AROUND THE LEAGUE PLAYOFFS WEEK SIX

As the Stanley Cup Finals wind down, I wonder if Patrick Kane is the most under-rated player in the NHL; or at least from the Canadian media and fans. Jonathon Toews gets more accolades than Kane, and despite his 22 points, to Toews 27; Kane hasn’t been mentioned as even a possibility for the Conn Smyth.

Why I wonder?

Toews is clearly a better ambassador off the ice.

He hasn’t been involved in any dust ups with taxi drivers,  doesn’t have a cool nickname like 20 cent, and he wasn’t shirtless in a limo with young Vancouver ladies. The only flak Kane should have received over the limo pics was his choice of companions. Who cares if a 21-year-old male is partying in a limo with girls?

But if you focus on his on-ice play it is hard to overlook what he has accomplished.

In his first three seasons he has 76 goals and 230 points in 244 games. Toews has 83 goals, 191 points in 222 games. Toews is the captain and one hell of a leader, and has shown an ability to step up his game in the playoffs and Olympics.

But so has Kane.

Toews has 40 career playoff points to Kane’s 36. It’s not a comparison between who is better, (I’d take Toews’ overall game) because their games are different, but I sense Kane doesn’t get the respect his game deserves. He might be the best player in the game at controlling the play high in the offensive zone. He has the ability to circle between the top of the circles and the blueline and make teams look lost. He has great vision, and for my money is one of the best passers in the game.

I also like his flair/cockiness. He makes the game fun. Some have laughed at his playoff Mullet, but it doesn’t faze him. And you can’t discount his ability to produce in the clutch. Kane needs one chance and he can finish. If Patrick Kane was Canadian would he be talked about more?

ICE WOMEN OF THE WEEK

The playoffs could be over by next Thursday, so let’s honour the entire BlackHawks Ice Crew. With such a wide array of beauties it is hard to pick a favourite, but, for me, something about Yanina separates her from the rest of the crew.

RANDOM THOUGHTS

  • Can anyone tell me who picked up the puck after game one of the Penguins/Red Wings series last year? Didn’t think so, because we shouldn’t care. Not sure why The Human Rake’s decision to pick up the puck annoyed so many people. That’s why he did it. To piss people off. Rake 1- hockey people 0.
  • If you are planning on going to the NHL draft in LA you can get tickets starting Saturday. Here’s a blurb from the Kings website. “Tickets for the 2010 NHL Entry Draft will be available to the general public beginning this Saturday, June 5, at 10 a.m.~ A limited number of tickets, which are free of charge, can be downloaded and printed (note a service charge of $1.25 per ticket will be charged) by visiting LAKings.com/nhldraft.~ Ticket limit is 4 (four) and each ticket is good for both days.”
  • The Hawks haven’t missed Andrew Ladd that much in the finals. He is an RFA this summer, and with his size should make him attractive trade bait if Stan Bowman elects to move him.
  • How much will RFA D-man, Niklas Hjarlmarsson be worth this summer? The 22-year-old Swede has been very solid for the Hawks. What Bowman does with his backend this summer will be intriguing to watch. Brian Campbell has played the 5th most minutes in the Cup final out of the blueliners, but his contract makes him untradeable I’d think.
  • Would Darryl Sutter buy-out the final two years of Ales Kotalik’s contract? They could buy him out for $4 million and split that up over four years.  
  • Why doesn’t baseball have instant replay? Detroit pitcher, Armando Galarraga was robbed of a perfect game last night when first-base umpire, Jim Joyce ruled Jason Donald safe at first. Replays clearly showed Donald was safe. Commissioner Bud Selig should wake up and allow teams to one or two challenge flags every game. I do credit Joyce for admitting after the game he screwed up, and Galarraga was incredibly classy after the game. He did get a surprise gift today though for his efforts
  • Kelly Buchberger and Wayne Fleming have yet to receive contract extensions. Their contracts are up June 30th, so we could see some changes behind the bench this summer. No position in the organization is safe at this point, and that’s how it should be when you’ve missed the playoffs four years consecutively.

 

  • Chris Pronger… once again bigger than the game itself, gets game puck. Even if it was a team thing, wouldn’t the Captain grab it?

    ~But don’t you know who he is, man? He’s Chris Phukkin Pronger~

  • OB1 Team Yakopov - F.S.T.N.F

    The haunting words of Tambellini “proper rebuild “still rings fresh in my mind as the draft draws nearer. Was Tams serious about his choice of direction and words when he spoke them ? A proper rebuild is from the backend .

