Five things: Who's gonna make it?

Ryan Lambert
July 31 2014 08:30AM

1. Lots of decisions to come

The good thing about the Flames, almost regardless of how you choose to look at it, is that there's now, finally, a lot of youth on the team that used to be so typified by its players being in their late-20s and 30s. What that means in the long run is that the team has a chance to build some success for down the road and will likely have a number of affordable and potentially good players under contract for a number of years.

What that means in the short term, though, is that Brad Treliving and Bob Hartley are going to have some interesting decisions to make throughout the lineup come late September, and further, there are almost certainly going to be more than a few such decisions to make. Given that it's now almost August and there's very little to talk about, I thought I'd take a look at the younger players who are probably borderline picks to make the roster for a decent amount of time, either on opening night or maybe some point in like December or January.

The problem with this is that, given the team's lack of depth and the relatively comparable talent once you get past the two or three best kids overall, there's probably not a lot to separate the chances of, say, Max Reinhart from getting a decent-sized look from Ben Hanowski, for example.

So anyway, here goes.

2. Kenny Agostino

Agostino got into eight games with the big club last year at the end of the season and was wholly unmemorable. He scored his first goal and he was fine but he doesn't seem particularly likely to make the team out of camp, and I doubt he'd be the first call-up following an injury.

The fact is that he's a left wing really isn't on his side, as Calgary's prospect depth down the middle seems substantial; in addition to having four NHLers on the left already (if you count Bollig, haha) there's also Johnny Gaudreau, Sven Baertschi, Morgan Klimchuk, and — depending on whom you believe — Emile Poirier. Not to mention David Wolf, who might get a look before a lot of those guys because of all the punching.

I think Agostino is a decent enough player. I saw him play a time or three in NCAA this past season and he was always fairly impressive. But I think that of all the guys who might be considered, he's also the one in most need of a season or two in the AHL to prepare himself for the rigors of professional hockey. I'd put his chances of making the team at any point as being "quite low."

3. Bill Arnold

A guy I'm a little higher on is Arnold, and maybe that's just because I've seen him play more games (40-50 in four years I'd guess), than most prospects for any team.

The reason I'm high on him, overall, is that I think he brings something to the table that not a lot of other centers in the Flames' plans do: an established two-way game. For my money, he was the best two-way player in college hockey last season, scoring 53 points in 40 games (and let's be honest, a lot of that was because he played with Gaudreau all year) but also really and truly locking down the defensive zone in a way that others couldn't. It's often said in college hockey circles that the reason Gaudreau and Kevin Hayes were so capable of going forward with impunity was because Arnold would be there to mop up if things went sour in transition.

With that being said, Arnold, too, is a little buried, though not as much as Agostino. He's behind Matt Stajan, Mikael Backlund, Joe Colborne, and Sean Monahan at the NHL level, with Lance Bouma also mixed in there depending on where Colborne is used. But after that there's Sam Bennett, who's at least going to get a look somewhere for that eight-game trial period. And after that there's Corban Knight. And Markus Granlund and probably even Max Reinhart. I'd venture that Arnold is lumped in pretty closely with Granlund and Reinhart overall, but they have seniority and pro hockey under their belts. Arnold does not.

4. Sven Baertschi

This is basically the make-or-break year for Baertschi, and I think that he's very likely to get a long look and actual decent opportunity for once in his career. Things have gone sideways for him, no doubt about that, in the last few years. You have to wonder, though, how much of that is his doing, and how much was the Flames not knowing how to deal with him.

In theory this is one of the team's absolute best prospects, but in actual practice, having 55 points in 73 career AHL games doesn't exactly scream "quality."

They have to give him a chance to make the club, either on the left or right side. Have to. If he's on the right, he has more of a chance to succeed, because — and this is true — the team only has two natural right-side wings under contract. One of them is Brian McGrattan. Yeah, you can float wings from one side to the other without much incident, and that's what the Flames clearly have to do. That's where Baertschi is likely going to "make it" with this team. If he is at all. 

5. Sam Bennett

Finally this week we come to the Flames' highest-ever draft pick. Given the team's center depth and his relative youth, I'd find it pretty difficult to believe he makes the team after the eight-game junior tryout that comes standard (sell some jerseys, get everyone excited, etc.).

