Flames Trade Keith Seabrook

 

 

The Flames announced via twitter today that they have acquired defenseman Jordan Henry from the Florida Panthers for Keith Seabrook.

This deal is entirely about swapping one non-roster guy for the other. The Flames lent Seabrook to the Manitoba Moose at the end of last season, which usually indicates the organization isn’t terrible enamoured with a player. Henry in a 25-year old undrafted defender out of the WHL who played in the KHL last year. The only marginal benefit I can see from the Flames perspective is Henry is slightly cheaper than Seabrook in terms of salary. 

Seabrook was a former 2nd round pick of the Washington Capitals who was acquired by the Flames in the summer of 2009. He spent a couple of seasons on the farm, but never took a real step forward. A smaller defender, Seabrook’s defense has always been something of question mark. Unfortunately, he never put up the kind of offensive numbers that might push him into the big league, topping out with a career high of 10 goals and 28 points in the AHL.

At 23-years old, there still some growth left in Seabrook, so maybe he’ll progress in the Florida organizaion. Clearly the Flames think he’s reached his peak, however.

    • Prairie Chicken by-the-Sea

      I think we all have to come to terms with what is the real value of players like Stajan and Hagman. They have little appeal to other teams and would only be part of a salary dump, i.e., Hagman or Stajan for a late round pick at best. Again, I think we sound like Leafs fans in grossly overvaluing our roster deadweight.

      • Nah, not overvaluing Hagman, thought he might be an ideal winger with only 1 year left to help Winnipeg add some salary. Dont think their ownership is like Pegula & about to throw money around. Not even sure about Begosian & if he’s the right guy to go after. Depending on price. I think Alzner would be more worth while sacrificing a healthy package to attain. Cant see Begosian signing for more than 2.5Mill on a shorter term.
        Any legs to some of the twitters that Stamkos fed up and would like a sign & trade to aCanadian team like Leafs/Senators or Flames?

    • Be careful about tossing Moss into any deals. I was perusing some advanced stats the other day and was shocked by the statistical company that he keeps.

      Moss’s 5v5 Points/60 (min 40 games played) in 2010-2011 was just behind Iginla and Toews, and just ahead of Vanek & Semin. He also had the 3rd highest CORSI REL on the team.

      I certainly don’t think that he is in the same class of player as Toews or Iginla, but he is very good bang for the buck. Moss is a highly underrated dude at only $1.3M/year.

      • DieHard

        Actually, I’m not arguing the great value Moss was, thats why I threw him in with Hagman & a draft for Begosian scenario. Problem we have trying to score a top 4 dman is either Hagman goes the other way in the package or our owners need to be prepared to bury him as an injury reserve in Abbottsford. Not sure if Feaster has that luxury at this point.

    • Ken V.

      First of all is Bogosian…..second your 2012 1st rnd pick would have to be part plus a roster player (Giordano). and no spare parts and a 2nd is not enough!!

      • Ken V.

        LMAO, LMAO, LMAO!!!!, Am I reading this right? You are telling me the asking price for Begosian is our 1st rounder next year and Giordano, LOL.

        I’d take Giordano over Begosian 9 times out of 10. Giordano is an established NHLer on what looks to be the bargain of bargain contracts. And no way we trade our first(high first most likely), we are more likely to get a better defender out of this draft than Begosian has been so far. I think Begosian is gonna get a decent return, but nothing near the deal you seemed to have mentioned.

        • Ken V.

          Bogosian is no near to reach his peak yet, he’s 20 years old and a top prospect,and has the potential to be a 1-2 defenseman. You think Winnipeg would let him go for peanuts….somebody mention a 2nd and stajan….that is a joke!!

          • Ken V.

            Of course a 2nd and Stajan is a joke, almost as bad as a first and Giordano.

            Giordano is a real NHLer, a guy who can be on a first pairing where he can be a point producer or can play in a shut down type role. bogosian may not be near his peak, but the question is, does he even ever reach it. Lets look at some other incredible high defensive draft picks the last five or so years.

