Goalies Through 10 Games

We’re an even 10 games into the 2014-15 calendar, and now that we have a break and an even number of games played by each, let’s take a quick glimpse at Calgary’s two goaltenders – Karri Ramo and Jonas Hiller.

Spookily, they’ve both played the same number of minutes – 313.

RECORDS

The Flames are 3-2-0 with Jonas Hiller in net and 2-2-1 with Karri Ramo in net.

Hiller’s played against Vancouver, St. Louis, Chicago, Winnipeg & Carolina.

Ramo’s played against Edmonton, Nashville, Columbus, Tampa Bay & Washington.

GOALS FOR/AGAINST

With Hiller in net, Calgary has allowed 9 goals and scored 14. 5 goals against were at even-strength.

With Ramo in net, Calgary has allowed 12 goals and scored 11. (It’s 12 if you count the shootout winner.) 8 goals against were even-strength.

Each goalie has allowed 4 power-play goals by the opposition.

SAVE PERCENTAGES

Hiller: .948 overall, .966 even-strength. Career is .917, last three seasons were .910, .913 and .909.

Ramo: .914 overall,Β .934 even-strength. Career is .903, last season was .911. Previous seasons were in the KHL.

WHO’S BETTER?

So far, even ignoring the difference in run support, the numbers say Hiller is currently better. But his numbers are insanely far above his usual level, suggesting he’s going to crash back down to Earth soon. Ramo through 5 games is basically what Ramo was last season.

  • Derzie

    Sooo, what’s that Kessel trade looking like today? What has Nonis learned from the big man? The reason that I dredge it up is that I have little confidence in BB & BT. Outside of Hiller and Raymond (see Nonis, not too bright), the personnel moves have been very worrisome. Consider this comment an ‘advanced stat style’ look at our forward trajectory. There is a TON to be excited about but most of it is the work of prior management. Proceed with caution.

  • SavardianSpinorama

    With Engelland in the line up, they’ve given up ten fewer shots per game on average (28.7 in his seven games vs 38.7 when he’s eating popcorn). Alternatively, their GAA is higher when he’s in the lineup (2.42) than when he’s sitting (1.67).

  • SavardianSpinorama

    The Hiller signing has certainly paid dividends for Treliving early.

    Flames goaltending last year at times was laughably bad. This year, its been excellent.

  • RKD

    I think both goalies have been very solid, if I had to pick I would give Hiller the edge thus far. I think he’s shown he can be an elite goalie and steal games like he did making that 49 save effort against Chicago. Ramo has been very solid but I would like to see him steal a game here or there. BT is doing the right thing by working through a rebuild by starting from the goaltender out with a strong top d-pairing. Goaltending is why we are 3rd in the Pacific and 8th in the league. There’s lots of speculation one of them will be moved at the deadline. That may happen if the Flames brass really feels Ortio is ready to go and could step in and be a consistent goalie. Ramo is the younger goalie but has the expiring contract. Hiller would be 34 once his deal his up and Ortio would be 25 by then. I could see Ramo being given a 1 year deal in the summer but he may not be up for that. If they move Hiller they could get some decent return if he keeps playing at a high level.

  • beloch

    This article compared the number of shots and different ranges that were allowed on goalies last season. Hiller was notable for having faced one of the toughest shot distributions in the league last season while backstopping the Ducks. Ramo faced somewhat easier shots. This suggests that Calgary’s defence isn’t as bad as some may think (mostly thanks to the Brodano top pair), but also that Hiller may be better than his sv% indicated last season, especially if you entertain the notion that he was tuckered out by the Olympics.

    Hiller is going to regress towards his career average. I don’t care how elite a goalie is, 0.948 is not sustainable over a full season. However, he might not regress so far as his sv% last season. He may settle in slightly higher, thanks to facing a (hopefully) easier shot distribution this season and also thanks to Ramo giving him plenty of rest (and competition).

    Ramo, on the other hand, is younger and newer to the league. Hiller is indeed probably the better goalie right now, but what will Ramo be like after another year in the NHL?