With that having been said, I would have guessed the same thing about Sean Monahan last season, and look how that ended up. If nothing else, keeping him in the OHL for another season floats his contract an extra year, and that's not a bad move at all.

I think he's great, but he shouldn't be anywhere near pro hockey next season. We'll see if the team feels the same way.

686dfac3780611cb7acad6ce5166c6c1
Yer ol' buddy Lambert is handsome and great and everyone loves him. Also you can visit his regular blog at The Two-Line Pass or follow him on Twitter. Lucky you!
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#51 Jeff In Lethbridge
July 31 2014, 06:00PM
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beloch wrote:

Gaudreau:
Gaudreau played heavy minutes for Team USA at the World Cup. He certainly played more (and accomplished more) than many proven NHL'ers did in that tournament. He's more likely to be the Flames point leader and a Calder finalist than he is to play a single game in the AHL next season.

Baertschi:
Baertschi was badly mishandled last season. Burke started publically critisizing his play before the season even started. Monahan and Colborne required too much shelter for Hartley to give Baertschi deployment suitable to a rookie once the injuries started piling up. Despite posting good offensive numbers and struggling defensively no more than most rookies normally do, Baertschi was sent down because he was the only guy they could send down. Unfortunately, he took it the wrong way, possibly thanks to what Burke was saying.

Treliving has the opportunity to undo a lot of damage this season, provided Burke keeps his mouth shut. However, depending on where he's at mentally, Baertschi might be better off starting out in the AHL before coming up even if he's clearly NHL ready, in terms of ability, at camp. Baertschi is not an emotionless scoring machine and he really needs to be handled with a bit of care this season. Gaining confidence in the AHL for the first part of the season may serve him well in the long-term. Certainly, it would do him no good to play a handful of games in the early season only to be sent down again.

Kevin Hayes:

Gaudreau tore up the NCAA last season. He was the #1 scorer and won the Hobey Baker award. After Gaudreau, Kevin Hayes was second in the NCAA for scoring and has a NHLE of 54.6, which is pretty freakin' great. However, the previous season his NHLE was only 31.1, which is still good, but not nearly as impressive. Why the big jump? He started playing on Gaudreau's line last season. Still, it's clear that Hayes is a very good hockey player, and likely NHL ready. He's listed as being 6'3", 205 lbs too, which helps.

So why are we talking about the Blackhawks' 2010 1st round pick (#24 overall) anyways? He's not going to sign with them. His agent has stated that Hayes doesn't think he's good enough to make Chicago's NHL team and wants to sign with a team where he won't have to play in the AHL. Unless he signs with Chicago before Aug. 15th, he becomes a UFA.

Hayes played right wing with Gaudreau. His NHLE, pumped up by Johnny Hockey or not, suggests he's very good, and he's NHL sized. The Flames need right wingers badly and they need size badly too, so Arnold can almost certainly make it in cowtown. He can also probably make the Panthers, which is where his brother is playing. It's unclear if Hayes would prefer to play with his brother or the line he dominated the NCAA with, but both Calgary and Florida have a good shot at landing a quality rookie for nothing more than being willing to pay his salary. Considering that Calgary has a clear cap-space advantage over Florida, the Flames have a very good chance of landing this kid.

please correct me if I'm wrong, but it appeared to me that Baertschi's troubles started when he zhowed up for the prospects camp and tournament wih a bad attitude and questionable fitness???

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#52 cccsberg
July 31 2014, 06:01PM
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piscera.infada wrote:

I really liked the Monahan-Baertschi combo last year. It looked really good to my eye. However, I'm not putting Gaudreau on that wing, if he makes the big team. I'd put Gaudreau with Stajan or Backlund, and give him Hudler as well. Surround him with good players who are responsible. That way, you've given him good support on the ice, while at the same allowing him to flourish offensively (that is why he's here right?). Playing him and Backlund maybe also allow Backs to further discover his offensive game. Just a thought though. I'm one of the few people that thinks we'll see Gaudreau starting in the AHL this year (for a bit anyway).

Agree the focus should be on pairs, and Monahan with Baertchi looked great last year. Add in a bigger, stronger Colbourne and I think that could be a great line.

Put Gaudreau with Backlund and Wolf/Jones/Ferland(later?) which also could be solid. I like what I saw of Wolf and would like to see if he can keep up and contribute in that setting. He certainly can crash and bang and dig pucks loose, as well as protect which could go well with JohnnyH.

