Jokinen and Kipper Futures

 

 

As we while away the days between now and the end of the season, I’m working my way through some questions I’ve had via the site and twitter. Specifically, the future of Olli Jokinen, the potential impact of losing Kiprusoff and why Calgary went from seventh to 26th in goals for in the space of a single season.

Less Shots, Less Goals

We’ll deal with the last question first – last year, the Flames scored 241 goals, 162 at even strength. This year, with two games remaining, they’ve managed just 191, 127 at ES. Assuming Calgary manages, say, 5 goals in their last two games, that’s a gross difference of 45, with most of that made up at five on five (30-35 goals).

One of the most obvious deficiencies this season was shot generation. Last year, Calgary garnered 2501 shots on net (15th). This year, they sunk to 2207 (25th). If they’re per game average is stable through the rest of the year, that number should settle at about 2262. That’s a difference of 239 shots.

That number is a little muddled because it includes all game states, however – at ES, the Flames averaged just 27 shots/game this year, versus 29.8 last season. 2.8 shots per game sounds like a small amount, but over 82 games that makes for a 230 shot difference. Add in a slight dip in SH% (8.1% versus 8.9%) and a few less shorthanded and 5on3 goals and you have the difference.

Rare game states like SH and 5on3 are mostly the province of chance. Shots on net at 5on5 is the real problem and is due to a number of issues – the swath of injuries for one. However, the Flames top end guys all spending a lot more time in their own end because they can’t hang with other top lines is the major stumbling block. Iginla’s ability to drive play has been eroding for several seasons and we saw this year his first real step below mediocrity by that measure.

The team will probably slightly improve at getting shots on net next year as long as their middle-tier guys stay healthy, but there won’t be real improvement along those lines until the club has a top six that can drive the puck north with some sort of efficiency.

The Kipper Conundrum
 

"The Flames would be last in the league without Kipper."

I’m usually greeted with the above statement, or some variant, whenever the issue of potentially trading Kiprusoff comes up (we’ll deal with this topic in detail down the road). Feaster obviously fed this fire at some point this season by saying as much during some conference or scrum. It’s hyperbolic at best and completely misleading at worst, however. 

I already wrote about this in detail in February when Kipper was red hot, but I guess it bears repeating:

If we combine the two most recent seasons, his ES SV% is .922, or .2% higher than the average NHL goalie. That’s worth a net five goals over 2814 shots, or one win in two seasons (if you round up).

The average ES SV% in the NHL is surprisingly stable at about .920 every year. And the goalie market tends to be the most saturated of all the positions each year – you can typically buy average-ish goaltending at bargain rates. To be fair, Kiprusoff was definitely better than average this season (.927 ES SV%) and was worth +13 goals above average to the Flames…or two wins. Minus those two wins the Flames end up…11th in the west, but a little further away from 8th. 

Of course, the final argument against this sort of cold calculation is that Kipper’s SV% is deflated by the Flames terrible defense and a truly average goalie wouldn’t manage an average SV% behind Calgary’s lackluster group. this line of thinking problematic for two reasons:

1.) If you heavily weight team contributions in SV%, then it makes sense to spend money and assets on skaters rather than a goalie. The better the team, the less goals against as a matter of course, making the ‘tender more or less interchangeable.

2.) In reality, it’s next to impossible to prove a direct causal relationship between SV% and team quality. For example, this season was by far the worst iteration of the Flames in recent memory – they gave up more shots and scoring chances than any of the years I’ve been counting chances. And yet Kipper had one of his best seasons in the last 5 years.

That is anecdotal, but most inquiries into the relationship between SV% and team skill ends up with similarly a shaky correlation at best.

Even if you grant that Kipper is currently an above average goalie, the final question is how long we can expect him to keep up that level of play. He has managed below average SV% in two of the last four seasons and is turning 36 years old in October. The chances for a real and sudden drop in play grow exponentially at this point in his career. This summer may vey well be the club’s final opportunity to deal Kiprusoff for anything significant.