    For the first time since Kipper was both with the team and red hot, the Flames actually have a great goalie squad. They’ve also got some great prospects knocking on the door. Seriously, net is the most improved position for the Flames this year, by parsecs! It’s good enough that, if the team is clearly not in the playoff bubble by mid-season, Burke/Treliving should seriously consider unloading a goalie if he can line up a good trade. I have no idea how Burke got a second rounder for Reto Berra, but it’s immensely satisfying to ponder what he could get for Ramo or Hiller!

    • ChinookArchYYC

      “but what will Ramo be like after another year in the NHL?”

      Is he not 29 years old (or soon to be) and commands a ridiculous salary?? Does he not get on periodic hot streaks but at the end of the day has ‘rebound’ and now ‘glove side’ issues?

      Hopefully the Flames can get something for this declining asset!!

        • SavardianSpinorama

          Check your facts..closer to $3M per year. If you want to be more specific $2.75M!

          Is that what you think you should pay a bonafide back-up goaltender?

          • piscera.infada

            Ben Scrivens makes 2.3 million. Fasth makes 2.9. I wouldn’t argue that either of those guys are better, and both are equally as inexperienced. All three are about the same age too.

          • Grant

            Ben Scrivens just shut out the number 1 overall team in the league ,Montreal,and was named 2nd star of the week.
            He also has his team riding a four game win streak.
            Flames lose to another team tonight that Edmonton just beat!

          • T&A4Flames

            Did Carey Price play last night??

            Looks like the Habs will play there first stringers against the Flames. Last nights game vs the loser Oilers was a good practice.

          • T&A4Flames

            And you’re still behind us. Largely due to our beating of you in your home opener.

            Make sure your seat belt is done up for your roller caster ride. Your fan base is like a bunch of teenage girls who are so emotionally out of control.

          • Grant

            Seems to me that the Flames have been on the downward trend. They were 4-1 at one point this year. Edmonton is in your rear view mirror buddy and you can’t handle it! Loss against Montreal tonight for Calgary.

          • RedMan

            Agree!

            9 years of downward trends and many 1st overalls and they are competing with the rebuilding Flames and at par with the Sabres and Hurricanes…..embarrassing.

          • T&A4Flames

            Dude, I I’m just fine. What I can’t handle is watching your crap ass team tank yet another seasoning, making it 6 in a row by my count, in yet another attempt to find that saviour. What else I can’t handle is guys like you who come and troll when your team actually does something and when they suck you run back to your own kind and trash your own team. Why don’t you grow a set and take it like you dish it. And for f’s sake stop your emotional imbalance. Realize your team sucks and has sucked for many years and may only just slightly come out this year a tad better than the last 7.

            I can handle my teams year just fine. We’re only in year 2 of a rebuild and should suck. It was said many times last year and I can’t believe it has to be said again, but if you guys are below us again this year,that would be just way beyond pathetic. Keep cheering for the worst franchise in hockey though. I wouldn’t want your team to move and take away all my moments of pure joy and laughter.

          • Grant

            The funny thing is that your team has sucked even when they were not rebuilding.
            That’s the cold hard truth!
            They had really good teams, great goaltending,and Iginla. They still sucked!

          • RedMan

            In case you didn’t know it, a good troll puts a little effort into making his trash talk at least funny, if not witty.

            Yours just comes across as a bit stupid, making you look a bit like a dolt. “You suck” is actually kinda pathetic, and makes one think you are just an adolescent.

            So, take this as constructive criticism, and up your game, or alternately stick with your own age group so you dont look so stupid. πŸ˜‰

          • Kevin R

            Please just go away to your own kind & then you can all chant about your 4 game win streak. One parting note to take with you:
            I deliberately pick 2 Oiler in my hockey pools. If you guys ever figure it out I do well in my pool & I’m happy. When you guys suck, like you usually do because I haven’t won a pool for a while, I’m still pretty happy when I read posters on Oilers Nation. Life is good! :-}

          • RedMan

            I don’t get why most of us have this need to constantly compare and attack the Oilers. First it was them doing a rebuild at all. Once we joined the party we switch to bashing how long it is taking.