Third pair Stajan and Glencross, with Reinhart/Bollig?

Fourth Granlund/Knight with Agostino/Bouma/Byron and McGratton/Van Brabant/Hanowski...

Roll all four lines.

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#53 RexLibris
July 31 2014, 06:03PM
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@wot96

Smid's penalty differentials read thus:

10-11 - 17/31 for a -14

11-12 - 12/22 for a -10

13 - 8/22 for a -14

13-14 - 7/29 for a -22

http://www.extraskater.com/player/565/ladislav-smid

I'm not sure "rebound" is the best term to use there. Maybe "not take so many damned penalties" would be more fitting, although it doesn't roll off the tongue quite as well.

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#54 cccsberg
July 31 2014, 06:19PM
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Baalzamon wrote:

So we're forgetting about Mason Raymond already?

I like the idea of putting Gaudreau back with Moneyhands and Colborne (because why not?) and Sven with Mickis. Makes one wonder who takes on the heavies, though. Maybe Glencross - Stajan - Raymond?

This is such a weird team.

Good point about Raymond. In my previous post I also missed him and Hudler, not to mention Bennett and Klimchuk both of whom I think will go back to Junior.

I hear that management is focusing players on the upcoming training camp, and the meritocracy concept tat virtually every spot is up for grabs, but I really wonder if the team will be prepared to waive/trade existing vets right out of the gate if some of the prospects excel? Guess Salary Floor would be an issue to start the season, but I guess major changes COULD happen pretty quick once games get going.

QUESTION: What are the Salary Floor rule for A/ season start B/ season itself C/ season end?

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#55 Baalzamon
July 31 2014, 07:07PM
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beloch wrote:

Re: Hayes preferring to play in the U.S.

It's really hard to say. Florida and Calgary are two clear front-runners, but there will likely be other teams in on the action. Still, those two teams represent a choice between unpleasantly cold and unpleasantly warm (with hurricanes). It's also a choice between playing in a hockey market where he might be recognized on the street and a market that, on average, managed to fill it's arena only 3/4 full last season. Calgary has a lot more cap-space though, and they could probably afford to give him a one-way contract with a couple of years on it.

Any contract Hayes signs would be an Entry Level deal (I would guess 2 years, but I'm not sure). That means the salary is capped, and it has to be 2-way.

Even Roman Cervenka's contract was an ELC when he signed with the Flames, and he was 27 at the time.

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#56 Baalzamon
July 31 2014, 07:10PM
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@cccsberg

The cap floor is the cap floor. No exceptions IIRC.

Fortunately (for the Flames, right now) contracts can only be buried up to ~900k or something. Which means if they sent David Jones (to pick a name out of the air at random) to Glens Falls he'd still count a bit more than 3 million against the cap.

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#57 ???
July 31 2014, 07:21PM
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The frontrunner for Kevin Hayes has got to be Boston. Without Iginla, Eriksson is pretty much their only right winger. They've got cap issues, so they really need an ELC in the lineup right now. And it's not just the city where Hayes went to college - it's his hometown.

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#58 Walter White
July 31 2014, 07:27PM
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Jeff In Lethbridge wrote:

for a man who is smart enough to mask his IP address to avoid a ban, and dumb enough to do it when he mostly isn't wanted for being so annoying and confrontational, I would suggest you use some of your amazing tech-savvy and put YOUR OWN picture on your profile (at least on your "WW" profile; you can leave the other profiles under their current alias' for the few here who don't realize they are you... shhhhh our secret)

Then, feel free to comment on others looks.

Ya, didn't think so.

What other profiles are you giving me credit for??

If you choose to post a picture of yourself, you should not be offended if someone comments on it......

For example: I think that Mattyc has a striking resemblance to Phil Laak..........(having said that: Phil's girlfriend Is Jennifer Tilly, so Mattyc may be ok with that.....)

BTW: I have never propped or trashed any post, not even my own.

Oh yes: Max Reinhart sucks..........

WW

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#59 MontanaMan
July 31 2014, 09:06PM
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Gaudreau with Backlund and Jones? With a centre and right winger like that, who will put the puck in the net? Gaudreau will elect to return to Boston College. Give him someone with finesse and skill and someone who can bury the puck.

