Does Enroth Deal Indicate Ramo’s Value?

In the second deal of the day for the Buffalo Sabres on Wednesday, the Sabres sent goaltender Jhonas Enroth to the Dallas Stars in exchange for goalie Anders Lindback and a conditional third round selection in this year’s draft.

The Enroth swap may indicate a general value for goaltenders that could provide an idea of what Karri Ramo could net, if traded.

There have been a handful of recent trades involving goaltenders and draft picks, which could provide some clues:

  • Washington traded Michael Neuvirth and Rostislav Klesla to Buffalo for Jaroslav Halak and a 2015 third round pick.
  • Anaheim traded Victor Fasth to Edmonton for a 2014 fifth round pick and a 2015 third round pick.
  • Columbus traded Steve Mason to Philadelphia for Michael Leighton and a 2015 third round pick.
  • Arizona traded Devan Dubnyk to Minnesota for a 2015 third round pick.
  • And now, Buffalo traded Jhonas Enroth to Dallas for Anders Lindback and a conditional 2015 third round pick (it becomes a second rounder if some conditions are met).

The Fasth deal seems to be the one I’d point to if I were Brad Treliving. Fasth’s numbers are downright bad compared to Ramo’s. Fasth is 5-14-2, with a 3.33 goals against average and ugly .889 save percentage. Ramo’s 8-5-1 with a 2.62 goals against average and .905 save percentage.

And in terms of the Enroth/Lindback swap, Enroth has a similar save percentage to Ramo’s (.903) but ugly goals-against and win-loss numbers, while Lindback has been an NHL/AHL tweener with great AHL numbers in limited duty by an UGLY 2-8-0 NHL record.

So the gist is, Ramo’s value should be in the vicinity of a depth player and a third round pick (or a third round pick and a fourth or fifth round pick). But given that Reto Berra was moved for a second round selection last year, virtually anything is possible if you have a suitably motivated buyer.

    • everton fc

      I bet they are shopping Ramo. And they should. Ortio can back up Hiller if we truly want to try for a deep run in the playoffs, which we should (why wouldn’t we?).

      If Ramo can bring either a solid 3-6 d-man and a pick, or a solid PP specialist (offence or defence, which we need) and a pick, I’d like to see that happen. Best for Ramo’s career. Best for the Flames. And I think the positive attitude here up and down and all around the organization can rejuvenate a player perhaps in a career funk. I’m not talking a Setoguchi case, more like a Mason Raymond/David Jones case. Or even a Diaz case, though we’d need someone a step up from Diaz.

      Adirondack can ride Thiessen and whomever else, as their playoff run is not near as important as ours. Thiessen’s a good goalie. The team simply needs to learn to trust him. Easier typed than done, of course.

        • everton fc

          I was just basing my comment on the value sited in the article. Meaning a 3rd.

          I’d be happy to land a decent d-man under 30 in the 4-6 slot for Ramo and a prospect. Say Reinhart. Though not necessarily him.

          I’d hold onto picks.

          Thieseen might be able to take the farm team deep into the playoffs.

      • SmellOfVictory

        How do you figure that Adirondack’s playoff run isn’t nearly as important as Calgary’s? You’ve got potentially 1/4-1/3 of future Flames players on that AHL team right now, and the extra games could do wonders for their development.

        A Cinderella playoff run in the NHL that is almost guaranteed to fail isn’t more important than that, in my mind.

        • everton fc

          I didn’t say Addy’s playoff run was not important. It is. I’m saying it’s not as important as a run at Lord Stanley. Which is possible if we make the playoffs.

          Do you think Hartley doesn’t think he can go deep if he gets into the playoffs? Why not shoot for the stars?

          That said, and to a lot of people’s points, moving Ramo in a playoff run is a risk.

    • Toofun

      Does it make sense to swap Ramo for Petry?

      Two rentals with decent upside. Both teams get a test-drive down the stretch and exclusive negotiation rights for a few months with players that fill holes on their respective rosters.

      I have to admit though that I don’t feel very good about giving up Ramo.

    • The thing is, I’d rather have Ortio lead his own team deep into the playoffs, not as a backup. And that’s exactly what he’d be in Calgary.

