Flames Picks Round 5-7

 

 

Ryan Culkin, D – 124th overall

Culkin is a defender from the Quebec Ramparts of QMJHL. He’s the third defenseman picked by the Flames in this draft, making Jankowski the only forward chosen in the top-125 by Calgary. Culkin is a 6’1", 175 pound blueliner who scored 6 goals and 25 points in 60 games. Like many other Flames picks in this draft, he’s described as a player with good hockey sense. Boucher scouting has an in-depth one game scout report and even summary on Culkin here.

 Coda Gordon, LW – 165 overall

Flames go back to their WHL roots with the Gordon pick. A winger with the Swift Current Broncos, Gordon scored 30 goals and 53 points in 66 games, good for second on the team. He’s described as a forward who has a great shot and good physical play, but below average skating.

Matthew Deblouw, C – 186 overall

The Flames rounded things out with a 6′, 185 pound center out of the UHSL, Deblouw put up 11 goals and 34 points for Muskegan. He was the 51st ranked NA skater by Central scouting at the end of the year.

Thus concludes the Flames 2012 entry draft. Calgary went heavy on defenders and players from Quebec and United States leagues/development systems, which is a big departure from previous habits under the former regime. Jankowski was the Flames lone high reward type choice in this draft, while the rest of the choices were defensible, but far more middle of the road.

It’s apparent the Flames think there is some value in scouting Quebec and relatively minor feeder leagues like the USHL right now. We’ll see if their intuition proves correct. 



  • RKD

    Just read the Toronto Maple Leafs trade Luke Schenn to the Philadelphia Flyers for James Van Reimsdyk.

    I would say the Leafs win this trade, I’ve watched Schenn a lot on HNIC and he’s worse than Chris Butler!

    I guess this means Philly is out of the Jay-Bo sweepstakes, teams want Jay-Bo and his 30 minutes but not at that cap hit.

  • Kevin R

    The only ones that think Flames did great at the draft are the Flames management. I guess what else can they say, we screwed up. I wonder where Jankowski fit on the list, I think 3-4 players became available to us that there is no way Flames had to have considered ranked behind Jankowski. There is not intellectual honesty happening here. Knowing(maybe not saying it but knowing it) this team needs to rebuild, why didnt Feaster go after another 1st rounder, knowing his main guy will be available in the early to mid 20’s?

    This draft just telegraphed the thinking of this new regime, same ole #@&%, different pile & a little different texture. A direction of mediocrity is where we are headed for the 2012-13 season. Oh goody, we get to read the same frustrated posts for another year. Maybe I’ll pull a Thomas & take next year off of Hockey. Maybe we’ll get lucky & there will be a lockout next year.

    • BurningSensation

      Well I think what Feaster did was awesome, and I’m still waiting for my invitation to join Flames mgt.

      This is CLEARLY a new direction for the team. No more lumbering coke-machines who can’t finish, but instead a focus on landing prospects with high ceilings.

      If you uave to take some time away from complaining about the Flames, I’m ok with that.

  • Colin.S

    @Rex, not “a lot” just 2 or even 3 guys have to go right for this draft class to be a sucess, if you can have a success rate of 30% or better on your picks that make it to the NHL thats not bad at all. Jankowski has great potential, we’ll see if its NHL potential. The second rounder I think is an easy bet to make the NHL, even if just a 3rd pairing guy, but he has the entire tool chest to make it work.

    There are a lot of guys that have potential at this point in the year and teams are always “winners”. I bet Chicago felt like a winner getting Cam Baker at #3 in 2004, but look where he is now ;P.

    I agree with everyone in this post, Montreal and Buffalo are the obvious winners of this draft today, however lets wait 5-6 years to see what a re-drafting would be like.

  • supra steve

    SOV

    Agreed. Have you noticed he has quite clearly hung the Jankowski pick almost entirely on Weisbroad (and to a lesser extent on Button). Mentioned that this was JW’s pick about 100 times in various interviews. Hopefully this means that JW gets a whole lot of credit for such a shrewd pick (and not fired) in about 3-4 years time. I’m cautiously optimistic.

