T&A4Flames
June 06 2014, 09:07PM
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@BJ

Then, don't read speculative type blogs or, especially, the comments. A lot of us here like to discuss these sorts of things.

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#86 Chambers
June 06 2014, 09:31PM
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@BJ

If I'm GM and rebuilding the Flames I would never draft a goalie or a winger in the first round. I believe a top D-man or highly skilled Centre is how you successfully start to build a team.

As far as the 2014 draft is concerned it is a weak draft OTHER than the top 4 guys who I consider to be elite.

Selecting the right player 4th overall is obviously a no brainer for the Flames....the subsequent selections will be critical and difficult. That means not giving up any core veterans for draft choices, at least not until the 2015 draft!

My 2 cents worth...

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#87 BJ
June 06 2014, 09:38PM
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@BJ

I think you are right that I am singularly critical and i was not trying to attack anyone... but if this is a forum then arenylt my opinions valid as well if they differ? Dont hold me to a double standard... i just think itis unfair to write off young kids who have not played a game of pro hockey... if you have noticed that is mainly what I post about.

When kent wilson wrote off Joe Colborne at the beginning of last season I posted essentially the same thing.... How can you write off young players with so little experience? it is not rational and rationality is something i had come to expect from Kent and from most who post on this site.

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#88 BJ
June 06 2014, 09:39PM
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Ooops meant for @ stubblejumper

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#89 EugeneV
June 06 2014, 09:50PM
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Primo wrote:

Let me offer the "glass half full" approach....

Ekblad = Duncan Keith

Reinhart = Joe Niewendyk

Draistl = Peter Forsberg

Bennett = Doug Gilmour

Draistl then please

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#90 Primo
June 06 2014, 10:03PM
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EugeneV wrote:

Draistl then please

Then I will take Reinhart...please

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#91 seve927
June 06 2014, 10:16PM
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BJ wrote:

I think you are right that I am singularly critical and i was not trying to attack anyone... but if this is a forum then arenylt my opinions valid as well if they differ? Dont hold me to a double standard... i just think itis unfair to write off young kids who have not played a game of pro hockey... if you have noticed that is mainly what I post about.

When kent wilson wrote off Joe Colborne at the beginning of last season I posted essentially the same thing.... How can you write off young players with so little experience? it is not rational and rationality is something i had come to expect from Kent and from most who post on this site.

I don't remember Kent writing off Colborne. My recollection is that he said it was an outstanding acquisition.

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#92 Burnward
June 06 2014, 10:20PM
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Just three weeks to go! Wooooooo!

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#93 Franko J
June 06 2014, 11:13PM
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I hope that Treliving tries to garner few more picks in the draft. I am also hoping he retains the #4 pick. The obvious is no matter who Calgary drafts at # 4 the team will have a quality player for years to come. Drafting is only the first step in making this team better. The real key is developing and moulding one these players at # 4 into an everyday NHLer. For a team that looked full of despair and destitute with their prospect pool only a few years ago it has dramatically improved.

While trading up to obtain a Ekblad or a Reinhart would make the draft that much more interesting, I'm under the impression that the Flames like the other 29 teams are already looking ahead to 2015. This years draft might have the fantastic four, however, next years draft has the franchise changing duo. With the addition of two more very good dmen to choose from.

Another interesting scenario is teams will be able to talk to potential free agents prior to the draft and therefore some teams might be willing to trade draft picks for "exclusive rights" to pending players. I rather see the Flames as sellers rather than buyers.

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#94 coachedpotatoe
June 07 2014, 06:18AM
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Franko J wrote:

I hope that Treliving tries to garner few more picks in the draft. I am also hoping he retains the #4 pick. The obvious is no matter who Calgary drafts at # 4 the team will have a quality player for years to come. Drafting is only the first step in making this team better. The real key is developing and moulding one these players at # 4 into an everyday NHLer. For a team that looked full of despair and destitute with their prospect pool only a few years ago it has dramatically improved.

While trading up to obtain a Ekblad or a Reinhart would make the draft that much more interesting, I'm under the impression that the Flames like the other 29 teams are already looking ahead to 2015. This years draft might have the fantastic four, however, next years draft has the franchise changing duo. With the addition of two more very good dmen to choose from.

Another interesting scenario is teams will be able to talk to potential free agents prior to the draft and therefore some teams might be willing to trade draft picks for "exclusive rights" to pending players. I rather see the Flames as sellers rather than buyers.

I'm wondering what you see them as selling?

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#95 Byron Bader
June 07 2014, 02:56PM
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I too hope the Flames try to acquire another top 15 1st rather than trading up. Getting one of the four is going to be big and I'm confident they'll pick whoever's left. Virtanen really intrigues me as the additional guy that they pick if they can get their hands on another 1st rounder. He's almost a year younger than S. Reinhart and just barely makes the age cut off this year to be drafted. His numbers are not that far off of Reinhart's 17/18 year numbers. It's been said numerous times that if Virtanen had the high hockey IQ and a touch more consistency he'd be the 1st overall consensus. His shot and skating is talked as being the best in the 2014 class. He's the youngest one of the top 10, maybe of the entire 1st round. I'm very intrigued what this kid looks like come the Summer of 2015. I hope the Flames play it safe and pick one of the top 4 but if they do trade for another pick, Virtanen is who I like.

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#96 Franko J
June 07 2014, 05:17PM
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@coachedpotatoe

To further clarify my statement I just don't think the Flames should get into a bidding war to move up in this draft. I rather see them trade a player like Wideman, Hudler, or the rights to Cammalleri for subsequent picks in this draft.

Ideally (dreaming) it would be great to see if the Flames can obtain another 1st round pick in this draft or next year. Although Ekblad is rated as the # 1 D in this draft, I like a couple other D in this draft who given the proper development can be just as good.

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#97 Franko J
June 07 2014, 06:01PM
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@coachedpotatoe

To further clarify my statement I just don't think the Flames should get into a bidding war to move up in this draft. I rather see them trade a player like Wideman, Hudler, or the rights to Cammalleri for subsequent picks in this draft.

Ideally (dreaming) it would be great to see if the Flames can obtain another 1st round pick in this draft or next year.

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