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#60 Willi P
July 31 2014, 09:33PM
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MontanaMan wrote:

Gaudreau with Backlund and Jones? With a centre and right winger like that, who will put the puck in the net? Gaudreau will elect to return to Boston College. Give him someone with finesse and skill and someone who can bury the puck.

And a silence spreads over the crowd, who on the Flames can bury the puck........crickets

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#61 wot96
July 31 2014, 09:40PM
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@RexLibris

Thanks Rex. I agree, rebound does not fit.

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#62 Baalzamon
July 31 2014, 10:34PM
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MontanaMan wrote:

Gaudreau with Backlund and Jones? With a centre and right winger like that, who will put the puck in the net? Gaudreau will elect to return to Boston College. Give him someone with finesse and skill and someone who can bury the puck.

Gaudreau will elect to return to Boston College.

Not if he wants to play hockey.

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#63 Jeff In Lethbridge
August 01 2014, 06:27AM
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@Walter White

"...If you choose to post a picture of yourself, you should not be offended if someone comments on it......"

thats what life has taught you? You must have been picked on a lot during your school years.

your comments and behaviour say a lot about you... please get help.

sometimes when someone is continually such a jerk, it is a cry for help, sometimes it just means they really are jerks... others are molded into their negative, confrontational, ignorant self by life experiences.

Which of these are the root of your awkward, anti-social "border-line" behaviours?

Like I said, I hope you are getting help and taking your meds id so needed.

my biggest mistake is giving you the attention you seek... won't happen again. nothing but pitty for you.

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#64 Kristjan
August 01 2014, 06:28AM
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@Bean-counting cowboy

They tried him on the right almost all year in Abby. That's why he didn't do anything

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#65 Kristjan
August 01 2014, 06:52AM
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I think Baertschi will be given every opportunity. He's on his last year on his ELC. And he does have a near .5 PPG pace in the NHL. But you don't want to give him a 4th line role. I thunk he'll battle with Gaudreau and Granlund for a second line spot. But even though I want Baertschi I think Gaudreau will be just too impressive for them to send him down. Although I believe that Baertschi will be up and an everyday NHLer at some point in the year.

Arnold will really compete for a job I think. He lost weight and got a lot faster. It'll be interesting to see what he does at camp. I think the battle for a 4th line role is Knight vs Reinhart vs Arnold. I don't think BVB or Wolf will make it. Knight played well last year in his callup. But Reinhart should get it IMO. There's nothing he can learn from the AHL anymore. We need to see if he can make the jump.

Bennett's too weak for the NHL right now. And he's not gonna play a 4th line role and neither is Stajan.

for a 7th defenceman it'll probably be Cundari. Acolatse has a chance. Just not Wotherspoon. He needs to play 60+ games and like it or not Engelland will start as an everyday NHLer. Wotherspoon played great and will probably earn a spot later in the year.

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#66 coachedpotatoe
August 01 2014, 07:44AM
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If we focus just on the 4 names in this article then I would suggest the following: Bennett may get his 9 games at the start of the season but that is not a given based upon the centers ahead of him.

Sven as you say is in a different position and really needs to be given a chance to play at the NHL this year to determine if he is an NHL player. He faces stiff competition on the LW with Glenx. Hudler, Raymond and fellow prospect Johnny being the new kid in town. The Flames could and possible should move Hudler to the RW where he has played before and roll 4 lines giving Sven a chance.

Agostino is buried pretty far down the depth chart on LW and will need a season at the AHL to develop and might he not be one to experiment with as a RW. If he plays at the NHL level it should be late in the season as a call up.

Arnold is also buried on the depth chart of this organization at center with Backs, Stajan, Monahan, Granlund,and Knight all ahead of him based upon their experiences from last year.As a RH shot might he or Knight be moved to RW this year. He will play the majority of the season in the AHL but I see him as a likely replacement for Stajan in the next couple of years.

All one can hope for is that Hartley has been given permission to experiment with his roster and not be stuck with his 8 established NHL vets and his 4 emerging forwards; some of the prospects need NHL now to determine if they are NHL ready, others need time in the AHL to adjust to pro hockey and others need to go back to junior. From this list of 4 it is clear that Sven fits the first category and Arnold and Agostino the second category and IMO Bennett the third category.(only because it's NHL or CHL only for him)

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#67 coachedpotatoe
August 01 2014, 08:22AM
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Would one of our collective agreement experts please answer a few questions for me? 1. With 45 players under contract(46 once the Bouma deal is signed) and I believe 3 of them will be returned to junior at some point(Klimchuk, Kanzig and Bennett) do they still count against the 50 when they are playing junior?