            2006 – Erik Johnson, again another guy that has really lived up to the hype, however he’s proved a whole hell of a lot more than Bogosian.
            2007 – Thomas Hickey and Karl Alzner, Hickey hasn’t lived up to his high draft at all, having not cracked an NHL line up yet and being pretty average in the AHL thus far. Alzner may not get you a ton of points but he is easily a premiere shut down defender already.
            2008 – Pietrangelo, Had a FANTASTIC first full NHL year, gave STL a reason to trade Johnson. Doughty, He made the CANANDIAN Olympic team, should say enough about how good everyone knows he is. Bogosian, we will get back to him.
            2009 – Victor Hedman, had a bit of a rough season, but everyone is starting to see why he was taken so high.

            Those guys are all showing the reason they were drafted so high, except for maybe Hickey, and Bogosian to me looks like hes going that way as well, horrible +/-, low points and bad corsi(if I’m reading it right). His zone starts seem to indicate that last year they were trying to use him as a shutdown guy, but his bad plus/minus and corsi lead me to believe he wasn’t doing to well.

            Bogosian is a very good prospect, but he’s just that, he’s a prospect still, even after all his NHL games, he hasn’t shown the reason he was taken so high. I don’t think you are gonna get as much a return as you are. It’s probably more a middle ground between the 1st/Giordano and the 2nd/Stajan grounds.

          • Ken V.

            Why would we ever even consider giving up our first rounder for next year, and also by the way we have no second rounder next year because we chose to dump Kotalik’s salary. Just that I think the price of that was a little high even with the resigning of Tanguay.

            Bogosian would definately be worth a look at. I think his peak would definately be at least a top 3 Dman. But I want to start holding onto our draft picks at least! Now Feaster will have to give up another good player to get back that 2nd possibly.

            I’m just glad to see all those contracts running out, it gives us a lot more room to work with and my guess is at the end of next summer, our roster will look very different.

          • Ken V.

            Yeah, dont shoot me, I had suggested Hagman/Moss & a 2nd, I thought Moss & Hagman were good value because Winnipeg were still under the cap floor, they seem to have 3 of their top 4 D in place & because Begosian struggled. I thought perhaps there may be a deal Feaster could maybe win & prove to us he’s a rockstar:) Yes guilty for dreaming.
            No way Gio & a 1st for Begosian. I wouldnt do Gio & a 1st for Alzner. We need Gio going forward as a key part when our core starts to get younger.

  • Dr. Nick

    I think if the Flames wanted Zach Bogosian it would take a high quality prospect and a 3rd round pick. The Jets don’t have real cap problems because there is plenty of time to reach the floor and the management seems to be the patient type. They aren’t looking to sell, so anyone looking to buy is at the disadvantage.

    As for Keith Seabrook, I always hoped he would turn into Brent Seabrook for us but I guess I’m outta luck. My hope now rests that Henry is more than just an injury call up and he has a good camp. By the way, what is scouting report on Henry’s skating?

      • Dr. Nick

        Thanks Kent for trying, I was just hoping the Flames would try stocking up on mobile defensemen and not defensemen that come with a free pair of concrete skates, even if it is for just our farm team. Here is another question for you, the Panthers traded for Angelo Esposito, would he be the kinda player you might trade for with hopes he could turn it around or is he Alexandre Daigle Part 2: The Revenge of the Daigle?

        As for Brodie and a 3rd for Bogosian, it depends how good of a salesman Feaster is, and after the whole Regehr incident, I wouldn’t count on that trade happening. Then again, anything is possible.

        • Esposito is pretty awful. He’s also terribly injury prone. Nothing there.

          I have no idea what the pricetag would be for Bogo. Hemsky+ sounds like overpayment to me, but he’s obviously not going to go for a 3rd rounder and spare parts like Hagman. The truth is likely in the middle.