The Future of Jokinen

Ryan discussed this issue earlier today, but I’ll add my voice to the crowd – the last 10 games or so say nothing in particular about Olli Jokinen, because a sample of that size is just too small to judge anything appropriately. Although we as fans place greater importance on the stretch drive and therefore weight performances appropriately in our minds, the truth is the forces that cause random ups and downs in sports (and life) have no interest in our subjective evaluations.

And just as I warned against lionizing Jokinen during his relative hot streak (when he was being called a great two-way player and the Flames most consistent forward) I would council folks from drawing conclusions about his character or will to win because of a cold snap. The percentage went south on the guy at the wrong time of the season and he probably didn’t have much or any control over it.

The relevant facts about Jokinen remain unchanged: he’s a 34 year old center who is decent on the PP, mediocre at ES and will be looking for a significant contract this coming summer. Ideally, he should slot on a team’s 2nd or 3rd line, face middling competition and get decent PP time. One should also be prepared for a drop-off in production in the near future given his age.

Price him in your mind accordingly.

  • Franko J

    Re: Jokinen, I’ve priced him in my mind accordingly at he comes out at “don’t re-sign him”. Any amount I can give is to small to even come up in negotiations between Olli and the Flames. Just like Babchuk was the ‘canary in the coal mine’ last year (that’s one dead looking canary), I think it’s Jokinen this year. He’s still a decent player, but they have no shortage of decent and they can’t afford to pay a bunch for more. I am very opposed to the tear-down idea, but probably prefer that to re-signing Olli.

  • Franko J

    telling tale, great work kent. another year older and that much closer to death. the time is here to blow this dog and pony show up. the flames need to borrow dale talon’s book and stockpile draft choices. look at the hawks and panthers drafts then compare the dismal flames.

  • Franko J

    I have watched some great pre-playoff hockey. The flames are quite boring. I really think it’s time to get rid of some of the core including Jokinen and Krpper and start a rebuild. I really don’t really have too much faith in king and feaster

  • SmellOfVictory

    I said it before and I’ll say it again: Feaster should’ve shipped Jokinen off at the deadline if he could’ve gotten him to waive his NMC.

    As to Kiprusoff and Iginla, I think they should both be available (again, in Iginla’s case, if the NMC might be waived) for trade. I love them both, but this team is not in a position to be helped by them next season. Unless Feaster gets one or two of the UFA whales, the original core guys need to be let go, at least temporarily. There’s always the possibility that Iginla could come back after a season abroad.

  • Brent G.

    I really think the flames should trade kipper because they will get a lot of value. Just like Kent said, Kipper is a slightly above average sv% wise but makes some great saves and get noticed. Not that Im saying he’s not valuable, I think he’s been great. But I think this offseason is one where you could unload him and get some assets. Irving could step in and be descent. Its not like we are competing for a cup or even a playoff spot, so why not move on.

    I think Oli can come back for 3 mil a year, not a dollar more. And he will be looking for 4 or 5 so we should cut ties. Next year we can have Cammaralli, Stajan and Backlund as our top 3 centers. Not ideal but we are rebuilding.. lets get on with it.

  • ChinookArchYYC

    The last 10 games are the best thing that could have happened to this team. The Flames management will it find tough to sell ‘staying the course’ in this city, after fans watched one of the worst playoff pushes in Flames history. Conversely, management will have more freedom from critical fans to make the neccessary changes required to put this team on track. So, they now have the opportunity to make radical changes like trading Kipprusoff and letting Jokinen walk.

    As for fans that believe we can retool via the UFA’s, think again. Along with the Flames, there are plenty of teams with lots of cap space (not the least of which are the Wings) wading through a long list of very average players. This is a big concern for this team, because we have so many needs. Next year may well be worse than this one, if Feaster can’t make lemonade out of lemons in the off season.

    The more I write, the more depressed I get . . .