      So, like the Enroth deal, it wouldn’t hurt bringing a rental goalie back in a deal just for 20 games or whatever and then let him go in the offseason. It’s better than having Ortio sit and watch while Thiessen starts for Adirondack.

    • RedMan

      agree with those who think we need to resist the urge to tinker with the goalie situation right now for the sake of both the big club and the minor club… we don’t want Ortio riding the pine 9 out of 10 games in Calgary right now.

    • The Last Big Bear

      Why does everyone put Hiller atop Ramo?

      Did you know they have the same win differential +3 wins/losses, but the difference is Hiller has played in twice as many games… Ramo has more shutouts and doesn’t allow soft goals which Hiller seems to do atleast once a game… these are the goals that sink a team, especially in the playoffs. HIller is awful coming in cold off a bench so if the plan is to have Ortio take more reps/games, then you need a CAPABLE backup in the waiting, which Ramo is…

      at this point, with inflated numbers, Hiller may provide the best payoff for the team.

    • The Last Big Bear

      Goalies are voodoo.

      I don’t think the Flames have enough goalies, never mind too many.

      I’d shed not a single tear if Ortio spent much of next year in the AHL, despite having a 1-way contract.

      And I’d shed just as many years if Ramo got re-signed only to be sent down to Stockton.

      Never trust a goalie who is not right at that exact moment giving you a Vezina-level performance. In fact, just don’t trust goalies.

      Too unpredictable.

      Always have spares.

    • JumpJet

      Keep in mind that the third round pick Buffalo got from Dallas is conditional. That pick turns into a second rounder if Enroth wins four games with the Stars. With that in mind, I think Ramo could fetch a second round pick.

      As mentioned above, I wouldn’t mind a goalie coming back the other way so Ortio can play out the season in Adirondack. Either that or Thiessen (if he has an NHL contract, I can’t remember) can back up Hiller and only play in one of two back to back games.

    • Rockmorton65

      You need a spare goalie if you think you have a chance of making the playoffs. Even a minor injury to Hiller could derail the train…you need an experienced backup to take over.

      There is a looming 7 game road trip with 2 back to back scenarios commencing February 24 and ending March 8 – past the trade deadline. The Flames have 4 sets of back-to-back games in total the rest of the year. No way you can expect Hiller to play them all. And he does hit an emotional wall if he plays too many games in a row.

      And I agree the majority that the Flames would be best served by Ortio playing for Addy and going for a long playoff run. You don’t want him to play only 4 games to season end.

      RAMO stays to end of season!

    • Rockmorton65

      Here’s an idea,

      Trade Ramo and a 3rd to Detroit for Kindl and a 2nd.

      Then trade Smid to Edmonton for Petry. (Oh the laughter we’d have this summer!)

    • Derzie

      Ramo isn’t going anywhere as long as we are pushing for the playoffs. Also, I wish fans of all teams would no longer post things like “we’ll give them our teams trash for a player they want to keep”. Like the Reinhart++ for Bishop thing above. Silliness.

    • prendrefeu

      I would prefer if both Hiller and Ramo stay through the end of the season, playoffs or not.

      They’re both decent. They’re both streaky. They’re both ‘gooder than average’. In other words, they can win games – and that’s what matters. If one goes down, you have the other guy right there ready, and capable, of winning.

      This is much more preferable, for me, than a situation where you have a team relying heavily on 1x phenomenal goaltender and 1x meh-level backup. See: Quick and the Kings, Price and the Canadiens. One starts sucking or goes down, the ship goes down.

      As long as the goaltender is ‘gooder than average’ and better than ‘meh’ you can somewhat, not entirely, make up for the difference by having a strong defense, blocking shots, and a stronger work ethic. While it is acknowledged that the last pairing, and perhaps half of the second pairing, of Calgary’s defensive corps could use an improvement… they can still help the cause. A phenomenal goaltender might be the difference maker for a Stan Lee Bowl winning team, but let’s be honest here: the Flames will go as far as they can this year, and good on them all the way. Let’s not be delusional and think that this is the year (it’s next year, actually) – keep performing with a strong, balanced team and re-tool in the off season, get the team cohesive in training camp and training with superior conditioning… and Stan Lee Bowl 2016.