    • Would you part with Brodie & a 3rd to get Begosian if you were Feaster? I think I would as long as the pick is a 3rd rounder. I think Brodie has a great chance of sticking as 5th or 6th with the Flames. I think Begosian under Sutter can settle into that top 4 we desperately need. We actually have 2 openings in that top 4 given the fact I can truly see Sarich moved at the trade deadline.

      • Prairie Chicken by-the-Sea

        Not to constantly shoot you down, but Begosian is a still-developing high draft pick coming into his fourth season. Why at this early stage in his career would the Jets dump him for a late round pick and a 5-6 d-man?

  • It’s almost like they just made a trade to make a trade, I don’t think the panthers wanted Henry as he didn’t want to be there(hence singing in the KHL) and I don’t think the flames wanted Seabrook on their 50 man roster anymore either(as is evidence by the move to the Mosse). I think Seabrook was an acquisition because of his name more than anything, cause he’s never really put up significant points or was never an elite defender of any significance.

    I’m kinda interested in Henry to see where he fits on Abbotsfords depth chart as he is behind probably 5 or 6 guys just to see time at the 6 spot on the flames. I’m also kinda leery of his PIM numbers, I’ve never been a fan of guys with overly huge PIMs, like we really need a Shane O Brien who takes 2-3 dumb penalties a game.

  • RexLibris

    Yeah, no offense there guys, but Oiler fans have been theorizing what it would take to get Bogosian out of Atlanta/Winnipeg (we started that train late last year) and the pricetag started at Hemsky and a couple of high 2nd rounders or a blue chip prospect. I doubt there’d be much desire in the FlamesNation to offer up a 1st, 2nd (other than the one that went with Kotalik to the Sabres), and a couple of can’t miss kids for Bogosian and spare change. I think that’s what it would take right now. You’re best bet is that Bogosian pulls a Cam Barker and is bought out only to be signed as an Unrestricted Free Agent by your club. Rumours have been going around for awhile that Dudley was shopping Bogo but never got the return he wanted, and Cheveldayoff seems a lot more conservative that his predecessor.

  • Dr. Nick

    I don’t think either player is finished as far as having NHL potential. With Babchuk, Brodie, Negrin, Wilson etc ahead of him in the depth chart Seabrook wasn’t going to get an opportunity with the Flames. This gives him an opportunity he wasn’t going to get here.

    As for Henry, the little I can find is optimistic. He was at a Flames training camp before going to the KHL. Brent likes him and coached him as a Rebel.

    I think he will make a push along with Wilson, Brodie, Mikkelson, and Carson for that 6/7 spot and at a minimum provide us with some NHL depth and a decent AHL defender.

  • Ken V.

    Yeah, would love to Flames pull the trigger on a young stud dman because I truly see us with only 2 top4 dmen right now. Forget the 1st line centre, they arent out there & too huge demand as we saw with Richards. I know Rex is right, Oilers have been after Begosian as well & I think that is evidence that the asking price is way higher than anyone wants to pay, including Oilers who have lots of top prospects to buy one & need one as bad as we do. Just wishful thinking. I feel like we are stuck on a train after we missed our stop & its a long ways to the next one. I think this it what we got until next year &/or trade deadline. Truthfully , I have no idea what to expect from our Flames this upcoming year, either pleasantly suprised or our worst fears confirmed. So far, I really like Feasters ability to negotiate these new contracts, I think he’s been solid in balancing dollars & term. Its his trading, if the Regehr deal is any indication, that’s scaring the crap out of me. Daryl used to pull some outright highway robberies as well as lay a lot of rotten eggs but he couldnt negotiate a decent contract worth a damn( although I did like Bourques deal). Deals like today are all Im expecting until next Feb.

  • Ken V.

