FN Weekend Open Thread – Dev Camp Thoughts

 

 

It was the development camp scrimmage this morning and more than a few folks showed up to watch (my guess is between 500-100). Ryan Pike is busy gathering player interviews as the camp progresses, but for now this thread is share the thoughts and impressions of anyone who has taken in the action thus far.

Today was my first exposure to the kids and so my observations are limited. In a single contest like this a lot of guys kind of fade into the woodwork, especially because the area seating is concentrated on one end of the rink (making it hard to scout action at the other end). Still, here’s what I came away with.

– Mark Jankowski looks bigger. In fact, he appeared to be the second tallest player on the ice behind Kanzig. He’s also still very toolsy, but relatively low impact. Janko would appear in the thick of things now and then, but disappeared for long stretches as well. I had to specifically look for him in the latter half of the game in order to notice him on the ice.

– Turner Elson was one of the stand-outs this morning. Smallish, but a buzzsaw of activity, he also made a number of nice spin-type moves in the offensive zone and set-up one of team Black’s goals after a nice deke off the boards and out of the corner. Had another high-end chance after going wide and driving the net. A pleasant surprise.

– Another unexpectedly good performer was Trey Lewis, the undrafted captain of the Halifax Mooseheads. Lewis seemed to be a decently poised defender who wasn’t shy about communicating or jumping into the rush at times.

– Bill Arnold was also a stand-out at times. He was much more mobile that I remember or expected and seemed to make consistently strong plays with the puck.

– John Gaudreau played a lot with Sean Monahan for team red and they were usually the line that drove play into the offensive zone. Gaudreau is faster this year and he doesn’t look as freakishly undersized either.

Monahan was solid all over the ice. Despite being a younger guy he rarely panicked with the puck and was never victimized on a bad play or missed read. He also scored Red’s only goal.

– Pat Sieloff was a guy who seemed to struggle with frustration/keeping his emotions in check. His signature is playing with an edge, of course, but a guy with a short fuse can cause problems on the ice because it can lead to poor decisions and bad penalties.

– Michael Ferland had a rough go. Plays died on his stick more than once this morning and he seemed to have problems both with execution and decision making. 

– Sven Baertschi was one of the most dangerous guys on the ice for Black of course. He played mostly with Granlund and they combined for a goal and more than one high-end scoring chance. I didn’t notice Granlund as much, but a few others there were raving about him.

– Keegan Kanzig is big.

That’s about it from me. Share your own impressions in the comments. 

  • McRib

    I thought Sieloff was one of the most fun to watch, sure played edgy and snarky, cleared out his crease a few times and even pinched a few times. He was ready to go with Harrison I believe it was… would have liked to see that!

    • Jeff Lebowski

      Maybe Harrison too but I saw Ferland and Seiloff stare each other down. It makes me happy to see guys who can play also have that ability.

      I know I’m getting way too far ahead but the mix of players they have…

      I foresee guys like Gaudreau feeling his line/team mates have skill to make plays PLUS they will have his back if anyone even looks at him funny.

      If Ferland makes it, imagine a line with Gaudreau and Monahan/Jankowski/2014 1 st rounder???

      Skilled, young, fast and aggressive (I consider Gaudreau aggressive because he attacks with pure skill, plays with no fear just like I consider Seiloff aggressive because he loves to hit) players.

      If you listen to the Bill Arnold interview, he mentions how they had to rely on hockey sense in scrimmage (no tactical direction from coaches) It was looser so guys had to use creativity to make plays. They did and no one looked horrible or out of place doing that. Some guys were not noticeable from good plays but no one was noticeable for really bad plays. I’m sure guys messed up and some were clearly better. I think this was by design. What happens when you put a bunch of hockey IQ guys together? Some of them can also skate faster, have better hands, others can also fight.

      It’s exciting to see the next tests. Hopefully they all pass and make it.

  • McRib

    @McRib

    Ummm…on the webcast Kerr mentioned the concious decision to use the Joan Snyder arena because it is NHL sized ice for the Europeans to get used to it. He said the MacPhail is International sized ice and would not be appropriate for an NHL camp?