    Considering Souray appears to be on his way out and goaltending is up in the air , i would somewhat think that Tambellini will address our biggest problems filling the backend rather than drafting a forward with our first choice .

    Is Tambellini trying to drive up the value of Hall and Seguin for the purpose of drafting from the backend and maybe getting a 2 for 1 deal ? If Tams is serious about a proper rebuild then i have reservations that we’ll be drafting Hall or Seguin this season with Eberle and Svensson already on the radar .

    If we are to draft Hall or Seguin , then what did Tambellini mean by a “proper rebuild” ? Sounds a little dyslexic to do a proper rebuild from forward position don’t you think , considering our problems are more severe on backend ?

    That picture of Gudblanson in Journal today makes him look imposing ?

    • Seriously, drop the idea that the Oilers need to draft more defensemen instead of one of the top 2 players in the draft. The Oilers already have Petry, Plante, Chorney, and Peckham in the minors, plus the Oil can expect to get SOMETHING back for Souray. Why should they pass up the opportunity for a dynamic forward in favour of another defenseman that wont be ready for 3 years?

      If Tambellini is serious about rebuilding he will not waste the 1st overall pick on defensemen who arent in the same league as Hall or Seguin.

      Was Washington, Chicago, and Pittsburgh wrong in how they did their rebuilds by taking Malkin, Crosby, Staal, Kane, Toews, Ovechkin, and Backstrom? NO.

      • I’m not sure if Petry, Plante, Chorney, and Peckham don’t add to his case. The less of those guys we see up here, the better.

        On the other hand, Smid, Gilbert, Whitney are a good start. I wonder if it would be easier to acquire the other guys as RFA’s or trades due to the fact it seems to take so much longer to develop a good D. Because it seems to me our own AHL resources pretty much blow.

        • I can see that the AHL crop doesnt add that much optimism, but they shouldnt scare the Oilers SO MUCH that they pass up clearly better hockey players just to fill defense positions. Plante was a 1st rounder and he’s no NHL either, I wouldnt expect any defenseman we draft in this class to be NHL ready. These guys are a couple years away for the most part, and by then we might not be that hurting at the backend.

        • Not sure I understand why people are quick to poo poo these d-men…what is it you know about Petry that makes you infer that he isn’t going to be any good? Same with Chorney…because he had a less than a stellar rookie year? Couldn’t it be possible for him to become another Tom Gilbert in a year or two. What were you saying about Gilbert 2/3 yrs ago?

          IMO Peckham has started to come into his own…he brings something the Oilers sorely lack…a decent stay at home d-man who brings a real mean streak to his game and a willingness to stand up for teammates at the drop of a hat. Plante didn’t really look that out of place during his 2 game stint here…why are you so quick to toss him aside as a failure already?

          Alot of people on here are always screaming that the Oilers need to develop their young talent in the AHL and yet when they do the players that are developing are labled as being useless because they are just AHL calibre.

          What would everyone say if the Oilers managed to sign a Dan Hamhuis type d-man this summer or get a decent d-man back in a trade for say Souray and Cogliano?

          IMO the Oilers D is going in the right direction but I’m always the optimist (drinking the Kool aid if you prefer)

          Just a couple of small moves required and voila, it’ll look pretty darn good…at least from where I sit.

          • You’re judging these guys on the merit of a 30th place team. Players like Chorney don’t see the light of day on a decent NHL team, which is what I hope we’re working towards. That they got thrown into our lineup was only a matter of circumstance and (IMO) insurance towards that 30th place.

            If he gets to be as good as Gilbert, more power to him. But let him do his learning in the development leagues, not on our blueline. If he’s good enough to push his way up by his own, that’s what pro sport is all about.

            Unless we want to finish last again next year. Then its “Helloooo Mr Chorney”.

          • You’ve narrowed down your distain for all of those blueliners to just the one…Chorney.

            I’m all for guys developing on the farm if need be…but you were suggesting IMO that these players would not ever become something at the NHL level…not just Chorney but Peckham, Petry and Plante.

            How do you know at what point Chorney will be this coming season? How do you know where Peckham is at or Plante and how much research have you done on Petry to know that he isn’t any good already? How do you know that this past season even though it was a disaster in the standings didn’t actually help Chorney to develop even quicker? IMO it’s assinine to suggest that the only reason Chorney was playing here was to ensure a 30th place finish but to each their own.