  • Franko J

    I love the guy, but its time to move a “core” player, Kipper that is, say for a 1st round pick and a prospect. This team needs to move on from relying on the goalie to save the day. Let Irving/Karlson/Rammo, take the reins. Also if there is a suitor for Jbo, cut bait there, if Feater/King can make these 2 moves it frees up approx 12.6 mill, good shopping cash and something for the cupboards. Just saying.

  • BobB

    I’ve agreed with Kent for a couple of years that Iggy should be traded. I agree that this summer Kipper should be moved, cause if it’s not this summer it will be never.

    It’s the circle of life, if you will, trade assets for future assets.

    The logic Kent uses (sorry) is not reality,IMHO, but that’s fine… it doesn’t change the conclusion.

    1. “League average” is a red herring because you don’t play with league average goaltending, you play with your goaltending. League average is influenced on small sample size and large short term fluctuation.

    If we start saying .920evsv% large sample is average, then Fleury, Ward, Anderson, Crawford, Theodore and Pavelec are all career “worse-than-average” goalies. Good thing we don’t have any of them!

    2. The best manner of comparison is VS your own goalies.

    Our backups this year went: 336/370 = .908%

    The response to this is, that’s too small a sample. Fair enough, you’re right. This year Irv. and Karl have out performed Calgary career backups to Kipper so they are likely to regress further!

    All Kipper Backups have gone: 2251/2494 = .903%

    This year compared to .908 backups, Kipper has saved 33 goals, or about 5.5wins (11 pts)… we’re in 13th.

    Compared to career backups Kipper has saved 262 goals (over 8 seasons) about 32.75 per season. Remarkable how similar to this year!

    That’s what average goaltending would likely get you on the Flames!

    So what does it all mean?

    If we should trade Kipper, then we need to bring a goalie back in the deal, because we 1. don’t have Rammo yet, 2. Karlsson sucks, and 3. Irving isn’t ready.

    The UFA pool for goalies is weak this year, making it a good time to trade Kipper, but paradoxically a bad time to get a replacement that way, furthering the likelihood of a goalie for goalie trade.

    I have a hard time imagining we will get a goalie and significant assets going forward for one Kipper, especially in a “saturated goalie market”

    We should trade Kipper if it gives us assets and makes us potentially better in years to come. We shouldn’t trade him for the sake of trading.

    He saves us about 33 goals a year more than the next guy. We wouldn’t finish in last without him, but we’d be measurably worse.

    • xis10ce

      A well thought out and crafted description of the other side of the coin. However, keeping Kipper means abandoning the “Not winnin for McKinnon” campaign. Kipper must go or we’ll be picking in the 11-12 spot ……….again.

    • Though I agree with most of your argument I think Irving had a decent season. Outside of tje Boston game his numbers were very good. He didn’t get the wins but the team was outshot and outplayed each game by a significant margin.

      I am not saying give him the starting role next season. But he might earn it if Kipper isn’t t there. How many tenders surprised us this season? The signs are there he could be one of the surprises next season.

      • BobB

        Certainly Irving had a descent season, I totally agree.

        I’ve also said I agree we should trade Kiprusoff.

        However, it cannot be Irving and Karlsson. We didn’t have faith in Karl to relieve Kipper, we’re suddenly going to be happy with him as a partner to Irving? And Irving to go from 6 games to 60?

        Nope. So we need a goalie then, which throws a slight wrench in a Kipper trade. It’s much better to deal from strength than from weakness. If Boston wanted to trade Thomas, they still have Rask. If Van traded Luongo, they have Schneider.

        We trade Kipper, we have “no one”. All due respect to Irving’s cup of coffee.

        We should trade Kipper if it makes us better, same with Jarome. But that may not happen.

        If Washington gives up on Vokoun, a UFA, and we can sign him for 1.5mil as a split duty with Irving, then I’d be happy to trade Kipper. But, I don’t know if Feaster is a big Vokoun fan though (and that’s because he’s a moron.)