2. Is there a limit to the number of AHL only contracts a team can have?

3. Does anyone know where I can find a list for teh Baby Flames AHL only contacts?

4.Do the Flames still have an agreement with the ECHL team in Alaska?

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#68 piscera.infada
August 01 2014, 08:40AM
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coachedpotatoe wrote:

Would one of our collective agreement experts please answer a few questions for me? 1. With 45 players under contract(46 once the Bouma deal is signed) and I believe 3 of them will be returned to junior at some point(Klimchuk, Kanzig and Bennett) do they still count against the 50 when they are playing junior?

2. Is there a limit to the number of AHL only contracts a team can have?

3. Does anyone know where I can find a list for teh Baby Flames AHL only contacts?

4.Do the Flames still have an agreement with the ECHL team in Alaska?

No, they count towards your 80-man reserve list - in the same way unsigned draft choices (including NCAA prospects) or draft choices playing in Europe do (defected players). They count as "any signed Junior player who has played less than 11 professional games". Read about roster eligibility here - "Reserve Lists" section.

I'm not sure on 2 or 3. Although, I would assume AHL-only contract would apply to AHL roster limits only. Remember, that league would have it's own set of guidelines.

As far as I can tell, the Flames-Aces agreement still stands. Although, for the life of me, I can find the length of the agreement anywhere.

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#69 Travel-dude
August 01 2014, 09:59AM
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MontanaMan wrote:

Gaudreau with Backlund and Jones? With a centre and right winger like that, who will put the puck in the net? Gaudreau will elect to return to Boston College. Give him someone with finesse and skill and someone who can bury the puck.

If you compare Backlund to Arnold (in the NCAA), you see a very similar type of center. Johnny made Arnold a better player, while Arnold prvided the defensive responsibilities to allow Johnny to toe-drag his way through the opposition.

Hayes is probably a reasonable comparison to Jones, in that he is big and has some abilities to score (based on his stats in COL). Jones would be on Johnny's line to add some grit. If Poirier can beat out Jones in camp, all the better. Poirier is looking like he will be ready for camp, so it's not out of the question he can win a spot on the Flames.

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#70 coachedpotatoe
August 01 2014, 10:18AM
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piscera.infada wrote:

No, they count towards your 80-man reserve list - in the same way unsigned draft choices (including NCAA prospects) or draft choices playing in Europe do (defected players). They count as "any signed Junior player who has played less than 11 professional games". Read about roster eligibility here - "Reserve Lists" section.

I'm not sure on 2 or 3. Although, I would assume AHL-only contract would apply to AHL roster limits only. Remember, that league would have it's own set of guidelines.

As far as I can tell, the Flames-Aces agreement still stands. Although, for the life of me, I can find the length of the agreement anywhere.

Thanks I will take a look,

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#71 Baalzamon
August 01 2014, 12:43PM
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@coachedpotatoe

WRT point 3, the best I can do is give you the whole roster listing

Anyone on that list who isn't on the Flames' capgeek page would be on an AHL-only deal.

Anyone heard anything about Doug Carr? The Flames organization seemed to like what they saw out of him last year (at least in relative terms, since he was recalled to the Heat ahead of Olivier Roy at one point) and they invited him to rookie camp... any possibility they send a contract his way? Maybe even AHL-only?

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#72 Byron Bader
August 01 2014, 02:48PM
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@Travel-dude

Gaudreau with Backlund would be terrific, without a doubt. They will have the puck on their stick the majority of the game. If the duo plays together for a significant period of the season, I see Backlund shattering his previous highest season point total,by 20% - 40%.

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#73 MontanaMan
August 01 2014, 06:58PM
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Byron Bader wrote:

Gaudreau with Backlund would be terrific, without a doubt. They will have the puck on their stick the majority of the game. If the duo plays together for a significant period of the season, I see Backlund shattering his previous highest season point total,by 20% - 40%.