  • RexLibris

    @Colin S.

    I meant that each prospect sounds like they will have to have more than a few breaks go their way, not that the Flames only need one or two to produce.

    Jankowski will have to capitalize on his recent production and continue to develop. He will also have to make the jump to tougher competition. He’s younger than most in his draft class which means he may have an as-yet unrealized ceiling, but it was a very risky move, and arguably a poor bet for a team that just needs to bring in talent, not try to outsmart every other GM.

    Guys like Barker and Stefan are those anomalies that are often recited like stories of the bogeyman to out fear in the hearts of fans. There were more than a few scouts who, and I’m not just talking in 20/20 hindsight, thought that Barker had all the tools but none of the heart and drive.

    And some teams just make really stupid decisions.

    Hindsight allows us all to seem like genuises, but I think even the most optimistic Flames fan would say that Feaster and Weisbrod reached down to take Jankowski.

    • BurningSensation

      @Rex Libris:”…but it was a very risky move, and arguably a poor bet for a team that just needs to bring in talent, not try to outsmart every other GM.”

      Risky? How so? He covered his bet by land g a 2nd pick for his scouting staff a that alone lowers the risk.

      Yes his job is to bring in talent, and he did so. He could have taken Brendan Gaunce, a big, hardworking pivot with 3rd line upside. Sutter would have lived him. Instead they dropped down and selected a guy with much, much higher skill level, a guy his own scouts loved, and he got an extra pick to do it.

      That isn’t ‘risky’, that’s prudent risk mgt.

      Did they go ‘off the board’? Sure. But I will bet they had good intel Jankowski wasn’t going to be there in the late 2nd (or even get out of the 1st).

      Was Hampus Lindholm s ‘reach’? More than Jankowski is IMO, and Anaheim didn’t finesse an extra pick out of their choice.

  • RexLibris

    @everton fc

    Fine, if you want to make this easy… 😉

    Yeah, that Montreal middle could be some kind of fun. (you meant Galchenyuk, I believe, but I get where you are going there)

    Yeah, I have noticed a glaring lack of anything about the Flames at the draft. Partially this is because of Toronto’s trades, but I think to some extent the national press is holding off (if you can’t say something nice…)

    re: Jankowski – It says a lot that Oiler fans reacted to the trade down with a shudder and the ghost of M.A. Pouliot dancing in their heads. Maybe not, not all history is reruns, but were I a Flames fan I would be very, very upset about the drafting and, by extension, overall management of my team.

    And Feaster hired Weisbrod. GMs let their scouts run the draft, for the most part, but very few are totally hands off. This screams Feaster, it is just that Weisbrod and Feaster think so much alike that I think it was Weisbrod’s pick, and Feaster would have done the same.

    Yeah, I really don’t know what the Capitals are doing anymore. They give up Eakin and replace him with Wilson? You have character issues and are losing a troublesome player in Semin so you replace him with Ribeiro? I’m not sure what they were drinking at that table. Ribeiro is talented, but he’s not a favourable character to have in the dressing room and even the refs are tuned out to him. Bad move.

    That Canes final was decent. Seeing Weight win a Cup, even if he was a HS, was rewarding. Good man, good player. The Oilers ownership was out to lunch thinking they didn’t have to rebuild after half the team vacated in free agency and trades.

    As a heads up, out of touch ownership will feature prominently when I write about the Oilers’ and Flames’ rebuilds.

  • RexLibris

    it certainly seems like they’re going to be patient with Jankowski. Next year he goes to the USHL, which has made strides in recent years to becoming a league almost as good as the CHL (with, actually, more defensive coverage). The year after that, he goes to NCAA, which is a great league. Older, bigger, more skilled players at each step.

    slowly but surely… I really hope this kid pans out, and not just because I’m a Flames fan (though that is an important factor, obviously).