        If I was GM, a top priority would be trying to land Vokoun for 1.5-2mil while distracting TB, CHI, CLB and TOR with Kipper.

        • BobB

          There is no trade we can make that will make us better. None. Zero. Zilch. This team has no valuable assets that will make us better immediately. Any trade would be making us worse now, for hope in the future. Well actually, there is 1 trade we could do to make us better. Trade Baertschi for an asset that would temporarily make us better, but be a terribly stupid idea of course given Sven’s potential.

          Trade Iggy = potential return of pick/prospect
          Trade Kipper = potential return of roster player(s) or pick & prospect

          Either trade instantly makes the team worse. I highly advocate doing both trades, but have no illusions either will make us better now. They would start to reap benefits in 3 or 4 years, but we would undeniably be much much worse now.

          The purpose of trading Kipper would be to acknowledge the “we have no-one” factor and embrace what that brings. Tanking. And finally rebuilding this mess properly.

          • supra steve

            Agreed, we are not trading our aging stars to be better next year! If our thoughts are to the future, then the more we lose next year the happier I will be. Have Karlsson split games with Irving. If they play well, great. Might even consider shipping one of them for more futures if both look good.

            Irving MAY be the starter of the future, but he will need to prove himself over the next 2 years. Last time we traded an established star goaltender, his young replacement was Trevor Kidd. Let’s hope this time goes more smoothly, but either way we have to cash in on Kipper’s value SOON.

        • supra steve

          Agreed. But the Flames are going to have to have some fortune to be competitive. We took a risk on San Joses 3 string goalie and that got ua us out of the dumos.

          Irving was drafted with Bernier and Schneider and was ranked higher then either. The goalie guild has him as a top goalie prospect. He is 24 and been steong to date. Nothing wronguyen with the Flamea rolling the dice on him.

          But I agree that he shouldn’t be paired with Karlsson. Rather a Biron caliber 1B vet that can can take 35 games or so.

  • Brent G.

    Kent,

    Do you share Robert “Deathstar to Hope” Vollman’s dire prediction that the Flames’ prior history might suggest they will sign Jokinen to a ~5 year $3 million+ deal?

    I am personally more hopeful that this is not the case but you can rarely lose underestimating Flames management.

    Also, I haven’t seen it mentioned on this site yet today, but Keenan pretty much said on Fan 960 that Darryl told him that the ownership (Edwards and King) told Darryl to fire Keenan.

    I always thought this was a bad and unfair move, that only makes it worse.

    • Brent G.

      Do not underestimate the amount of influence that the team’s president and ownership has on this organization. While Darryl was given free reign over most items…there were a lot of whispers that ownership wanted Keenan gone. Tanguay left because he didn’t like how Keenan wanted the offense to work and ownership was less than thrilled that he wanted nothing to do with in-fighting that was happening in the dressing room. And don’t forget he benched Kipper during the play-offs. You don’t alienate one of your most marketable stars and risk the chance of them wanting out (see Tanguay). Add it all up and you have Ken King telling Darryl to send Mike packing.

  • Brent G.

    Reliance on stats is misleading and a slippery slope (I seem to recall stats being used earlier this year to justify the ludicrous notion that the Fames trade for Scott Gomez). For anyone watching games this year, Kipper was a difference maker in many games. I remember the years between Mike Vernon and Kipper and our lack of a top goalie was crippling. The team needs to make many changes, trading Kipper is not one of them.

  • Brent G.

    @ Kent

    I do see some problems in weighting goaltending to league average. The chances of replacing a goaltender with an ‘average’ goalie is probably slim. Instead perhaps we could look at Kipper against a ‘replacement level goalie’ (I would imagine that SV% would be roughly .910?)

    As well, it seems pretty silly to take the defence out of the equation when weighting a goalie. I mean – there is no way the Blues have the 2 best goalies in the league this year. I’d also be willing to bet Brian Elliot (who’s last season over 0.910 was in Binghamton) wouldn’t be putting up 0.950 at even strength on the Flames this season.