            Actually I did a bit of research and players just like Chorney do in fact see the light of day in the NHL on decent teams…I started listing them here but there were too many to list…

            In any event I’m not ready to write all of these young blueliners off…maybe there isn’t room for all of them next year but I could see 1 or 2 and yes maybe one of them will even be Chorney and no I don’t think it has to mean the Oilers will finish 30th again next year.

            Tell me how many teams in the league survive losing their top goaltender, their top offensive player, their top d-man and don’t plummet down the standings.

  • Using the city is an easier “cop out ” than expressing what players really feel to begin with . It is for some annoying reason the “canned ” for public answer they all seem to use . I don’t like it , but even organization seems to use it rather abundantly .

    Born and raised in Edmonton , i’ve yet to find thru extensive travels any city any better than Edmonton or Alberta for that matter . The advantages here are far greater than any disadvantages and much more so , when you consider the Alberta advantages and educational system , etc..

    I find using the city as an excuse is fake and phony with most of them . The real reasons are withheld from media and public scrutiny i feel . And yes , we are a beautifull city as many ardent international travellers will attest to, and second to none !

    • OB1 Team Yakopov - F.S.T.N.F

      Whatever you’re smoking, I’d like some. Edmonton is an ugly, ugly city. I don’t say that because I’m Calgarian, I say that because I have eyes. What real advantages do the Albertan cities have over Vancouver, for instance? Dry air for people who hate moisture?

      Even over American cities, where most of the advantages for Edmonton/Calgary would be in terms of the educational system, health care, and so on, you have to realize you’re talking about people who make an average of over a million dollars per year. If you make that much money in the US, you can buy the best health care in the world, and you can get some pretty solid education for your kids. Unless someone carries distaste for American government/society (which is a fair caveat), there isn’t much to separate these two cold, isolated cities as being “places to go.”

      • What real advantages do the Albertan cities have over Vancouver, for instance? Dry air for people who hate moisture?

        Less taxes?
        Less congestion?
        Opportunity for investment?
        Less violent crime?

        There are obviously advantages to living in Vancouver as well, but to claim there are none to living in Alberta is wrong.

      • The “grass is not greener on the other side ” as the old adage goes . I have several friends and relatives in the Calgary area and they speak very highly of both cities . I frequent Calgary and have been to Vancouver several times over the last few years as i have friends and relatives there as well. I moved to Kelowna with my family for 1 and 1/2 years . Like almost all the others we have chosen to come back to Alberta .

        Vancouver is my least desirable place i might add, and wrote to the Olympic Committee to clean up downtown druggies problem before they embarrassed the rest of Canada . Gas town was a haven for very aggressive drug culture shooting up at every corner. What they have done to the ocean around there is worse than any swamp around Alberta . Environmental disaster .

        Vancouver is the only Canadian city that my wife and i felt so unsafe in that i felt compelled to voice my sentiments to their Chamber of Commerce and Olympic Committee . The island i do like and frequent , but have no desire to live their either .

        Calgarians generally marvel at our River Valleys over their own , WEM , Commonwealth Stadium , even our downtown and many other finer and better traits . Beauty is in the eye of the betrayer and you must really hate Calgary if you think Edmonton is ugly !! Maybe you just need to go out and travel some more .

  • cableguy - 2nd Tier Fan

    Burke just recently had made the quote that every Gm basically knows you rebuild from the backend . Seems logical to me . Hall/Seguin don’t appear to be phenoms , so why not build from the backend when it’s our weakest points to begin with ?

      • What do you consider a phenom?

        Do you think the top pick every year is automatically a phenom? Numbers wise this will not be an especially strong number one pick. They look like great prospects but…

        What I am saying is that it all very much comes down to your definition of phenom, because I have a hard time calling someone beneath generational talent a phenom. Neither of these guys is Crosby or Ovechkin. I’m not even certain that either of these guys is as good as a Getzlaff or a Heatley.

        • These guys are supposed to be on par with other former top tier picks like Stamkos, Kane, Malkin, etc. Who is saying they arent going to be as good as the guys you mentioned? Just find me a scout that says either of these kids is going to top out at 60 points on the 2nd line. You wont find one.

          • Find one scout who refers to them as “phenoms”.