    Well its funny as I was just talking amongst fellow fans today about who we had for defensive prospects and who would have a shot at breaking into the line up. Brodie/Seabrook/Negrin were the ones we thought had a chance. And then to find out that Seabrook was dealt for a relatively unknown player made me once again shake my head. Perhaps Feaster should be named GM for the Heat since every move he has made has only been of the AHL nature. We don’t need a Richards or a Semin, we need hard working players that believe in our system. Again back to missing out on Connolly and Bergfors. Yes Bergfors has been lackadaisical in the past but he seems to be someone who would thrive under the pressure of playing for a Canadian club. just my thoughts, still waiting to see or hear how we are actually going to improve this team. Its not like we were far off last year and had minor holes to fill but now we are worse off with no apparent direction to improve. Perhaps Feaster will be let go on Boxing Day this year and we will fall just shy again. Who knows.

      • Ken V.

        Fair enough, just frustrating because his priorities seem to only be with the AHL. He has made the first team worse than it was instead of the few tweaks he had mentioned before. We have the cap room so we need to use it properly, that is all I was getting at. And its true Seabrook was a soft spot for me as I truly thought he would be the player he could be, and honestly he hasn’t. So I admit my reaction was pre-mature but hey that makes this fun sometimes.

        • Actually, he doesn’t have much cap space. There is only $3.8M left and that only includes 21 players. http://capgeek.com/charts.php?Team=9

          If they bring up Nemisz, Negrin and/or Brodie to fill the last 2 roster spots then the cap space is more like $2M. I don’t see Feaster going any closer to the cap than that at the beginning of the season.

          If Feaster is going to do anything at this point, then it is going to have to be salary for salary, or hiding someone like Hagman in the AHL.

          Frankly, I will be surprised if you see many changes, unless a true top 4 defender becomes available (or Semin falls in our lap). If that happens then Feaster has some juggling to do.

    • Why would it make you shake your head, you should be shaking your head thinking Seabrook was ever ready to make the leap to the NHL. To think he’s been a journeymen NHLer for a while with decent enough size from what I understand and he was handily outplayed by the likes of Brodie(in his first AHL season) last year. As well IMO both Breen and Negrin put in better defensive performances than Seabrook as well.

      When you look at who is gonna be the guys called up or gonna get a shot at the NHL, if you have a defensive defiecency you better be putting up 40 or more points up on the back end to make up for it. Seabrook has put up over 30 points only twice in his entire career to this point, not something that screams he deserves any sort of chance with his big defensive holes.

  • Ken V.

    In no particular order we pretty much have our 6/7 NHL defensemen, Bouwmeester, Giordano, Sarich, Butler, Babchuk, Carson/Mikkelson.

    And for our AHL its starting to look like our 6/7 defensemen will be, Brodie, Breen, Wilson, Negrin, Henry, Piskula.

    Pretty much looks like there is no room really for any more players, probably a few guys that will be on AHL deals for Injuries or PTOs or whatever.

  • Dr. Nick

    Everyone is counting Mikkelson as part of the Flames top 7 defensemen but he hasn’t signed yet. What do you think is the hold up on the Brendan Mikkelson signing? He is an RFA, so has he filed for arbitration?.

  • No he doesn’t have arbitration rights, or if he did, he didn’t file for it cause his name isn’t on the list.

    And he may be weighing his options for Europe or Russia or seeing if the Flames want to trade him or something. He realizes that he is probably the 7th guy and won’t see much ice or will be with the AHL heat, and he probably doesn’t care for that. So he is looking at options and seeing whats out there. Wouldn’t surprise me to see him not here by the start of training camp.

  • RexLibris

    Regarding Feaster’s focus on the Heat, perhaps he’s figuring that the path of least resistance to improving the parent club is to improve the farm team and push your prospects to develop. I’m ashamed of the way the Oil wasted all those years undervaluing a farm team and the development strategy. It sometimes seems like Feaster is doing something in order to be seen to be doing something, but perhaps there is method hiding in there somewhere. At this point there aren’t any big trades to be made, and most of the UFAs have been signed, so why not tinker with the system and see if you can push Nemisz or someone else to exceed expectations, if not this year maybe next.