Shatter his (Backlund) previous high point total of 39!!! Wow. Sign him for 5 years and $5 million. On another note, with all of the issues between Subban and the Habs what are your thoughts about the Flames seizing the moment and making a strong pitch consisting of draft pick(s) and young talent. Might be a once in a lifetime opportunity and while Subban isn't my kind of d-man or teammate, Burke just might chance it to land a future star.

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#74 Baalzamon
August 01 2014, 07:22PM
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@MontanaMan

Future star? Subban is a star.

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#75 EugeneV
August 02 2014, 05:52AM
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Bean-counting cowboy wrote:

Regarding Sven; I've been thinking they need to try him on the right as well.

A Gaudreau - Monhan - Baertschi line

Have this line be super sheltered. Offensive zone starts wherever possible and playing against as soft as comp as possible.

Have Englland on the ice for protection on D.

Could be some magic with those three methinks.

You can't play 2 smurfs on the same line.

NO, NO, No!

Wouldn't be good for either of them, and not good for Sean either.

On the PP? Yes, then you could be up for some magic.

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#76 EugeneV
August 02 2014, 06:26AM
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coachedpotatoe wrote:

Why is there no mention of Granlund? He was the best center on the Heat last year and clearly made the transition from Europe to NA hockey. He made whomever he payed with better at the AHL level and looked fine in his NHL debut.

As for Johnny play him with a veteran center he is capable of playing the complete game.There would be nothing wrong with him and Backs and say DJones(this might help him refind his game)or a Bouma or Hudler on the RW.

This organization needs to rethink how it deploys players if it wants to develop their young guys and playing 2 scoring lines ,1 checking line and 1 energy line is not the way to go.

I never look at who the poster is until I have read the post and made a guess as to who it is.

A little game I like to play.

Yours are the easiest to pick because 70% of the time it will reference "rolling 4 lines", which don't get me wrong, I also advocate.

Just not often I miss guessing who wrote the post.

Keep going, maybe it will become a reality one day.

Maybe something like this?

2018

JohnnyH Bennett Poirier

Baertschi Monahan 2016 1st

Klimchuk Backlund Granlund

Ferland Janko Smith

Brodie Hanifin (3rd overall 2015)

TSpoon Sieloff

Gio ?

Gillies

MacDonald

I don't look at the "4th" line above as being a goon line. I have high hopes that Ferland's skill shows out and that Smith keeps developing as well. I also have very high hopes for Jankowski. If he was a baseball prospect he would be a 5 tool guy, so I hope he shows out this year.

I expect that we might be trading high on Gio, in the next 18 months for a stud D prospect and a 1st rounder so hopefully we can end up with Hanifin if we don't get one of the top 2 next draft.

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#77 coachedpotatoe
August 02 2014, 08:19AM
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EugeneV wrote:

I never look at who the poster is until I have read the post and made a guess as to who it is.

A little game I like to play.

Yours are the easiest to pick because 70% of the time it will reference "rolling 4 lines", which don't get me wrong, I also advocate.

Just not often I miss guessing who wrote the post.

Keep going, maybe it will become a reality one day.

Maybe something like this?

2018

JohnnyH Bennett Poirier

Baertschi Monahan 2016 1st

Klimchuk Backlund Granlund

Ferland Janko Smith

Brodie Hanifin (3rd overall 2015)

TSpoon Sieloff

Gio ?

Gillies

MacDonald

I don't look at the "4th" line above as being a goon line. I have high hopes that Ferland's skill shows out and that Smith keeps developing as well. I also have very high hopes for Jankowski. If he was a baseball prospect he would be a 5 tool guy, so I hope he shows out this year.

I expect that we might be trading high on Gio, in the next 18 months for a stud D prospect and a 1st rounder so hopefully we can end up with Hanifin if we don't get one of the top 2 next draft.

Did yo come up with the 70% using standard stats or advanced stats?

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#78 EugeneV
August 02 2014, 08:53AM
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coachedpotatoe wrote:

Did yo come up with the 70% using standard stats or advanced stats?

You know I hate advanced stats.

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#79 coachedpotatoe
August 02 2014, 10:58AM
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EugeneV wrote:

You know I hate advanced stats.

I thought this might drive you crazy.

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#80 EugeneV
August 02 2014, 03:01PM
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coachedpotatoe wrote:

I thought this might drive you crazy.

