FN Weekend Open Thread

 

 

We’ll continue with prospect and off-season coverage on Monday, but for the weekend consider this your brainstorming session. Opine on goalies, coaches, trade targets, draft targets, who the Flames should re-sign or not and potential depth charts heading into October.

If anyone has any suggestions for a post or series of posts this summer, please add them in the comment section as well.

I’ll get the ball rolling – If the Flames do indeed trade Jarome Iginla and allow David Moss, Lee Stempniak and Tom Kostopolous to walk, their RW depth will be severely depleted. Even only half of those potentials happen, Calgary will be in the market for a new RW’er or two.

Any suggestions?

  • RKD

    Here’s a question that’s likely been asked many times on this website and others, if we as fans can see it’s time for a re-tool, re-build, re-whatever, how can the owners not see it? If the media can see it’s time to re-shape, how does upper management not see it? I’ve read articles (are they called that anymore since this internet thing has caught on?) where off the record GM’s state that the Flames organization is headed for a steep cliff with no brake pads (all you here is the squealer, you know that sound when it’s time to change brake pads? I guess us as fans are the squealer!). Apparently this organization wants to ride this f’er out to the bottom!

  • 15w40

    This may be the summer of realization for the Flames and their management. All those years of the Oilers getting rejected by UFA’s and their wives may be moving down highway 2. Even a brinks truck of money wouldn’t get it done in Edmonton. UFA’s usually go to places to first of all – win, and second of all enjoy the lifestyle. They will get the money where ever they go. Exhibit A – Brad Richards. Grade A FA’s will not be coming to Alberta for the winning that’s for sure and they won’t be coming for the lifestyle that is afforded in South Beach, NYC, or Boston. The Flames are going to have strip it down to the frame and start over if they want to win it all. Drafting between 16th and 10th and filling the holes with 2nd rate FA’s doesn’t amount to much. Big market teams can sign big name guys and fill the holes with lower drafted guys and guys who took longer to develop. Teams in Canada have to overcome the fishbowls in all cities and for the Sens, Jets, Flames, and Oilers they will have to develop from within. I think if the Oilers get to the point where they are an elite team there will be some FA’s that will come to them but it won’t be the big fish I don’t think. Players like Shea Weber are a pipe dream no matter what. Jay Bowmeester I suppose was a big name but the big names are all relative to the FA class they come up with. Most guys coming to these markets will be guys with their best years behind them that get overpaid to come up here. Khabibulin is a great example of that.

  • RKD

    Heard that a dozen NHL executives that Iginla would net the Flames a first round pick, a top six forward, and a prospect. That’s what I’ve been saying all along, and with Kipper you get double. The Flames could set themselves up nicely in a few years with two first round picks, two prospects, and two roster players.

    Here’s the kicker: teams are reluctant to trade their assets mainly because of the CBA. If there is a lockout, Iggy could walk away without ever playing for the team he is traded to. Top team brass are demanding Iginla sign an extension to make sure he’s there for a few more years.

    Teams would take Iggy and Kipper, just wait for how much one team gives up for Nash.

    • DieHard

      Nash will be 28 at the start of next season, Iginla will be 36. Are you really thinking Iginla has 5 more years left? Would you give up your 1st, Baetshi and a top6 for Iggy? NO YOU WOULDN’T

      • RKD

        Iggy still has some 30 goal seasons left in him, I see your point from the other side. However, Iggy would be used additionally for his experience in the post season.

        • RexLibris

          He doesn’t have that much post-season experience. And his leadership in the 04 cup run didn’t seem to carry over into their other first round exits.

          I get what you are saying, and I understand the perspective. I wonder if those same GMs were talking about their first round pick, players and prospects or those on other teams. It can be really easy to offer hypotheticals with someone else’s money.

          I would love to see a breakdown of Iginla’s goals and their impact on the game. Anson Carter was a 20 to 25 goal scorer in Edmonton years ago, but they were all insurance and second-insurance goals. When the team was down 2-1 he was never the guy who would score. Daniel Alfredsson isn’t the highest-scoring player in the East, but his goals win the Senators more games, and playoff games, than many others with more points.

          • RKD

            Iggy has 49 points in 54 post-season appearances. The game totals may not be as high as other players his age, but to be nearly a point per game player in the playoffs is highly coveted. I can’t give you a breakdown of his goals, but I can tell you Iginla ranks third all time NHL history in game winners with 80, he trails only Jagr and Gretzky.