  • Colin.S

    @Rex, but why should we be upset by the drafting, time will tell, but right now I’m very happy with the drafting, it’s about 10 spots to high, he was ranked in the 40-45 range and had we got him at 30 something not many people who have thought we over reached, however a lot of teams want to make sure they have their guy. I mean the Lightning taking KoekKoek at 10 is almost as big or bigger reach than the Flames taking Jankowski at 21 ranther than 40. Then theres the Oilers taking a guy that could probably be had in the third round or even later that they took at 31 that was more than just reaching, thats cutting off you other arm raching.

    The Flames reached, however if you have “your guy” and you can’t find another partner to trade down or you think that waiting till your next pick the guy will be gone, you take your guy. The flames could have taken Girgensons and he could have been a nice 2nd maybe 3rd line center if he lives up to his potential, or take Teravainen and who knows he could have pulled an Erixon on us. Doesn’t matter some times who you take, it sometimes just doesn’t work. However with this guy the reward for taking the risk, is you may end up with a guy who tops out at 6’4″/6’5″ and 200 pounds or so, who has all world, top line center skill, he may not make it to the NHL till he is 22 or 23, but if the Flames really did their job and he lives up to the potential they see, they may have found that #1 center, to bad Iggy will be retired by then.

    • Emir

      Im in that boat too, good post Colin.

      I’m not going to sit here and say we did amazing. Im not going to say we did bad. This draft is one we will wait and see and go from there. No drafts are sure things good or bad.

      I think as flames fans we are becoming very scared of anything that doesn’t fit the norm. If our team doesn’t do it the way Pierre McGuire or Doug Maclean says to do it we get scared. Well newsflash. If these guys were that good in the league, they would work in the NHL not trying to break a story.

      We have all say back and demanded change all season long. Here it is. We may not like it, but we got change.

      Oh and BTW, anybody who doesnt like it that Feaster isnt so involved should think about it. We all know he can’t judge hockey talent effectively, at least he knows it as well. Only thing I hate is he says things like “looking back on this draft 10 years from now we have the best player in Jankowski.” Feasters guarantee is worthless based off of his previous garauntees. Thats the only thing about this pick I hate.

  • RexLibris

    The one thing I would like to know who was actually the real target for the Flames in round 1 ? Obviously Jankowski must have been # 2 or # 3 choice on their draft board. I know it is impossible to find out, but I would like to see Calgary’s pick list and see how close they actually came to their original selections. I think that would be most intriguing indeed.

  • BurningSensation

    @Emir:”” Feasters guarantee is worthless based off of his previous garauntees. Thats the only thing about this pick I hate.”

    Totally agree. I like the process, the strategy and the actual picks. I HATE the PR job.

  • The Flames are very, very confident in their scouting and their player development right now.

    Their goal was to get players that they could teach. But I think they value hockey sense above all else because you can’t teach it.

    As for the draft as a whole, I really like the picks that got the Flames Coda Gordon and Brett Kulak. Jon Gillies is a Big Tall Goalie, but he’ll develop. He’s got four years potentially in a very good conference in the NCAA. He’ll see a LOT of John Gaudreau and Bill Arnold next year.

  • BurningSensation

    @Franko J;”The one thing I would like to know who was actually the real target for the Flames in round 1 ?”

    Me too. My suspicion is they would have creamed themselves to get Grigerenko, but there is no way to know. It’s a deeply weird draft year with the volume of defensemen taken, not to mention the number of risers/sliders.

  • Colin.S

    @Franko J

    @BurningSensation

    Jankowski was their guy, he was #1, I think other than Yakupov, he was the only guy whose jersey had a sewn on name plate(most others use velcro cause their guy might be taken). If you come with an already made jersey for the kid and not a generic with a velcro’d name plate, that kid was their #1 choice, because they had guys like Ceci, Teravainen and Girgensens that were available at 14 and those guys could have all gone top 10.

  • Truculence

    Where the hell did all this hype for Girgensons come from???? Man, I guess in a weak draft some people will talk up third line grinders. A lot of scouts have questioned his ability to put up offense at the NHL level. And remember folks, he plays in the USHL, a gentlemans’ league if there ever was one. A tough, gritty guy in that league is an average Joe in the CHL. Yes, there is a very, very small chance he may turn into Ryan Getzlaf, but more likely he will just be a third-line center, albeit a good one.