    • Prairie Chicken by-the-Sea

      I agree. There is no quick fix to this mess we’re in. On the other hand the prospect of rebuilding like the Oilers will take years. Sigh.

  • Ken V.

    We went from having one of the best Defensive depth cores to the mess we have now, we desperately need a top 4 D and this needs to be addressed, the 6/7 that was posted earlier boasts 3 or 4 defenders I would trust on my back end, If JBo is our #1, we need a true #2. Why is everyone so against the idea of cap friendly Sopel? He should be an option. His salary last season was only $2M, the fact he has not signed yet means he would likely sign for less than that. Even if it is just a band-aid for now.

    • I don’t know if Sopel is a top-4 d-man anymore. He hasn’t really been for awhile, really. He is also as slow as molasses.

      Speaking of cap friendly top-4 d, Mike Lundin signed in Minny for all of $1M. He’s mid-20’s and has actually played tougher minutes the last few years in T-bay. Missed the bus on that one.

  • Ken V.

    I don’t get the negative comments towards Feaster trying to make the Heat more competitive and addressing our depth in the minors. If we want to remain a competitive team we need guys that can step up and play if someone gets hurt or injured.

    There is really no point in messing with our roster to much this year as we may be headed into a lockout the next year which is why Feaster was looking at a few moves rather than a full re-shaping of the Roster, who knows what the Next CBA may bring.

    • Ken V.

      I truly think that the new CBA has really got to be weighing on Featers mind. It will be even more prominent for potential trade value for players in the last year of their contracts at the trade deadline. The likes of Langkow, Hagman, Sarich, Moss, Jokinen could get better than normal returns to a team in the playoff mix for a potential Cup run. I am assuming we are not a playoff bound team & will know that by next Feb. Lets face it guys, if we are going to war with this roster, we have 2 true top 4 d & Sarich is a stretch & he is also injury prone. If we get injuries back there this year, I’m almost scared to think about poor Kipper/Karlson.

      • Ken V.

        And with a poor GAA as a result, could we justify keeping Kipper? Would his potential return diminish as well? I just don’t see going into the season with the Defense we have boding well for the team.

        • Ken V.

          Depending on the next CBA and if its similar to this one, a team may actually give us a good assest for Kipper next year if he even does just decent this year. Next year his dollars are lower than his cap hit and then the last year of the contract he only makes a million bucks and has a cap hit of almost 6 million. So if there still is a high cap floor and teams still have a desperate need to reach it Kipper is a real good assest for them as he may still be a good option in goal and falsely get them to the floor without actual dollars.

  • Ken V.

    What if Irving exceeds expectations in the AHL this year and Karlsson improves on his already good season from last season. You would rather potentially lose a guy like Irving if he contines to get better over an aging Kipper that isn’t getting any better. If we can get a really good asset for Kipper and we can succesfully run a tandem of Irving and Karlsson I have no problem with that. Especially if its a really good asset at that.

    • Ken V.

      Irving isn’t so great yet, he needs work. Just saying. This is also a business and Kipper sells merchandise, I don’t foresee people running out to buy their Irving jersey. Not yet anyways.

      • Ken V.

        I would think at this point Kipper jersey sales have pretty much plateau’d I would think, unless he has the most resergent season ever and gets us to a couple rounds of playoffs, I would think his jersey sales will be on the side of modest rather then his big break though in 04.

        Like I said, its if Irving can take the next step, we’ll have to see, if he’s capable, then I like the idea of trading Kipper, if he is not, then well, we’ll see cause then we may be in a big goalie hole and thats not a good thing.

        • Ken V.

          You are likely right about jersey sales, I’m just saying he has selling power to the fans and season ticket holders. I do agree that Irving is almost ready I just don’t see it happening this season. I hope that by mentoring Ortio, Irving can mature and develop the confidence to live up to his potential. I think this is an important year for him to remain in the AHL and that’s why Karlsson got the 2 yr contract to push off the challenge for a 1st team spot for another year. Irving proves himself this year he gets a raise and an NHL contract in my eyes.