Sweet as.

It's not that I don't appreciate the fancy stats, it's just that I prefer the eye test. I'm old fashioned that way.

same for "normal" stats. They tell us that Ovi is a top player. What do your eyes tell you about him?

Context, context, context.

I believe ANY type of stat is a tool to help you understand what your eyes are seeing.

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#81 coachedpotatoe
August 02 2014, 04:01PM
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EugeneV wrote:

Sweet as.

It's not that I don't appreciate the fancy stats, it's just that I prefer the eye test. I'm old fashioned that way.

same for "normal" stats. They tell us that Ovi is a top player. What do your eyes tell you about him?

Context, context, context.

I believe ANY type of stat is a tool to help you understand what your eyes are seeing.

All stats can be useful if you know what you want from them but the truth is you need stats, eye test, and context and on this I think we agree.

I was looking at your proposed team for 2018 and was wonder how the progression from this team to your vision for 2018 would go down.

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#82 EugeneV
August 03 2014, 02:11AM
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coachedpotatoe wrote:

All stats can be useful if you know what you want from them but the truth is you need stats, eye test, and context and on this I think we agree.

I was looking at your proposed team for 2018 and was wonder how the progression from this team to your vision for 2018 would go down.

I just have visions of some genius in a basement somewhere making the decisions about who we draft without ever even laying eyes on a player. ok, it's more of a nightmare really.

Baseball is different than hockey, in that each pitch is an event which can be measured by stats. type of pitch, inning, pitch count, pitch location, hitters BA on type and location, situational BA and on and on and on.

Hockey is different in that it is free flowing and reactionary, yet on a 3 on 1 we are all taught to do the same things and take the best option available. Baseball events ALL start from 60'6" though, so are measurable on so many levels.

Advanced stats are advancing, but I still prefer the context of my eyes to what the stats tell me.

I'll get to my 2018 team at some point soon, sorry.

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#83 coachedpotatoe
August 03 2014, 08:09AM
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The thing about stats is they can't measure the intangibles. Based upon stats alone McG should never dress, yet he played the most games ever last year. Yes there were many nights when he failed the eye test as well. This year I find it difficult to believe that with the skill that the prospects have that McG will play as many games despite the intangibles he brings.

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#84 EugeneV
August 04 2014, 02:48AM
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coachedpotatoe wrote:

The thing about stats is they can't measure the intangibles. Based upon stats alone McG should never dress, yet he played the most games ever last year. Yes there were many nights when he failed the eye test as well. This year I find it difficult to believe that with the skill that the prospects have that McG will play as many games despite the intangibles he brings.

Probably they will look to use McG as a professional influence in the dressing room and on the ice at practice and just dress him at away games where they worry about the other teams intentions for our young guys, and also at home when the visitors have to hand in their lineup first and choose to dress the John Scotts etc of the world.

So they will need to balance some size with the skill to allow the young guys to learn without being pushed around. They will also be looking at how JohnnyG goes playing against players taking liberties with him. Gauging his "NHL" compete levels so to speak.

We also know that McG plays by the old time hockey code and won't fight anyone outside his weight class, so I believe this is why they have signed The Wolf of Dusseldorf, who may just be a loose enough cannon with enough skating ability to go after anyone taking liberties.

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#85 coachedpotatoe
August 04 2014, 09:25AM
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EugeneV wrote:

Probably they will look to use McG as a professional influence in the dressing room and on the ice at practice and just dress him at away games where they worry about the other teams intentions for our young guys, and also at home when the visitors have to hand in their lineup first and choose to dress the John Scotts etc of the world.

So they will need to balance some size with the skill to allow the young guys to learn without being pushed around. They will also be looking at how JohnnyG goes playing against players taking liberties with him. Gauging his "NHL" compete levels so to speak.

We also know that McG plays by the old time hockey code and won't fight anyone outside his weight class, so I believe this is why they have signed The Wolf of Dusseldorf, who may just be a loose enough cannon with enough skating ability to go after anyone taking liberties.

McG dressed for 76 games last year and there were many a night when his ice time was less than 5 minutes although near the end of the season he was playing more. I agree he is a situational player and should be used as such, 20-30 games max.

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#86 EugeneV
August 06 2014, 03:09AM
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Apparently someone has decided to trash our private conversation.

Justin........ is that you?

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