    We already got a guy like him in Arnold and a better player, imo, in Reinhart. We need to take risks on top line talent, not bottom six forwards, who may play on the second line if everything goes well.

    (I am a bit upset over Teravainen. Kid sounds like another Baertshi)

  • Franko J

    @ I’m just Saying

    Sorry I offended you with my opinion. I find this to be great forum with excellent dialogue and feedback from fellow fans of the Flames. That all I was looking for. As a fan my passion to see this team succeed runs deeper than most. So if I came across negative I apologize. Sorry but I’ve been through it all with this team I really don’t care to cheer for any other team but the one with the flaming C.

    Hey all I was asking was Jankowski their #1 choice? Where did you hear that his name was sewn on the jersey? I missed that point. As well, I had on my mock draft in the 7th round Ryan Culkin only with curiosity it would like to see how close my picks were with the Flames scouting staff. I thought Pouliot might have been their 1st choice and when the Penquins made the move at 8 that is when I thought Calgary might be trading down. I didn’t see Jankowski as a pick, even with all the rumblings and the rumors which started earlier in the week. I really thought it was going to be Gaunce. When it wasn’t I was quite relieved.

    • I'm Just Sayin'

      It was shown on Flames TV and also on Fan960, Boomer mentioned it. Weisbrod is a smart guy (Harvard grad) and so is Feaster (Law Degree}. If people would look beyond his appearance and listen to what he says, he is putting people in place to make the process more science than luck. The problem with other drafts is, we have not got lucky like some other teams (Detroit) and had star players come out of the woodwork. Look at Detroit’s first round draft record and it is not a glowing endorsement for their scouting department either.

      • For the most part, Calgary for some reason struggles with their # 1 pick becoming an impact player on the team. I find they do better drafting players from rounds 3 – 6. Maybe because of the expectations aren’t as high and they are given the time to develop.

        Listening to the FAN 960 yesterday and hearing the draft analysis from Wiesbrod and Button it was interesting to know that they have a plan in place and a mandate in mind to follow. With a previous blog I initially thought there was a power struggle between Wiesbrod and Button, after hearing them yesterday I couldn’t be more wrong.

        Drafting players is the first step in the process. The key is how you develop them. Returning back to a point you made about Detroit, why do the picks they make look so good when they make the team – they understand that drafting a player is only 10% of the process and 90% is development.

        Whether it is Jankowski @ pick 21 or Deblouw in the 7th round, they all develop at a different pace and it is up to player development now to give them the proper tools to succeed.

        For example, Ryan Howse was struggling with his overall fitness and what did the Flames management do, hire a nutritionist and fitness coach exclusively for the Heat. By the end of the season and prior to his injury he was making strides. I don’t if he will or won’t make the big club come next season, but what I do like when I heard this story is that the Flames are placing an emphasis on development. Akeem Aliu is another example.

        • BurningSensation

          “For the most part, Calgary for some reason struggles with their # 1 pick becoming an impact player on the team. I find they do better drafting players from rounds 3 – 6. Maybe because of the expectations aren’t as high and they are given the time to develop.”

          Certainly true for the previous two GM regimes, as the only pick we really hit extra bases with in the last 10 years was Phaneuf (in an absolutely LOADED draft – where we should have taken Getzlaf).

          I don’t think its an accident that Feaster’s first real draft saw us land an impact player.

  • Kevin R

    Burning Sensation: Know what, its my right to not like whats going on just as much as your right to drink the cool-aid. If you read my post, my annoyance isnt about the picks that were made, its about the coke machines who dont finish as per your words, that are still there that maybe we could have gotten a few quarters back. Ceci & Teravanian were plums that fell to us & we should have scooped one of them & gave up one of the coke machines to get go after Jankowski. Had we done that, you would see a lot more happy campers posting on this site.