  • Ken V.

    I hope you don’t mean this year, he still has 3 years on his deal left including this year plus he still has a NMC which runs our after this season with only two years left on the deal.

    I want Irving to play #1 minutes in the AHL this year, easily the best thing for his development.

    • Ken V.

      Hahaha he sure likes to drop them for someone who can’t fight. Holy shit. I like the one where he drops his stick before the face off. We picked up a winner today.

    • We need something badly here Kent, We’ve only had the Regehr trade and the Brad Richards signing for a whole evening, this offseason has been really lackluster all around for the flames.

      Also like to add, that piece you put out on Twitter about Malarchuk was great. Got to meet the guy through work on July 1st, really, REALLY nice guy to talk to.

      • Ken V.

        I agree, the Flames as an organization said we were going to improve this off season with only a few minor tweaks to the line up, so far we have only gotten worse. Regehr for peanuts and loss of a pick is a bs move unless he does something with the room it cleared up. This waiting game does work both ways, yes we are trying to not over pay or over compensate for players via the market or trade, however, if we wait too long we miss out completely. Don’t want to see the latter happen.

        • Ken V.

          Ken I hate to say it but as much as we all want big things to happen, get used to what we have.What kind of trade do you think we can make? JBO’s contract right now is considered a salary dump, so basically other GM’s would treat that as a favor to Feaster & want our 1st round pick to do us the favor. You have to keep him. We can make a blockbuster with Iggy, we may get good value for Gio, maybe, if Kipper waives his NMC, Islanders may give us a good package for him, maybe. Other than that, we have nothing to trade that isnt considered doing us a favor with maybe the exception of Bourque. We’ve got 16-20 mill of contracts with players that havent shown much in the last 2 years coming off the books at the end of the year. Our time in the spotlight is a year away. So if we have to ride out this year, Feaster & King still have to sell us to believe this team can compete to be a playoff team this year based on their performance in the 2nd half of last year. A nice spin seeing many of these players will be playing for a future NHL contract and historically players have their best years in these scenarios.
          I love my Flames but it is what it is. As fans, we need to look past this year and hope Feaster & King make wise decisions for the future of this team. I do believe Feaster is smart in getting our AHL team house in order so we dont have future young players pulling an Erixon on us. Who knows, we may just get some nice suprises this year.

    • Ken V.

      I was just thinking that Kent. I had a feeling Seabrook would be moved, especially considering how he was loaned to Manitoba at the end of last year. I don’t think Keith will get a sniff in the NHL, so not even close to his bro (a former Lethbridge Hurricane!)

  • Ken V.

    BTW guys, since we are now in the boring part of the off-season, I am now counting the days till next season. Only 2 months and 28 days till the opener against the Pens!

  • RexLibris

    Re: the Bogosian trade idea.
    I think the point is that Winnipeg would ask for Gio and a 1st or Brodie, (prospect) + a 1st. I’m not saying that’s fair value, but neither would Hagman, Moss, and a 1st be to Winnipeg. If a deal sounds good to a fan of one team, it probably sounds bad to the fan of the other. From the Peg’s point of view getting a 1st rounder, even a high one for a defensive prospect already 2 years into his development seems like a bad trade. To a Flames fan the idea of getting the prospect you want as opposed to another team’s stagnating pick seems like a bad deal. That’s why trades like that rarely happen at this time of year, because GMs have their heads screwed on straight in terms of trades (but not necessarily when it comes to UFA contracts). If we were at the trade deadline and Calgary was down 2 top defensemen and 4 points from a playoff spot then trading a package of picks and prospects for someone similar to Bogosian is more likely to happen. Just ask Dean Lombardi about how playoff-tinted glasses can make a player’s value skyrocket. *coughPennercough*