      • T&A4Flames

        Difference is we are not in a position to win a cup, thus the trade talk in the first place. Other teams are in that position and looking for that piece that could elevate them to the top. A lot of those teams have also built up a strong prospect pool and and can start moving some out for help now, in their window of opportunity. It’s all about winning championships and we have seen many examples of teams giving up a lot for a chance out now. Who would have thought Gaustad would bring back a 1st as a rental.

  • RexLibris

    On another note, I thought I’d take a look at every mock draft I could find to see the general grouping of players the Flames might be selecting from. Here are the players (as well as the number of times mentioned in a mock draft), their recent ranking and their scouting report from thecoutingreport.com, some pieces of which I have edited for length:

    Brendan Gaunce (3 times, centre, ranked 13th among NA skaters in March, 6’2″ 215lbs) –
    Gaunce is never going to be the type of player to wow you with dynamic offensive flair, but you can rest assured he brings more than enough to the table. As one of the top two-way forwards in the draft, Gaunce has developed into a player that a coach can feel confident in putting on the ice in any situation. His game is centered around his ability to do the little things and his intangibles, such as leadership, are qualities that separate him from others. His skating still needs to improve, but his game has a lot of parallels to Ryan O’Reilly at the same age.

    Radek Faksa (once, winger, ranked 7th overall for NA skaters in March, 6’3″ 202lbs) –
    Faksa has great size and does a pretty good job of utilizing it to his advantage. He’s shown to be an effective two-way player and has displayed improved consistency this year. Faksa lacks a wow factor to his game, but he projects to be a very solid mid 1st round pick at this point.

    Olli Maatta (once, defence, ranked 8th among NA skaters in March, 6’1″ 202lbs) –
    Maatta is a cerebral defenseman whose strength lies in his ability to play a simple and effective game. He’s got NHL size and is a very smooth skater and does a good job of making good decisions on the breakout and moving the puck with efficiency. He doesn’t play with very much physicality but Maatta is extremely polished for a 17-year-old and does a good job positioning himself to make plays on the puck and utilizing his long reach to his advantage. His offensive upside is questionable right now but Maatta has shown that he is capable of playing the point effectively on the powerplay. Maatta doesn’t project to be much of a game-breaker, but he looks like a solid mid-pairing defenseman who could have a long NHL career.

    Derrick Pouliot (once, defence, ranked 12th among NA skaters in March, 5’11” 185lbs *play for the Winterhawks so there is a connection here) –
    Derick Pouliot continues to develop into a top offensive defenseman in the WHL. A silky smooth skater, Pouliot has spent time on the talented team’s top powerplay unit for much of the season. While he is an above average passer, Pouliot is sometimes the victim of trying to do too much, and is susceptible to the occasional glaring mistake. The mid-sized defenseman certainly has the skillset to be a future powerplay quarterback at the next level, but at this point should to be considered a bit of a project by whichever team selects him on draft day.

    Cody Ceci (once, defence, ranked 6th overall for NA skaters in March, 6’2″ 207lbs) –
    As it stands, Ceci has to be considered one of the premier defensemen not only in the OHL, but the Canadian Hockey League as a whole. He plays a strong offensive game and has developed into an exceptional puck mover and one of the top powerplay players in the OHL.As an 18-year-old, Ceci is a little ahead in the development curve of some of the other defensemen in the draft, but his strong offensive upside makes him a quality pick in this range.

    Zemgus Girgensons (once, winger/centre, ranked 18th among NA skaters in March, 6’2″ 200lbs) –
    Girgensons plays a reliable two-way style of play and is a strong center in all 3 zones. He uses his size to his advantage and as his skating continues to improve, his offense should benefit as well.

    Teuvo Teravainen (once, winger, 5’11” 170lbs) –
    Teravainen torched the Jr. A league early this season and quickly earned a call-up to Jokerit’s senior team where he has been an admirable contributor. Teravainen is a very smart player who skates well and distributes the puck well on the attack. He’s a good skater with an explosive first step and good agility. Teravainen’s skill-set makes him a very valuable player on the powerplay as he is good in tight spaces and can be very dangerous when he has time and space. He is not overly big and doesn’t have a physical aspect to his game but Teravainen looks like a nice pick around this range for a team who can wait for him to develop.

    Anyway, I know the rankings seem to suggest that most of these kids will be gone by 14, but there are always prospects that fall (think Alexei Cherepanov) and European prospects supplant some North American ranked skaters in the draft order.

    Any preferences or thoughts?

  • RKD

    @RexLibris

    Don’t know why, but my quoting doesn’t work.