            Did I say anything about topping out at 60 points or the second line? I suggested they were not phenoms.

            I specifically asked you for your definition of phenom because if we have different definitions the conversation ends there. If our definitions are the same we have something to talk about. However, reading what you just wrote I can only assume you believe that the cutoff point for calling someone a phenom is 60 points or the second line.

            I should also mention that most of what I have read has them well below the guys you just mentioned, but lets go back to my question.

            Do you consider Kane a phenom? Stamkos?

            I just want to understand why everyone thinks these two guys who have put up slightly low numbers for potential first overall forward picks are suddenly all but guaranteed superstars.

            They look like very good prospects and possible all-stars, but phenoms? Do you see why I want to know what you define as a phenom?

          • Just curious who you are comparing these two guys to when you say they have put up slightly low numbers for potential one and two overall picks because looking back at the last 10 yrs (the 2000’s) of entry drafts they match up pretty well in the group of forwards that were selected either 1 or 2 overall that played in the CHL..

            Before this year there have been 10 forwards taken 1 or 2 that played in the CHL. (3) of them had more points than Hall and Seguin in their draft years while (7) of them didn’t. Of the (3) that beat them (2) of them were a fair distance ahead of them..Crosby and Pat Kane…the other wasn’t that far ahead Jason Spezza

            So I’m thinking their numbers aren’t really all that low comparatively.

          • I’m looking at number twos because one of Hall and Seguin will go number two….I wasn’t really talking phenoms because that is subjective, i was talking about what you said about both Seguin and Hall as having low numbers for being top picks which given the last 10 yrs simply is an incorrect statement…

            Is it only possible to have one phenom per yr? What if both are phenoms? They both can’t go number one.

          • I havent read a single thing that suggested Hall and Seguin dont compare to the guys I listed. Please provide me a link.

            Phenom is probably tough to define, but I’d say Stamkos probably fits the bill right now. Leading the league in goal scoring at 20 years old is quite the feat. Maybe you think only Crosby and Ovechkin deserve that title, but they were both just beaten by Sedin in the scoring race.

          • I would suggest the term phenom is to be reserved for rare talents. Guys that come around only every so often. Guys like Hall and Seguin can be had at number one any year.

            Stamkos scored 58 goals his draft year. Way more than either of these guys, and I don’t remember him being called a phenom when he was going into the draft either. I do recall however that he was more highly regarded than either Hall or Seguin are this year.

            If you are really claiming that you have never heard anything other than that these guys are as good as Stamkos and Kane and Tavares then I an surprised because I have never heard anyone other than Oiler fans describe them as being as good as those guys.

          • Seriously, I just want the link that says these kids arent comparable at all to the past #1s. Yeah, most of what I’ve heard about the kids comes from Oiler fans, we have the most to gain from dissecting them.

            In the sense that there are usually 1 or 2 dynamic players who are heads and tails above the other players in the draft, then yes, guys like Hall and Seguin can be had every year.

      • Pajamah

        Really, what have you come to expect from this guy?

        He just found his “enter” button after a few months of commenting. I wouldn’t take much of what he says seriously.

      • I suppose you think that perhaps getting Hedman and Gudblanson for a flop of first round picks is a bad idea then ? Young defenceman are making almost immediate positive impacts on several cases throughout the league . Oilers are not one of them to date .

        I certainly would not be unhappy to see the Oilers go the route of Hedman and Gudblanson (if it’s possible) for flop of picks .Some of you think i’m drunk , while i wonder if some of you might have callouses over your eyes with some of your comments .

        • OB1 Team Yakopov - F.S.T.N.F

          Swaping the first for for Hedman and Gudbranson would be great…. problem is you are delusional in the other direction on this one… no way TB does that.

          …. other catch is that he is unlikely to fall all the way to #6.

    • Alberta is a hotbed of beautiful women over the years . In fact if you go to many beaches throughout most of N.America and sun destinations many of those women are Alberta women on vacation or transplanted Alberta women . Alberta women need not take a backseat to anyone . The average Alberta woman far exceeds most U.S. women .

      Canadian women in general are very well regarded by beauty standards . Perhaps even due to the cold weather
      that keeps their bodies more tight ?

  • Here’s a link to a tsn story from last september that suggests that many nhl scouts would have taken Taylor Hall had he been eligible for the draft last year ahead of Tavares, Hedman and Duchene. Not bad for a guy who was only 17 at the time.