    I have to say I was pleasantly surprised by the availibility of the webcast. Kerr did a great job and I liked Connie, Steinberg and Torrie as sidekicks.

    • McRib

      Going to have to agree with others on this post, Torie Peterson was fantastic as a colour fill in!!! Wow, she always does a great job with the website articles so in that sense it was no surprise, but she was very well spoken. Kristin Hallett (outside of looks) is hard to stomach or awkward at times with prospects (did anyone watch the interview with Poirier and his family, lol). Wish they had Peterson interviewing more obscure people more often in situations like this with the new prospects, as she is much more knowledgable in that aspect. Kristin Hallett is a decent interviewer of current Calgary Flames players, but when all she has to talk to Bill Arnold about is solely his relationship with Johnny Gaudreau it gets old quick. It might be different if Bill Arnold was there because of Gaudreau, but he is a Top. 10 Prospect. If anyone isn’t signing with the Flames it would be him, because he was treated like a coat tail rider of Gaudreau’s for two years.

      When Hallett was interviewing both Gaudreau & Agostino she failed to bring up the NJ connection, which was a great written piece earlier this week that would have been interesting to dig a bit deeper first hand. Not to mention Agostino played for Delbarton School in NJ, which is becoming a hockey factory of sorts and leading a new generation of Hockey players from NY/NJ, who have become infatuated with the sport. No market in the USA is increasingly turning out NHLers than NJ.

  • Craig

    I watched the scrimmage from the live stream, missed some of the first.

    I liked Granlund I think he’s going to come in to main camp ready to play but ultimately still play in Finland for another year.

    Loved the connection between Monahan and Gaudreau, when they could get the puck out of their zone.

    on Kanzig I wasn’t really impressed, I think he stands out because he’s huge so he’s easy to notice every time he’s on the ice. Too early to tell if he’ll be any good, but it’s encouraging to hear about his work ethic.

    Love SVEN hope he really breaks out this year.

  • McRib

    So what about the lines at young stars? I really hope they find better linemates for Horak, but that likely isn’t possible. They’ll probably keep Baertschi – Granlund – Gordon, and they might put Klimchuk and Poirier with Monahan. That basically leaves Hanowski, Ferland, Elson, and Eddy to play with Knight and Horak.

    BTW McRib, it was Horak who was wearing #21.

      • McRib

        From the Matt Pfeffers twitter shortly after Domi/Horvat discussion…. “there wasn’t a single 67 who had better stats away from Monahan then with…. I was able to watch London four times during the season and every game during the Mem Cup on Sportnet and Domi was always far and away the better player for me, although can someone explain why in that chart Bo Hovat’s goals only add to 14 and he had 33??

        The defining moment of the draft had to have been when the camera zoomed in on Hunter Shinkaruk after the Flames selected he looked like a very sore looser everyone in his family had scowls on their faces. Then when Vancouver took him he specifically said that “no one in his family” was really a Flames fans they all cheered for other teams…. Well that looks good on the Canucks to have another very sore looser. From day one with Medicine Hat he got ridiculous ice even as a 16 year-old the kid has never faced a moment of adversity or paid his dues. He also has never led his team in scoring (Vey, Etem, Valk), despite the points he has put up would not surprise me if he is a bust. The Canucks are sure putting together a staggering amount under GIllies (Patrick White, Jordan Schroeder) even Nicklas Jensen & Brendan Gaunce do very little for me as well. They are two or three years away from being in an Edm/Cal rebuild situation with no prospects coming up the pipeline. I would rather be an Oilers fan at this point than a supporter of the Canucks, at least they have a future, Vancouver is a team that hit its apex two years ago. Kesler apparently wants out Luongo clearly wanted out, plus they recently welcomed confrontational Torts to the picture. Good luck.

        • RedMan

          “although can someone explain why in that chart Bo Hovat’s goals only add to 14 and he had 33”

          It must have only been counting even strength points. He had 17 (!!) powerplay goals on the season.