    Honestly, instead of trading Kipper for futures, if we really are serious about trying to be a playoff team next year, I’d be looking at using Kipper to acquire a top 4 dman and/or a center that can play well defensively and make whoever our next goalie is seem ‘above average’.

  • Vintage Flame

    Not that I have anything against Jokinen, because given how this team played this year, I think at least some players deserve some credit, but I’m really hoping that he is not re-signed by the Flames. It doesn’t have anything to do with his end-of-the-season disappearing act either; let’s face it, even if he hadn’t everyone else had, so there is enough blame to go around for everyone… Especially if it’s true that joker was playing with a suspected injury [groin is the thought I believe?]

    Logic would dictate that at 34 he is going to want a long term contract, and for me that is the only determining factor. This team can’t lock themselves into another 4 or 5 year contract, regardless of what the cap hit would be; not for a 34 year old 2nd to 3rd line center.

    As for Kipper, I must admit that I have come around full circle… a few times actually, on why the Flames could and should progress without Miikka. Seeing Kent put it all down in black and white has really taken the grey out of my bias towards Kiprusoff and at 35, going on 36, it just seems stupid and completely counter-productive for the Flames not to deal him at the draft or on July 1st at the latest.

    I’m a big fan of both players, and I’ll even throw in Iginla to boot, but I’m a Flames fan first and foremost, time to pick ourselves up boys and move on.

    • ChinookArchYYC

      Amen brother.

      If you want to see what the future holds for a team that does not use its assets properly, and waits for players to become too old and untradeable look at Edmonton circa 2009/10. The current narrative in Shelbyville suggests they are smartly building from the draft, because that is the only way to make a champion. In reality, Kevin Lowe traded away the future and over compensated his group of players with money and term, that made/make them un-moveable. The truth is that Edmonton was left with No alternative, but to build from the draft.

      Calgary is not there yet, but we’re close.

    • xis10ce

      The way I see it, there’s value in signing Joker to something like 2yrs at 2.5mil or 3, but there’s no way that’s going to happen.

      Him and his agent will use Grabovski and Hemsky as comparables. I legitimately think that he’ll think he DESERVES 4-4.5mil for 4-5yrs. And he’ll want the NMC to boot just because of his age. I find this F’in Ludicrous.

      Someone needs to slap Olli upside the head and point out some hard truths:
      1) Baring the planets alligning, he will not match this seasons scoring numbers ever again; even his best production years where with Florida playing in the South Easy Division, damn near like playing 80’s hockey.
      2) Using those two players as comparables is garbage because:
      a) Olli is 34 and on the decline and they are both 28yrs old and moving into their prime
      b) Neither has a NMC thus upping their salary value

  • Brent G.

    Even though we all seem to agree what SHOULD happen, dont kid yourselves people, it will never happen. I’ve already checked out for next season because I already know exactly how this off season will go and my apathy is growing extremely fast. I used to be a guy who would plan his schedule around games to make sure I wouldnt miss them 2 years ago, now its boring and a waste of time and I maybe watched 10 whole games all year.

    Here is exactly how I predict this off season going; anything different would be a pleasant surprise but have little to no faith in Feaster or the Flames anymore.