    • Truculence

      And what makes you so confident that both of the players you mention are destined for greatness? You read a few scouting reports on the internet; watched a couple of mock drafts like the rest of us. There must have been pressing issues with both that they went in the middle of the first round, as oppossed to being selected in the top ten.

      Neither guy is a lock to be an NHLer. The fact they fell to the middle of the round in a pretty weak draft says it all. In fact, given the history of the NHL draft, the percentages are working against both in terms of their chances of making it to the big show at all, let alone as stars. Few outside the top ten are a lock traditionally, and that applies to Jankowski, as well. I can respect the fact that multiple scouts from the org. chose him after their viewings rather than taking their cues from media types or fans like us who follow the latter.

      In my book, all of them have great upside, but whether it is realized will be revealed in the next few years. So lets sit back, relax, and see how this thing plays out before getting a lynching party together. Or at the very least tell me how you definitively know that the aforementioned will be NHL stars, as the scouting staff of the top ten drafting teams surely didn`t and history shows that the bulk of superstars usually come from the first 5-10 picks.

  • Good discussion folks. I figured thing would get a little heated because the Flames made some controversial moves this weekend. There’s going to be disagreement and debate about this draft for awhile I imagine.

    Feel free to continue the debate, but let’s make sure things don’t get too personal.

  • everton fc

    Teravanein,s name on the board at 14 seemed a gift.The Flames chose to not accept that gift,so the comparisons Teravanien for Jankowski/Sielloff will be made for years to come.Hope they got it right,as it,s a huge gamble

  • For anyone in favour of a rebuild this draft should be a shinning become of hope to them. Pretty well all except for the two WHL defenders are probably all 4-5 years away from even playing the NHL.

    With the Flames pretty well not going to be very good for the foreseable future, we may get some more high draft picks in the coming years, add that to Jankowski and Sieloff who may take 4 years, but may be top end guys, and in 4-5 years you may have a great young nucleous and emerge from a 3-4 year rebuild vs taking 5-7 or more years.

    There is a lot to not like, but there is also a lot to like and a lot of intrigue in this years draft. Last year got us a nice bunch of players from very few picks and even last year there were bitchers and complainers we took a small swiss kid over the big western Canadian kid Mark McNeil(drafted by Chicago oddly enough, like this year with Teravainen). That picked worked out fantastically and this Jankowski pick in 3-4 years may work out better than that. Course it could also end up like the hindenburg, sure, but the draft is a reason for optimism and for now, thats how I will remain.

  • RexLibris

    With regards to the Jankowski “reach”, the trading down and so on:

    I break down the Flames first round into three issues. The first is the trading down. I have no problems here really, as it is good asset management. Passing on some skilled players isn’t the best, but under the circumstances it was a good option.

    *as a quick aside I believe that Feaster was trying to move up when Grigorenko began to fall. Failing that he moved down.

    My real problem with the Flames first round comes in the circumstance I alluded to. Feaster needed to recoup a 2nd round pick. The same one he traded away. His poor asset management at last year’s draft (compounded by Regehr’s refusal to waive) was redeemed only partially by the improved management this June. That is a saw-off in my opinion.

    Next, I feel that Jankowski is a reach. More than Lindholm? Not by a country mile, but a reach nonetheless. Jankowksi would likely have been around in the 2nd round and the Flames, as I have said before, cannot afford to gamble with their first round picks. If the Flames had selected Maatta at #21 they would very likely have still been able to come out with Jankowski in round 2.

    If the draft is a mixture of quality and quantity then the Flames have put all of their 2012 eggs into one proverbial basket in Jankowski. Feaster’s comments on him being the best player of the draft ten years from now are, in my opinion, irresponsible and reminiscent of the “Vincent Lecavalier is the Michael Jordan of hockey” comments from two decades ago. They set unrealistc expectations and tranlate too easily as false bravado.

    As for the Oilers, they certainly did reach in taking Moroz. I had him pegged for the 3rd round. I’m not a fan of the pick. Not with Thrower, Frk, and others still available. That being said, it wasn’t a “cutting off one’s arm” length of reach. Moroz was predicted as a late-2nd early-3rd round pick by many sources.