          Horvat always seemed like a reach to me, and it’s looking more and more like I was right. There was quite literally no reason to take him in the top 10. None.

          Quite astonishing.

          • Truculence

            I call bullshit on the Horvat-Domi WOWY if the intent is to believe that Domi is the better all-around player. The boys at BRoad Street Hockey had an interesting article up on prospect usage, and while it is reliant on proxies to calculate qaulity of competition, it is nevertheless illuminating.

            First off, it contends that Monhan faced some of the toughest minutes in the entire OHL. Secondly it shows that Domi faced significantly lower QOC than many of his teammates. While that article does not state exactly who these teammates are (six faced tougher forwards regularly, while five played as many or more minutes against the premier forwards of opposing teams), it is apparent that Domi was not consistently playing against the opposing teams`top lines.

            Based on evidence from other articles and scouting reports, Horvat was one of the players doing the heavy lifting. Thus it might be that Horvat scored more with Domi because he faced weaker comp with more O zone starts when paired with Domi, than when he was apart.

            Without advanced stats, we cannot be absolutely certain, but there is a very strong case that Horvat simply played some of the toughest minutes on his team. In that regard, many scouts peg him to be a player in the mould of Bergeron and Kesler.

            In other words, he doesn`t suck just because he was drafted by the Nucks and based on one WOWY without context.

            For more on the aforementioned article, follow this link: http://www.broadstreethockey.com/2013/6/26/4455830/draft-prospect-toi-quality-of-competition

          • Truculence

            I call bullshit on the Horvat-Domi WOWY if the intent is to believe that Domi is the better all-around player. The boys at BRoad Street Hockey had an interesting article up on prospect usage, and while it is reliant on proxies to calculate qaulity of competition, it is nevertheless illuminating.

            First off, it contends that Monhan faced some of the toughest minutes in the entire OHL. Secondly it shows that Domi faced significantly lower QOC than many of his teammates. While that article does not state exactly who these teammates are (six faced tougher forwards regularly, while five played as many or more minutes against the premier forwards of opposing teams), it is apparent that Domi was not consistently playing against the opposing teams`top lines.

            Based on evidence from other articles and scouting reports, Horvat was one of the players doing the heavy lifting. Thus it might be that Horvat scored more with Domi because he faced weaker comp with more O zone starts when paired with Domi, than when he was apart.

            Without advanced stats, we cannot be absolutely certain, but there is a very strong case that Horvat simply played some of the toughest minutes on his team. In that regard, many scouts peg him to be a player in the mould of Bergeron and Kesler.

            In other words, he doesn`t suck just because he was drafted by the Nucks and based on one WOWY without context.

            For more on the aforementioned article, follow this link: http://www.broadstreethockey.com/2013/6/26/4455830/draft-prospect-toi-quality-of-competition

          • Truculence

            I call bullshit on the Horvat-Domi WOWY if the intent is to believe that Domi is the better all-around player. The boys at BRoad Street Hockey had an interesting article up on prospect usage, and while it is reliant on proxies to calculate qaulity of competition, it is nevertheless illuminating.

            First off, it contends that Monhan faced some of the toughest minutes in the entire OHL. Secondly it shows that Domi faced significantly lower QOC than many of his teammates. While that article does not state exactly who these teammates are (six faced tougher forwards regularly, while five played as many or more minutes against the premier forwards of opposing teams), it is apparent that Domi was not consistently playing against the opposing teams`top lines.

            Based on evidence from other articles and scouting reports, Horvat was one of the players doing the heavy lifting. Thus it might be that Horvat scored more with Domi because he faced weaker comp with more O zone starts when paired with Domi, than when he was apart.

            Without advanced stats, we cannot be absolutely certain, but there is a very strong case that Horvat simply played some of the toughest minutes on his team. In that regard, many scouts peg him to be a player in the mould of Bergeron and Kesler.

            In other words, he doesn`t suc just because he was drafted by the Nucks and based on one WOWY without context.

            For more on the aforementioned article, follow this link: http://www.broadstreethockey.com/2013/6/26/4455830/draft-prospect-toi-quality-of-competition

  • I’ll just clarify a few things because there seems to be some confusion.