    It’s also mentioned that Tyler Seguin has blossomed into an elite offensive force.

    Sounds like phenom is at least a possibility…no guarantee but possibility, no?

    So it’s not just Oiler fans that are high on these guys.

    http://www.tsn.ca/draftcentre/feature/?id=11944

    • You are taking my point too far. I don’t object to the idea that these are potentially very good to elite players. My objection is to the term phenom. I never said nobody was high on these guys.

      I am suggesting that a player going into the draft with the term phenom attached is nearly a sure fire hall of famer, not a guy who could maybe be a possible one some day. Besides, what does the possibility of becoming a star later have to do with this conversation? I am talking about what they are now, and I am still waiting to see them referred to as phenoms outside of the Oiler’s sphere of influence.

      As for Hall as a 17 year old…when Tavares put up 134 points as a 16 year old there were scouts saying he might have gone number one that year instead of Kane. So what, showing me a preseason report is hardly a fair statement of how he is regarded at this moment unless you are also going to tell me that people still think Cam Fowler is better than Seguin.

      I don’t believe that “elite offensive force” is equal to “phenom.” If you do, fine. I just think people are using the word phenom without any real measure of its implications.

      Bryce Harper, who is about to go number one in the MLB draft and has been called baseball’s LeBron James is a Phenom, A guy who may not even be the best player born in his draft year is not.

      I love both of these kids as players and can’t wait to see how good they turn out, but I think I have decent reason to question whether we have a phenom on our hands, since the last time I remember a player coming in with that level of regard was Crosby.

      • Crash

        I never once said that these two guys are phenoms…this is a word you have been using and you have attached to it in your mind what it means. Who is to say what classes a player as a phenom, you? me?

        All I said was is it not possible for these guys to become phenomenal players? Given their skills and talent I would say this possibility exists.

        “If you are really claiming that you have never heard anything other than that these guys are as good as Stamkos and Kane and Tavares then I an surprised because I have never heard anyone other than Oiler fans describe them as being as good as those guys”

        That was your statement from post #135….so I just provided a link that showed that if Hall had been draft eligible in 2009 that many scouts would have rated him ahead of Tavares, Hedman and Duchene which clearly was going against your statement above that only Oiler fans believe that Hall/Seguin are as good as those guys…that’s the reason i included the link.

        Phenomenal is described as extraordinary, remarkable…so who decides what that is?

        Actually i think this phenom talk all began with madjam who thinks the Oilers would be better served to trade the 1st overall pick for a d-man (Hedman) who is also still a question mark as to how good he may become and for a later pick so as to take another d-man (if still available with Tampa’s pick) that would also be a big question mark as to how good he is going to be.

        It seems that hockey people in all circles are saying that Hall and Seguin are can’t miss or as close to it as you can get and are clearly the class of this years draft.

        So I guess most Oiler fans are thinking why would you roll the dice so heavily on unproven d-men over one of 2 guys that are being labelled as can’t miss?

        IMO and it’s just my opinion, I think Hall has all the tools that one needs to really become a remarkable player.

        • I never once said that these two guys are phenoms…this is a word you have been using and you have attached to it in your mind what it means. Who is to say what classes a player as a phenom, you? me?

          I never said you did. I was talking to Arch. If you want to reply to a comment directed at someone else you should probably read the conversation first, because because I twice expressed the importance of how we are defining the word and asked arch for his definition. Don’t lecture me on a point I have made quite clearly twice already.

          All I said was is it not possible for these guys to become phenomenal players? Given their skills and talent I would say this possibility exists.

          Did I not already address this? If you can’t grasp the difference between a discussion about how a player is regarded and the possibility that they become something more then I can’t help you.

          so I just provided a link that showed that if Hall had been draft eligible in 2009 that many scouts would have rated him ahead of Tavares, Hedman and Duchene which clearly was going against your statement above that only Oiler fans believe that Hall/Seguin are as good as those guys…that’s the reason i included the link.

          No. You provided a pre-season report about how Hall was regarded entering the season. I clearly responded to this your reply here does not address the concerns I raised – that this is pre-season and that they have Fowler over Seguin. What do you think about my Tavares comment? This is feeling pointless when you don’t seem to want to respond to my actual comments.

          Show me something leading into the draft ranking these guys as hight as the last few number ones and I will take back that they are not as highly regarded GOING INTO THE DRAFT as they were. You seem to think this distinction unimportant, but it means everything and is why I mentioned Tavares 16 year old season.