    I like the Coda Gordon pick for the Flames. He is one I think fans should watch.

    Our rush to judge this draft only 24 hours after its completion though isn’t going to get us very far. I will say, though, that I believe this draft was underwhelming when compared to more recent years.

  • there’s also a good mix in this draft class. Not nationality wise, since they’re all NA players, but league wise. With Sieloff heading for Windsor, and Culkin playing for Quebec, the Flames now have prospects in all three CHL leagues. Add a couple WHL kids (Kulak and Gordon) and some guys headed for NCAA (Jankowski, Gillies, DeBlouw), this draft shows the Flames’ widening scouting scope.

    No Euros though… surprising. Would’ve liked Bystrom in round 2.

  • Rex you allude to Feaster poor management skills last year in the Regher trade.The second round pick in that deal was the result of the player taking his time in waving his NTF.What is it you think Feaster should have done to improve that situation.There was also a second dynamic in play here ,as Buffalo took Kotalik off the Flames roster

  • RexLibris

    @Atl

    Sorry in advance for this rant. It isn’t directed at you, but more so at the Flames management and some of their media apologists.

    I know that Regehr really put the boots to the Flames in delaying his decision and this resulted in the inclusion of a 2nd in order to find balance in the trade (Kotalik’s inclusion taken into account as well). But I honestly feel that Kotalik, a player with whom Buffalo had some familiarity, could have been dumped for far less than a 2nd round pick. It was a poor sweetener to that deal. Or Feaster might have downgraded the pick and instead taken fewer prospects in return. Would the Flames have been better off with that pick rather than Byron or Butler?

    I know that Kotalik’s contract was akin to the toxic mortgages in the market and that the Flames had to pay to make it go away, but if dealing that pick was looked upon so quickly in hindsight as a poor move, then why the eagerness to do so again for 2013?

    I’m not being critical here because I like picking on Feaster or the Flames. He isn’t an upper echelon GM, in my opinion, but there are certainly worse options around. And I don’t troll the Flames.

    My criticism comes from experience. I’ve seen this before and it was during an extended period of ownership-fueled idiocy. A team chasing it’s tail moving picks and assets around the chessboard without any clue as to their continually diminishing returns.

    If the Flames and Feaster have the patience to continue this pattern for the next five years that is perfectly within their rights. And I know that I may well be wrong about all of this, but as yet I have not seen a clear indication of a pattern of prioritizing one kind of asset above another in a way that indicates this management group has a clear grasp of their situation and the hurdles ahead.

    • BurningSensation

      “My criticism comes from experience. I’ve seen this before and it was during an extended period of ownership-fueled idiocy. A team chasing it’s tail moving picks and assets around the chessboard without any clue as to their continually diminishing returns.”

      I agree to a point. There was definitely a hangover between Sutter and Feaster that took a season to clear up (with Feaster’s reign really starting when Weisbrod and Chris Snow were hired).

      I think the Regehr deal worked out well for the Flames on two levels; Butler is cheaper and (IMO) played better than Regehr, and Kotalik + 2nd for Byron cleared out one of the worst contracts in franchise history and brought back a solid AHL vet who can lead the kiddie corps and sub in when injuries hit. The only downside for me in the deal wa.s the 2nd, and as mentioned that wasat least partly the fault of Regehr dragging his feet. So a good deal, with the downside being that we dealt away an asset in the pick our plan would normally be to keep.

      Since that deal we heard repeatedly from Feaster that he wanted to recoup the pick. So it wasn’t like the bad ole days where assets moved in and out without purpose, more like some housecleaning that had to be done before taking he car out for a spin.

      As it stands the majority of Feaster’s moves have made us younger, brought in talent from otherwise unsourced locales (the KHL), and trimmed our cap hits. I certainly think he’s got a plan in place, and with the exception of a few hiccups (Erixon), they look to be executing it.

  • RexLibris

    I,ve been trying hard to figure out this management and all it,s assistant management.A team chasing it,s tail may very well be what we,re witnessing here in Calgary.