    @McRib – couldn’t use the 3,000 capacity arena because it’s currently been set up for International play (full size rink) The Women’s national summer camp is fast approaching in the next week or 2. The Flames wanted the prospects especially those from Europe to experience the smaller ice surface and be able to understand the angles on such.

    Horak has indeed switched to number 21 -the number his father wore as a professional. So those who thought Horak stood out when watching whatever number you thought he was wearing probably might want to check the player that it actually was.

    And so that means that those who thought 21 was not Max Power was not. Max Reinhart is currently injured. He has only been skating with the Goalies and I believe he didn’t participate in the first scrimmage at all.

    • McRib

      So I was partially right Roman Horak was not very impressive for me wearing 21, Haha. Like some have stated he struggled with his linemates, that said there is a reason he was paired with inexperienced players he is supposed to be a leader. I think Roman Horaks speed got him to the NHL faster than expected, but now we are starting to see some areas of improvement.

      Interesting Jon GIllies said Corbin Knight was the hardest forward to stop at camp, he looked great defensively for me and has such a well rounded game. He is as good a bet as anyone to start with the big club in that fourth line centre role.

      It a shame then the secondary ice wasn’t built with more capacity, maybe its just nostalgia but the WInsport arenas will never top Father David Bauer. Although now that it has been mentioned those rinks are also Olympic Size, Haha.

  • Truculence

    I call bullshit on the Horvat-Domi WOWY if the intent is to believe that Domi is the better all-around player. The boys at BRoad Street Hockey had an interesting article up on prospect usage, and while it is reliant on proxies to calculate qaulity of competition, it is nevertheless illuminating.

    First off, it contends that Monhan faced some of the toughest minutes in the entire OHL. Secondly it shows that Domi faced significantly lower QOC than many of his teammates. While that article does not state exactly who these teammates are (six faced tougher forwards regularly, while five played as many or more minutes against the premier defencemen of opposing teams), it is apparent that Domi was not consistently playing against the opposing teams`top lines.

    Based on evidence from other articles and scouting reports, Horvat was one of the players doing the heavy lifting. Thus it might be that Horvat scored more with Domi because he faced weaker comp with more O zone starts when paired with Domi, than when he was apart.

    Without advanced stats, we cannot be absolutely certain, but there is a very strong case that Horvat simply played some of the toughest minutes on his team. In that regard, many scouts peg him to be a player in the mould of Bergeron and Kesler.

    In other words, he doesn`t suc just because he was drafted by the Nucks and based on one WOWY without context.

    For more on the aforementioned article, follow this link: http://www.broadstreethockey.com/2013/6/26/4455830/draft-prospect-toi-quality-of-competition

    p.s.: McRib, for a guy that really highlights the competency of private draft firms such as Redline and Mckeens, it`s rather interesting that you would single out Horvat as a potential bust, but quote these very sources to pump up the Flames` draft picks, especially Poirier.

    FYI, Horvat was ranked 14th by Mckeens, while Redline had him going 7th in their mock draft. It`s great to cheer for one`s own prospects, but to denigrate those of other teams, without any real evidence -or, in this case, selective use of sources -is rather misleading and disingenuous.

    • flamesburn89

      All true, but Horvat was so bad at scoring without Domi that it’s hard to convincingly argue that he should have gone in the first round at all, much less the top 10. Playing for the ridiculously good London Knights (albiet in difficult circumstances) Horvat got outscored at even strength (without Domi). That is not good. There is no way to argue that that is good.

      Poirier played difficult circumstances on a really bad team. He scored more points than Horvat did, and most of them were at even strength. Horvat’s offense relied almost entirely on Domi and the powerplay.

      I’m not saying I think Horvat will be a bust–I still think he’ll probably be a second line forward. But the Canucks can and should be questioned for making that pick.

  • flamesburn89

    John Gaudreau is a joke. The skill level this guy has shown has been absolutely incredible. Wicked fast, great hands, him and Monahan have worked very well together so far today.