          The funny thing is…even if you can show me that it still wouldn’t make me think any different because I didn’t consider any of those guy phenoms going into the draft either.

          Phenomenal is described as extraordinary, remarkable…so who decides what that is?

          While this is true common usage of the word phenom typically suggests something a bit more, but you already know this, you just want to argue. 🙂

          AS for the madjam crap…I have no idea why you are telling me any of that. It is completely immaterial to our discussion. Not to mention the fact that I have addressed it previously.

          The entire reason this discussion even started was because I believe that Arch was engaging in a wee bit of hyperbole so I asked him what he considers a phenom to be. Rather than take back the word he chose to defend his usage, (Admittedly I knew he would do exactly that because Arch doesn’t take things back.) and here we are.

          • In post 125 you mention how you don’t understand why everyone thinks these two guys who have put up slightly low numbers for potential first overall picks are suddenly all but guarateed superstars.

            I just assumed that I was part of the core that would be included in the everyone comment so I felt in a around about way you were actually addressing everyone including me and not just Arch.

            All I was doing was attempting to show you that your statements about Hall/Seguin weren’t accurate with respect to where Hall/Seguin slot scoring wise compared to other number ones and that it wasn’t just Oiler fans that are high on Hall/Seguin and feel as though they have a chance to become superstars. If you can’t grasp that then I can’t help you.

            You also said:

            “I should also mention that most of what I have read has them well below the guys you just mentioned, but lets go back to my question”

            Arch asked you to provide just one link that backed up your claim but you didn’t address it so I guess using your analogy it was at that point that things really became pointless. As you ignored that request.

            I guess there’s no real point in trying to dig something up that could possibly show you why these guys Hall/Seguin are ranked as high as similar recent number ones because you’ve already stated even if someone can it still wouldn’t make you think any different.

            But I guess I could ask the same thing in reverse…show me something that says that those guys Hall/Seguin have been touted as not being as good as other recent number ones. But you’ve already been asked that once and either couldn’t come up with it or chose not to.

            Again, I’m of the opinion that these two guys stand just as good of a chance of being superstars as anyone. The fact that they are still just 18 yrs old means we will have to wait to find out. I don’t think anyone has really stated that they are a slam dunk guarantee but there are those that have said that they are above everyone else the class of this years draft.

            Lastly I believe the conversation started when Arch replied to madjam so the madjam crap is not as immaterial to the discussion as you are making it out to be, it was the starting point. And if I’m not mistaken Arch never said that Hall/Seguin were phenoms he just responded to madjam with a question:

            “Hall and Seguin arent phenoms according to who?”

          • In post 125 you mention how you don’t understand why everyone thinks these two guys who have put up slightly low numbers for potential first overall picks are suddenly all but guarateed superstars.

            I just assumed that I was part of the core that would be included in the everyone comment so I felt in a around about way you were actually addressing everyone including me and not just Arch.

            I never said you shouldn’t respond, I said you should be aware of the conversation before doing so to avoid thing like lecturing me on thinks I already said myself.

            All I was doing was attempting to show you that your statements about Hall/Seguin weren’t accurate with respect to where Hall/Seguin slot scoring wise compared to other number ones and that it wasn’t just Oiler fans that are high on Hall/Seguin and feel as though they have a chance to become superstars. If you can’t grasp that then I can’t help you.

            You seem to have a real reading comprehension problem. I never once said others weren’t high on them, I just said they aren’t as high as Oiler fans. You say Arch asked for a link, but I asked for one too and I still haven’t been shown one calling them phenoms. You also have yet to grasp that there is a significant difference between what a player does later in his career and what he is considered to be at the draft. Is Sedin one of the top players in the league? Yes. Was he considered a phenom going into his draft? No.

            The funny thing is that our own statement, that they have as good a chance as anyone, explicitly precludes them from phenom status.

            Arch asked you to provide just one link that backed up your claim but you didn’t address it so I guess using your analogy it was at that point that things really became pointless. As you ignored that request.

            Sorry, but I don’t have time to go back looking for links right now. I can take a minute or two here and there to respond on here but anything beyond that will have to wait.

            I am also still waiting for a link calling them phenoms heading into the draft. Why does a request made of me take precedence over a request made of either of you?