    Actually if you went RIGHT to the edge of the 2nd round pick compensation, it just might work. All depends if Schnieder wants to accept the offer sheet ofcourse. But the top end of a second round pick is 3.1 million, thats more(or close to) than about 1/4 to half the starting goalies in the NHL currently make. It’s also VERY VERY hard for Vancouver to match because then they would HAVE to carry 8.5 million in cap space for at least 1 year(He can’t be traded as per offer sheet rules) and no is taking the Roberto Loungo contract. It might take some enticing to get Montreal to give us back our second round pick, but whatever compensation we would get from Trading Kipper could be used to help get it back.

    • RexLibris

      So you’d have to trade Kiprusoff first to get the compensation needed to entice Montreal to send back the 2nd round pick to place an offer sheet on Schneider? That’s a lot of dominoes. If it worked then terrific.

      But here’s a thought: what would prevent a team like Tampa Bay or Columbus from making a better offer?

  • As far as UFAs, I’d go for David Jones. Solid 20-25 goal guy, generally looks pretty good on the 2nd or 3rd line. Plays RW.

    His old contract was $2.5M and I don’t think he’s necessarily in line for a raise of any sort. Drop that to around $1.5-2M for 3 years and call it good on him.

    David Clarkson is another RW we could try to pry from the Devils. Put up 30 goals this year (seems to be a bit of an aberration though, I peg him around 15 goals per year). More importantly, he put up the 30 goals with 138 PIMs. Plays tough, not afraid to drop the gloves, and can score. He’d be an upgrade on players like Nonstopolous and Jackman.

    Ship out Mats Stajan straight up for Clarkson. Throw in a 4th or 5th rounder.

  • Also, has anyone else seen some of the total BS goals that Kari Ramo has let in during his time in the KHL?

    I’m wary of ever letting him tend the Flames’ net, lest they get scored on multiple times a game by bouncing pucks from 200 feet away…

  • T&A4Flames

    I agree with a lot of what has been posted. I think Iggy gets traded for this year and hopefully resigns in the next couple of years.

    If that happens, I would throw a ton of money at Parise, yes, an over-payment because we need to keep this thing going and have something to attract more FAs. I would certainly try to sign at least 1 and probably 2 of Wideman, Carle and a couple of others that have been mentioned.

    Aside from Parise, there isn’t much else that I would consider any type of over payment. The only other forward I would really like would be Gaustad, as mentioned on here by a couple of people, because he can win face offs and play a hard game. For a VERY small term (no more than 2 years) and no over payment I would be ok with Semin or Kostytsin for the RW.

    St. Louis has a surplus of right handed shots, we would have a surplus of left shooters. Maybe we can help each other out. If Sven does come up and we move Iggy, I would explore a Tanguay trade. I would also consider GlenX.

    All that said, I would rather CGY sits on that cap space for the right deals than trying to force a bad fit. The end of next season leaves the possibility of several high profile UFAs. If we fall flat this year we may also get a chance at MacKinnon who is viewed as possibly the next Crosby. With some luck, we may be able to build it back quickly, Philly style.

  • T&A4Flames

    I know Iggy isn’t what he used to 4-8 years ago, but he still played against extremely high competition this season. This past season, the competition Jarome faced had a corsi rating of 1.287. Iggy, understandably, got wrecked at even strength. However, last season Jarome played against guys with a corsi rating of -0.301, and his own corsi rating was much better. Jarome can still be a VERY valuable piece to a contending team, but he must be given sheltered minutes. The dude is still and elite finisher, and, if presented with the right circumstances (softer competition, better linemates, more offensive zone starts) he could still flourish. However, there are 2 questions facing Flames fans these days regrading the Captain;

    A) Does he want to move? –> I believe, like most people, that the only way Jarome gets moved is if he asks the team to trade him. Ownership uses the guy as a marketing campaign because he’s the familiar, longstanding, popular figure, and he’s done so much for the city. He helps sell tickets, which makes the owners money. They would never ask him to move. The only way Jarome wants out is if he realizes that winning a Cup is the MOST important thing, and that he can’t achieve his dream in Calgary.

    B) What could you get in return for him? –> This is where things get a little tricky. Some people say that you could get a 1st round pick, a roster player, and a top prospect in return for Jarome. Others say that you would’nt get anything close to that. I fall somewhere in the middle myself. I believe that Jarome could fetch a 1st round pick and a roster player from a contending team. However, that 1st round pick would be quite late in the draft if it was an elite team’s original pick, and therefore it would be highly unlikely that you’d be bringing in a franchise player.