            Almost everyone does it. Why?

            I constantly hear about how the Oilers are 8 years in and we are 2 years in. This is false. The Oilers started their rebuild in 2010. We started in 2012. Both teams floundered for many years before this. It’s not like the Oilers were any good before 2006. So why not just say they’ve been rebuilding for 25 years. And we’ve been rebuilding for 30.

            The need to bash their rebuild and twist the facts looks pathetic to me. Personally I hope we can do it faster and better than them, but slinging mud is sort of like the two fat ugly chicks arguing over who is fatter and uglier. Its just embarrassing to everyone and really hard to watch.

          • The Last Big Bear

            In 2006-2007, the Oilers traded away every veteran player they had for picks and prospects, made 3 first round draft picks in 2007, and in the following season eleven of their top 12 scoring forwards were 25 years old and under.

            I don’t even know what to say to people who don’t consider that a rebuild.

            But they clearly wouldn’t recognize a rebuild if someone beat them over the head with one.

          • Kevin R

            BTW – this is completely bunk too. I’m not an Oiler historian but as far as I can recall they traded Chris Pronger & Sergei Samsonov left after 2006. One was a trade demand, the other a UFA walk.

            Otherwise they resigned everyone, including crazy overpays for the likes of Shawn Horcoff, Fernando Pisani and Dwayne Roloson. Basically the exact 100% opposite of “trading away every veteran player they had for picks and prospects”.

            Again, I get its fun to stand on the soapbox and laugh at 8 years, but reality is our rebuilds are a lot closer than anyone around wants to admit.

          • T&A4Flames

            this is such a tiring discussion

            @kevin r – sorry wasn’t really replying to you, just the thread in general. I wasn’t around in the 80s so my hatred of the Oilers probably doesn’t run as deep. I actually think they are going to be a good team, and look forward to Alberta turning into what California is right now in a few years…

            @big bear – OK. Well if you ask Oiler fans and mgmt if they thought they were rebuilding in 2007,2008 or 2009 it will be 100% unanimous NO. They tried to ‘re-tool’ and failed miserably. When you are rebuilding you don’t offer sheet Dustin Penner, go whale hunting for Dany Heatley, Marian Hossa and others. I realize its fun to say 2006 and that they have been rebuilding for 8 years. I get it. It’s a fun line to sit and point and say we are less crappy than them. But it is just false.

            Anyways, I don’t know how I got pegged as an Oiler fan. I’m not even 1%. I just think it looks pathetic how some Flames fans are about it all…..

          • T&A4Flames

            You got pegged an Oilers fan because your coming across as an Oiler apologist and sympathizer. For the longest time all your comments would start off with, ” all my coiler buddies…” You’ve been commenting for a few years and I have always sensed a pathetic sympathy for your buddies team to a point where, at least a decent sized part of you, cheers for them.

            I suspect most comments re: rebuilding starting 8 years ago is just a dramatic #. The rebuild started in the ’09-’10 season, as you stated. Most Flames fans here are aware of it. I, like Kevin grew up with the battles of the 80’s and 90’s. Those years create a deep seeded dislike, shall I say, for the team up north. I truly hope it gets back to those levels someday so that people like you are forced to pick a side and let your ire grow.

          • Kevin R

            Not sure why you directed your comment at me, I never go on Oiler Nation & trash talk. I always post on FN & focus on our team. Could really care less how long they have been rebuilding, as long as we keep beating them even in our early rebuild years, Im happy. But these facts are true: 1/ I have lots of Oiler buddies who were horrible over the years they had their power house. I went to games during the Alberta dynasties & my hate for Oilers is deep & my scars will never heal. Not sure if you were ever around to the true Battle of Alberta & the games that grew the legend of the rivalry, then I understand your apathy. 2/ I really do pick Oilers for my pools for the above stated reasons. 3/If I did go on the Oiler thread & start chirping their team I would expect to get abuse. If you don’t like responses from some passionate Flames fans, don’t read them.