            I guess there’s no real point in trying to dig something up that could possibly show you why these guys Hall/Seguin are ranked as high as similar recent number ones because you’ve already stated even if someone can it still wouldn’t make you think any different.

            I still can’t decide if you are being obtuse or if you really have this much difficulty with reading comprehension. I said it wouldn’t change my mind about calling them phenoms. I also said I would happily recant my position that they aren’t as highly regarded as the last few picks were. Isn’t this what you wanted?

            I don’t think anyone has really stated that they are a slam dunk guarantee but there are those that have said that they are above everyone else the class of this years draft.

            This is basically my point. I don’t think you can call someone something like “phenom” unless they ARE slam dunks.

            Lastly I believe the conversation started when Arch replied to madjam so the madjam crap is not as immaterial to the discussion as you are making it out to be, it was the starting point. And if I’m not mistaken Arch never said that Hall/Seguin were phenoms he just responded to madjam with a question:

            “Hall and Seguin arent phenoms according to who?”

            Right. Madjam ranting about trading for defense has anything to do with my questioning arch about the word phenom.

            So you actually believe that writing to me about how madjam wants defense has anything to do with my opinion that Hall and Seguin should not be called phenoms? Bye bye credibility for crash.

            Here’s a clue, the coincidental fact alone that a something started a conversation does not in any way link it to the topic of the conversation.

            Beyond that – your inane argument that his question did not imply a belief that they are phenoms is not helping your credibility either. Especially considering the fact that arch has defended the position.

          • Actually what I’ve noticed from you on this site is you bounce around from comment to comment and make it a point to ridicule people…it’s like it’s a hobby of yours…you don’t often lend much to the conversation other than to attack people.

            So I was wondering if your rant on me and questioning my reading comprehension and my credibility level and getting it all out in the open made you feel any better than before you went off like a six yr old…

            I could question your reading comprehension too I suppose given your profound, over intelligent responses but I’m afraid I couldn’t keep up with you…you’re too smart for me.

          • I’m glad you finally realized it. ;P

            I guess the difference between my rants and yours is that I have no emotional investment in it while you seem to think arguing has something to do with being angry or upset.

            I will address one thing though. It isn’t that I bounce around looking for someone to ridicule. I merely don’t bother posting unless I see something I disagree with. It doesn’t start with ridicule, merely disagreement, but invariably someone will chime in with a reply that ignores 80% of what has been said and is begging for ridicule. So, at times, I can’t help myself.

          • If you had such an easy time with that then why couldn’t you find anything that quickly on what you supposedly read that indicated to you that both Hall and Seguin were not only below them guys but well below them…I refer you again to post #125.

            So I question why didn’t you just find these things that you’ve read that have stated this?

            Oh forget it….like I said you’re way too smart for me…

            You win, I give up

          • I’m confused – I just wrote a post saying you were right on a particular point and you are somehow arguing about it…

            I’m not sure what you are getting at. I guess this is what I mean when I question your reading comprehension.

  • Some interesting tidbits from Matty in the Journal today:

    – suggests not a lot of teams lining up for Souray (no surprise), but mentions the Sharks & Devils as possibilities… says Sharks would likely offer up D Kent Huskins ($1.7M) & F Torrey Mitchell ($1.3M).
    – suggests Oil dangle #31 to CHI for F Kris Versteeg.
    – Oilers won’t be resigning F Vlad Trukhno or F Geoff Paukauvich, and may let Ryan O’Marra go in favour of Colin McDonald.
    – the word on D John Scott is he’s a great dressing-room prescence who can often be found doing crossword puzzles an hour after the game; also trying to finish his degree in engineering.
    – says you can bet the Oilers are asking Boston about Blake Wheeler and/or #15 in any talks of swapping picks, but also mentions 23 yr old 6’5″ RW Mikko Lehtonen down on the farm.

  • madjam, I have not traveled to many NHL cities, but the places I have traveled to all look better than Edmonton. Yes, Edmonton has a nice river valley, but White Ave looks greasy, there is a web of unappealing overhead lines throughout the city, and much of what I’ve seen of it looks dirty and industrial. I’m not saying that Calgary is head-and-shoulders above it, but I do think Calgary looks better, and the other dozen or however many medium/large cities I’ve been to are significantly more aesthetically appealing.