    1) There is 0% chance Kipper, Iggy, JayBo will get traded. They are still trying to sell this core and will until they retire. Feaster is too scared to make a move of consequence.
    2)Jokinen will get resigned to a long contract with a cap hit around 3 mill$$. I like Vollmans 5 year $3mill per, that sounds about right. The contract INSTANTLY will look stupid.
    3) Pretty much every FA will get resigned with the exception of Comeau. Ironically he’s the one who should be at the top of the list of being resigned.
    4) The pressure on Sven is crippling as he will be the only noteable change on the roster next year. It will all fall on the shoulders of a 19 year old and likely be too much for him to handle. Everyone will claim the damn guy is overrated. I mean how can this 13th overall pick not make the team instantly a contender playing from the 4th line with Jackman and Stajan?
    5)we hear some stupid speech from Feaster about how this team will make the playoffs next year but circumstances held him back this year; injuries right? He will claim he tried to make moves but couldnt get it done when really we all know it’s all a lie. The moves were there but he was too busy trying to make a decision between the Big Mac meal or pizza hut lunch buffet. The management and coaching staff then begin the debate over whether the lunch buffets are even still open.
    6) They hire some stupid behind the scenes guy to be the savior of the team. It must be all of the tans and vitamin D helping these southern teams be better than us right? Some guy is put in charge to ensure they all spend their time in tanning salons; the team becomes full of douche bags but no real changes on ice happen. Not unlike the sleep doctor, team psychic, stats guy, etc.
    7) The Flames stumble out of the gates, get better, peak, fall off again, and then go on a hot streak getting everyones hopes up again. Then they decide they have playoffs in the bag and Iggy doesn’t want to play the last 10 games so why should anyone else? They finish 13th in the west next year. The average fan is stupid and cant comprehend a team without these players. I mean, if we are 11th with them, think of how bad we would be without them?
    8) Repeat…

  • xis10ce

    I would like to sign Jokinen at $2.5M but I dont think that would be accepted by him. However, because he and his family enjoy the city and dont want to move you can probably get him for less than the $5M/4 year that Francis keeps expounding. I would give Jokinen a two year deal and would either give him $3M per year with an 18 month NMC and a 10-15 team modified clause after that. Or I would give him $3.5M with no clauses that would restrict our ability to move him. Jokinen can still fill the second line center position, and I think he helps to make Glencross better so he is worth keeping. But he is not worth over paying for.

    Kiprusoff is in a unique position for the team because his name was mentioned as a potenial hart trophy canidate had the Flames made the playoffs. As well, there are at least three teams (Washington, Toronto, and Tampa Bay) that believe they would be in the playoffs easily if their goaltending had not let them down. I think that we can get a first round pick or a choice of three prospects from one of these teams.

    Goalscoring was down this year because our goals against improved. Last year goals against was up and so goals scored was up. The two measures for the Flames for the last handful of seasons seem to go in tandem. We are unable to play well in a season at both ends of the ice. The reason why we are a non playoff team.

  • xis10ce

    @xis

    you cant use Hemsky and Grabovski as accurate comparables, because they were wanting to leave their cities unless they got more than they were worth. The situation with Jokinen is that he wants to stay with the team and his family wants to stay in the city. He will take a hometown discount to stay.

    • xis10ce

      You can’t, but that won’t stop his agent from doing so and us overpaying. I couldn’t agree with you more, so lets hope hockey mgmt here in town thinks the same.

  • Graham

    The Flames looked weak in several area’s, but the most glaring was down the middle.

    Jokinen was the best of the bunch, and at this point is a passable #2. Backlund missed a huge opportunity to step up, and the other guys used at center looked like typical 3/ 4 talent.

    Back to Jokinen, the Flames really need a #1 guy. If you find a true #1, you likely do not resign Jokinen ($$). If you can’t find a #1, you have to take a look at Jokinen, but also who is going to play behind him?

    Jokinen and a strong Backlund works, Jokinen and a weak offensively challenged Backlund does not.

    The Flames may need to resign Jokinen plus another capable #2 guy, and round out with Backlund and Jones.

  • RedMan

    1) offer Jokinen 3M/yr for 3 years otherwise part ways
    2) Resign Stepniak for roughly same money
    3) Resign Jones
    4) Resign Backlund
    5)Offer Stepniak a 1.75M pay-cut two year contract to prove his worthiness or let him walk
    6) offer Sarich and Hannon 1M for 2 yrs each for depth and turn to youth

    7) Don’t qualify Comeou, let him UFA
    8) don’t sign Moss – declining, injury prone
    9) Don’t sign Kostopolous = age makes him replaceable by youth who bring same thing

    10) Trade Kipper for high first round pick in summer or trade deadline

    Trading Iggy not happening… So…

    11) Make Giordano the new captain for 12/13 to allow Iggy to slide into his new role as the sunset looms

  • Great. That nickname is going to stick now.