          • T&A4Flames

            wow, 3 comments to my 1 response. You really are an emotional wreck aren’t you.

            1st, yes, we do suck. Thanks Mr. obvious. as stated, year 2 of our rebuild. Something you should have a real strong knowledge base on.

            2nd. If you don’t trash the Oilers during their losing periods then you don’t comment on Oilersnation. Nothing but doom and gloom and trashing of those beloved Oilers.

            3rd. your team sucked even when not rebuilding as well. Hence the reason why you started. Oh, and you sucked more than us.

            So, I know you are what am I? What’s next, you want to tell me the nursery rhyme your daddy taught you last night?

          • RedMan

            Your treating him like a child! that’s very respectful and appropriate – good on you! hope he doesn’t lose his internet privileges and get grounded for this πŸ˜‰

          • Grant

            You hide like a worm when they lose. You re-appear like a fool win they win. Thankfully we will not hear from you much more than 20 times this year.

            Bye loser.

          • The Last Big Bear

            Uh oh, looks like somebody’s had a little bit too much sugar today!

            I think you should probably have a nice nap before before you go on the Internet and tell all the kids about how the Oilers REALLY DID IT THIS TIME, and how they’re TOTALLY NOT COMPLETE BALLS anymore.

          • Grant

            I’m sure we can handle it Grant. A rebuild year (that we were all prepared for) with no expectations but to grow our young talent and maybe acquire some more.

            Your the one who can’t seem to get a grip, over here every other day waving your crappy flag like an idiot.

          • piscera.infada

            You have quite nicely articulated 3 NHL back-up goalies. All are overpaid IMO!

            I would like to see Ortio ($600K) back-up Hillier soon. I believe that is the plan. Kari (glove side) Ramo is a UFA..like I said earlier I hope we can salvage somekind of draft choice before the trade deadline.

          • piscera.infada

            No chance of that. Die hard Flamer & Stamper to the very end.

            I admit I do at times wake up in a cold sweat thinking that the Oilers just drafted McDavid or Eichel. My worst nightmare!!!!!

          • piscera.infada

            It’s all part of player development. That’s why Ortio is there and the Flames kept Ramo, at least for the time being.

            Now you know why NHL teams spend $millions on farm teams and player development! Ortio will be fine!

          • SavardianSpinorama

            Well, I hope you’re right, but in the meantime, it is beneficial to the Flames that both Hiller and Ramo play well so that the team may acquire an asset (preferably a young d-man) for one of them.

  • ChinookArchYYC

    Good summary. Early on I thought Ramo had the easier opponents, but I think that is evening out. Both have played very well with not much to choose between them, even though Hiller’s got better numbers. But numbers don’t tell the whole story, defensive breakdowns, gimmes and odd-man rushes count too and I think perhaps Ramo’s had the tougher circumstances overall.

    If they keep this up the Flames will be in the 8-15 draft range.

  • ChinookArchYYC

    Through 10 games the Flames goalies have kept the good ship Calgary afloat. At this point, Calgary’s PDO is sitting above 103 (EV), which is good enough for 3rd in the league. That’s a very high PDO for any team, especially a team who’s best offensive player is probably Hudler (that’s not a put down btw, I like Hudler).

    I like both these goalies and I wouldn’t make a decision on next year for another 30 plus games.

    • T&A4Flames

      Decision for next year will largely depend on how Ortio develops in Adirondack. If he struggles just extend them both and bring up Gillies to Addy next year along with Ortio, who wouldn’t be in as much demand if that is the case…

        • ChinookArchYYC

          No, not in the way. Re-sign Ramo for ~2 years, extend Hiller for 1-2 yrs(prior to contract end. Send Ortio to Addy (waivers) and bring up Gillies. Let them all fight it out and see who emerges in 2 years…

          • ChinookArchYYC

            Gotcha.

            I think I’d rather roll with one of Hiller/Ramo with Ortio next year as opposed to risking losing Ortio to waivers. See what we can get for the 3rd guy out, at the deadline.