  • T&A4Flames

    I hate to throw this out there but I will. Of all the teams that may be interested in Iggy, I think Vancouver (I’m going to hell) may actually be the best fit for all involved. For Iggy, he’s still close to home and going to a definite contender. For the Canucks, they get a guy who can play physical and with dignity, he’s never been accused of being a diver. For CGY, I think we get back Schneider, allowing us to move Kipper. Thoughts? Would Iggy accept a trade there? Would we all still cheer for Iggy and (gulp) the Canucks?

    • Matty Franchise Jr

      I didn’t realize that being too good to practice with your teammates, and basically never playing any sort of team defence was dignified. My bad.

      Personally, I cheer for the Flames (although a little less every year) and not for any individual. When Iggy is no longer a Flame, I will no longer cheer for him.

  • AF

    I’ve been dabbling with the thought of trading Kiprusoff to Tampa Bay. They desperately need a #1 goalie and we clearly need to start building our team through the draft. I wouldn’t mind a tandem of Ramo and Irving.

  • RexLibris

    Kipper to tampa for a first pick and a prospect.
    We’ll trade Iggy to the rangers for a first pick plus dubynski (maybe not. Maybe just a first and a second)

    Trade 2 first picks to edmonton for their first overall plus we’ll have another first round pick.

    What are the chances of that? probably nil but who knows.

    I do think the rangers would be interested in Iggy. They wanted Nash really bad and Iggy would be cheaper than Nash. I could see Iggy being willing to go there too.

    We could get Erixson back… It’s funny that if he stayed with the flames there would have been a great chance that he would have played a lot this season because of injury’s but instead he didn’t play at all on the rangers. what a loser.

  • T&A4Flames

    Hey Rex! Forget the RFA on Schneider. If he was part of an Iggy deal to Van then thats different. You had mentioned Stewart for Iggy & I really do understand your arguments about being realistic about the return for Iggy but sometimes it can go the other way & I just dont see a bonadide 30-40 goal player being exchanged for a player that has fallen flat with a team. Stewart wasnt even dressed last night. Thats why I thought he could be part of a deal that St Louis wouldnt care letting him & his salary move on, we may be doing them a favour. With Rattie, I’m not asking for any 1st rounders here, so, the true impact to a team that is already there & about to be very serious contender for the next 3 years is replacing a player that has been a flop with a 30-40 goal trigger man. Really the cost, a top prospect. Is that too expensive for a player that takes your team from contender to favorite? I dont think so.

  • Matty Franchise Jr

    With regards to overvaluing Iggy, he scored 30+ for the last couple seasons with a mediocre team and not getting sheltered very much. If GMs realize that, they may think that he can be a 40+ guy for them if handled properly and with good line mates. Maybe EFrancis isn’t totally out to lunch when he says that Iggy might get a 1st, a prospect, and a top 6 in return.

    BTW, I absolutely loved Glenn Healy laying the smack down on EFrancis on live national TV yesterday!

  • BobB

    June: Trade:

    Iginla(35) at the draft for high pick + prospect centre. Subsequently Draft Centre Ice position if possible. Aggressively try to move Stajan and Babchuk for late picks (6th round, 7th round).

    July: UFA’s: DO NOT resign Jokinen(32), Moss(30), Kosto(32), Sarich(32), Hannan(32).

    Have a Full UFA replacement plan (even if it’s not implemented)

    IF a team MUST be built solely through UFA’s we re-sign:

    Lee Stempniak (29) – #3RW. (~2mil)

    We attempt to sign:
    Brad Boyes (29) – #1RW (~4mil),
    David Jones (27) – #2RW (~2.5mil),
    Chris Kelly (31) – #3C (2-years max @ ~2.5?),
    Jason Garrison (27) – #2D (~2.5mil)

    RFA’s:

    Resign Backlund (23), Irving (24), B. Jones (25). Do not qualify Comeau (26), try to sign for ~1.5mil.

    We then have a full roster, with our oldest skater being Tanguay (32) avg. age 27.1 or about 10th youngest in the league:

    1. GlenX(29), Cammy (30), Boyes(29),
    2. Tangs(32), Backs(23), D.Jones(27),
    3. Baerst(20), Kelly(31), Stemp(29),
    4. Comeau(26), B.Jones(25), Jacks(30),
    5. Bouma(22).
    D1. Jbo(29), Garri(27)
    D2. Gio(28), Butler(25)
    D3. Brodie(21), Smith(27)
    D4. Babs(27)?
    G. Kipper(36), Irving(24).

    Big fish: That roster leaves us between 10 and 11million in cap space (est.)