    As for Kipper, after a season like this he’s bound to get an offer worth Calgary’s while. If so, take it.

    They can use some combination of Leland Irving, Henrik Karlsson, Karri Ramo and/or possibly some other cheap goalie.

    Hopefully Calgary can find it’s own Mike Smith or Brian Elliott somewhere. Or at least try.

  • I don’t like SV%. It doesn’t tell a very accurate story. I would love to see a metric measuring against scoring chances. Or one measuring soft goals.

    Kipper was very good this season and given an accurate metric the data would show that.

    That said its time to trade Kipper. Value and age are two big reasons. Needing to give Irving more games is another. Kippers inconsistentcy over the past 5 seasons is another.

    Pair Irving with a free agent vet next season then see what Ramo has the following season. The post Kipper era is coming. Its just a matter on if we get a return or not.

  • As much as i am a fan of Kent Wilson and the his statistical approach to hockey analysis, i find it interesting he consistently depicts Jokinen as 34 years old when Jokinen actually is 33y 4 months old (date of birth 5th december 1978). Even if one dislikes a player, the least the casual reader expects from a respected journalist/blogger is to get ‘the relevant facts that remain unchanged’ right.

  • @Kent Wilson

    I think Joker’s hot streak earlier in the season had fans hoping he had turned some kind of corner. That somehow, this late in his career, Brent had gotten through to him, he’ re-invented his game and was now a better player. You wouldn’t want to sign him for more than 2 more years, but given his ‘new’ abilities and the roster, hey, not such a bad idea.

    The last 10 games haven’t made me sour on him becuase I think he quit on the team, but instead because it’s become apparent that he hasn’t turned any real corners, that his hot play was just a blip and that there is nothing more to expect from him than what we’ve already seen the last few seasons.

    In that sense, out with the old.

  • BobB

    1)Yeah sure, bring Joker back, but not for more than Tanguay or Glencross contracts!

    2)This makes me wonder if anything will be done with Stajan? Trade him, buy him out, barry him.. I think enough is enough!

    3)If Kipper will ever be traded, this summer at the draft would be the time to do it. I don’t think its a stretch to get the Leafs, Jets or the Lightning’s first picks… otherwise… keep him.

    4)A trade I would like to see this offseason is Jay Bo to Colorado for Statsny.. J Bo has never really played the role that we brought him in here to do, this might be a good change for Calgary to get the closest thing to a legit #1 Center.

    5)I Think Calgary should take a run at UFA Alex Semin.. another right wing sniper that could take some pressure off Iggy..

    • supra steve

      1) Agree, if he’s not greedy, resign Olli

      2) Stuck with Stajan, guy has 2 more years at $3.5mil cap hit ($2.5mil actual dollars). He’s not going anywhere.

      3) Agree, time to look at trading Kipper. Toronto’s #1 would be great, but probably a bit much to hope for a lotto pick in return for Kip. I think Chi. Wash. are more likely destinations, time will tell.

      4) My impression is that the Avs are trying to shed salary, would make trading JBo to them difficult.

      5) Semin…no way, no how.

      Have a great weekend.

  • supra steve

    I can’t understand why anyone would say the team is boring and needs to change and then would lock up $3M on Jokinen and say that would be OK. This team needs a change, we all agree – whether it’s a teardown or a slow reboot or whatever, it needs a change. I don’t know what Jokinen’s value is league-wide, but for the Flames it is less than $2M. They need different players, younger players (in that vein, Comeau, who I don’t really like, is more valuable to the Flames right now than Jokinen).

    I think Iggy and Kipper should seriously be shopped, but actually getting value for them may be difficult. Jokinen, on the other hand, is already a free agent – let him go!