    @TigerUnderGlass:
    Lower taxes, yes. Less violent crime? In 2008 (most recent year I could pull up without much effort) Edmonton had a higher violent crime severity index than Vancouver; Calgary’s is lower, but this discussion is focusing on Edmonton (I pulled Calgary into it partially so Edmontonians wouldn’t see me as just bashing their hometown). Investment opportunities? Again, we’re talking guys who make seven figures; they don’t need to invest. There are certainly some advantages (Calgary being built on the most excellent grid system, which I am in love with, is one of the cleanest cities in the world, etc), but the perceived disadvantages tend to outweigh the advantages.

    And just to clarify my position, I personally love Calgary, and I think Edmonton is alright. But put yourself in an outsider’s shoes – these two cities, probably Edmonton moreso than Calgary, lack a lot of the flashiness that can draw someone to the other areas (again, things like great weather, high culture, abundant good food).

  • Just how valuable are Hall/Seguin ? If Chicago was to offer Toews or Kane for our first pick should we take it ? Would you turn it down ? Maybe not such a bad idea considering Hawks cap situation going into next year .

    Take some of the others some of you have mentioned Hall/Seguin being as good as over the last few drafts . How many of those names would you turn down straight up , if any ?

    I wonder what sorts of offers we are getting from other clubs for Hall/Seguin worth contemplating . What sort of value others put in to obtain our pick is probably a good indicator of their value .

        • You have taken serious offence to a small bit of terminology. I dont understand the reason for your ire. Perhaps what you deem Phenom I would call Prodigy, but either way, you’ve spent a lot of space arguing semantics. Settle down.

          All of Crash’s points are reasonable, and yet you respond with ridicule. You are the only one unable to let go of your single, and completely arbitrary, point.

          I obviously touched a nerve when I suggested that Hall and Seguin are the clear cut best players in the draft. If that ISNT what your panties are in a knot about then I suggest you take a minute and reflect about why you’re wasting so much time.

          • What ire. I don’t take offense, I’m amusing myself. See, no reflection needed. Besides, I’m not wasting that much time, it only takes a minute or two to respond.

            He annoyed me by jumping in with an idiotic reply to what should have been a short conversation about how you define the word phenom.

            Why wouldn’t I agree that they are the best players in the draft? They clearly are. If that is how you define phenom then you have answered my question.

            Now all that being said, you are one of the last people with the right to tell someone not to waste time arguing an arbitrary point, and you certainly know how annoying it is to be told to settle down when all you are doing is arguing with someone.

            In fact, until just now I had considered you one of the few people on here who doesn’t take a simple argument personally. What does arguing have to do with “ire” or “settling down”? It’s just conversation.

            If crash has had enough with the conversation he simply has to either stop or say he doesn’t want to proceed. I’m just having some fun between working on files.

            I apologize if my boredom offended you.

          • I’ll argue Hall vs Seguin to death, or whether Eberle should or should not be in the AHL next year for pages. You were going off over the word ‘Phenom’. I would consider that a pretty big difference.

            I like to argue as well, but each time you were asked to support your stance you turned it back to me. You were bored enough to complain about the word phenom but not enough to give a reason why?

          • I did explain why, but I wasn’t trying to turn anything on you, I really just wanted an explanation of what you though makes a kid going into the draft a “phenom”, because based on how I saw the word typically used I though you were being slightly hyperbolic.

            I think I flat out asked you to define it 2 or 3 times. How does that qualify as turning it on you?

            In other words, I wasn’t arguing the semantics with you, I was asking you your definition specifically to avoid an argument on semantics, but then crash jumped in.

  • You guys are getting all bent out of shape about the term “phenom”. My definition would be something along the lines of “Exceptionally gifted so as to be remarkable.”

    Here’s a somewhat arbitrary list of modern sports phenoms – http://www.chicagonow.com/blogs/george-ofman-thats-all-she-wrote/2010/02/post.html

    Hall and Seguin are certainly good, but not in the “phenom” category like Tiger woods or Wayne Gretzky. Anybody who thinks otherwise is spending a bit too much time in front of the ‘puter reading ~legendary~ sites like Hockeybuzz and HF boards.

    But at the end of the day, it depends on how rigid your definition of the word is. I’m not sure if you could present an acceptable criteria for the word that would include either player.

  • Eddie Shore

    blah blah blah blah. Really? All this debate over what each person considers to be a phenom? Who gives a sh*t. Tyler Seguin is better than Taylor Hall(there, that should start a different debate).