    We put in serious, but not stupid, offers for both Parise and Suter (hoping for 1), and if not… who cares?

    Goalie plan: Play Kipper 50 games max. Irving paced for 32. If Irving excels, learns from Kipper and Kipper is desired by another team… trade Kipper at deadline for picks. Ride Irving ’til season end.

  • Matty Franchise Jr

    Beeker: Totally share your sentiments. I just dont get why so many Flames posters really under value his return to maybe just a late round 1st pick. To some teams, yes, that is all he’s worth to their franchise at this point of time. To the right franchise, which would have to be one that is just on the cusp of being a contender, it could make them a favorite, same player, more value to their organization. That’s Feasters bloody job. Find those few teams, get Iggy onside to waive his NT & max out the value back to the Flames. I listen to Overtime & The Big Show, Patty real doesnt think the value is too high for Iggy, it’s funny, he thinks Feaster needs to explore trading him but doesnt think the return will be any good but wont come out & say because his value sucks we should just keep him. I think the right team will suprise many what they would be willing to pay for him. JMO anyway.

  • redricardo

    @ Rain Dogs

    Best comment I’ve seen on this thread. You offered suggestions, said things like “Try to move Iggy, Stajan etc” as opposed to playing the NHL 13 game “Move Iggy to Washington for Alzner and a 1st rounder… My xbox says that will happen…”
    Put in attempts, and back up plans, very well thought out, and you made a lot of sense.

    The problem with a lot of the suggestions we’re seeing on here is that the other team needs to agree. Some people are overvaluing what we could get. Some are undervaluing. It needs to be a fit on both sides, and that is a very fluid situation depending on the team and situation. If a contender wants to win next year, and they strike out on Nash, does that raise Iggy’s value? Will Iggy even agree to a trade, or are we looking at a Mats Sundin leaving TO situation?

    Anyways, props to Rain Dog for offering a well thought out plan. Good job!!

  • Reg Dunlop

    I might get shot down for this… but only a suggestion..

    If Feaster decides not to move Iggy, Why not package Stajan and our first round pick to Colorado for Statsny?

    Resign all RFA’s… except Comeau has to take a pay cut..

    Only resign UFA’s… TK, Hannan, Joker (if the price is right), and Stempniak

    There will be lots of UFA defenceman this year… Wideman, Carle…

    I would make a case for Alex Semin if the price is right.. for depth on RW.

  • T&A4Flames

    @ Backburner

    Given our position in this draft, I would consider this. The only caveat I would like is that one way or another, we have to aquire a 2nd round pick in the deal. I don’t think it would be wise to not have a 1st and 2nd in any draft for the next 5 years. Maybe the fact that we are taking back a lot more salary on a player who’s #’s have taken a hit over the last couple of years would be enough for COL to include a 2nd in the deal. If not, maybe we have to add a depth player like Comeau to make it happen.

    I would still wait until our turn for the podium comes up though before we complete the deal. There seems to be a lot of different opinions as to who will be available at what picks. I would hate to trade our pick only to find out that by some miracle, a player like Galchenyuk is still available.

  • T&A4Flames

    This may be the summer of realization for the Flames and their management. All those years of the Oilers getting rejected by UFA’s and their wives may be moving down highway 2. Even a brinks truck of money wouldn’t get it done in Edmonton. UFA’s usually go to places to first of all – win, and second of all enjoy the lifestyle. They will get the money where ever they go. Exhibit A – Brad Richards. Grade A FA’s will not be coming to Alberta for the winning that’s for sure and they won’t be coming for the lifestyle that is afforded in South Beach, NYC, or Boston. The Flames are going to have strip it down to the frame and start over if they want to win it all. Drafting between 16th and 10th and filling the holes with 2nd rate FA’s doesn’t amount to much. Big market teams can sign big name guys and fill the holes with lower drafted guys and guys who took longer to develop. Teams in Canada have to overcome the fishbowls in all cities and for the Sens, Jets, Flames, and Oilers they will have to develop from within. I think if the Oilers get to the point where they are an elite team there will be some FA’s that will come to them but it won’t be the big fish I don’t think. Players like Shea Weber are a pipe dream no matter what. Jay Bowmeester I suppose was a big name but the big names are all relative to the FA class they come up with. Most guys coming to these markets will be guys with their best years behind them that get overpaid to come up here. Khabibulin is a great example of that.

    Brilliant… well written and absolutely correct

  • Some good questions and discussions in this thread folks. It will take me awhile to make it through everything, but it’s given me some stuff to write about.

    Or maybe I’ll just post open threads every few days and take a bit of a vacation 😉