Deryk Engelland May Be Getting Suspended

Good morning! The Calgary Flames lost 4-1 to the Vancouver Canucks last night. The game was largely out of hand by the third period.

So things go chippy, as they tend to do late in one-sided playoff games. And that led to a melee near the end of the contest that may have line-up implications for both sides for Game 3.

A giant scrum erupted with 1:17 remaining in regulation beside Eddie Lack’s net.

  • Deryk Engelland was credited with two fighting majors, one instigator, and three game misconducts (all versus Dorsett).
  • Matt Stajan was credited with a fighting major and a game misconduct versus Brad Richardson.
  • Michael Ferland was credited with a 10-minute misconduct versus Shawn Matthias.Brandon Bollig was credited with a 10-minute misconduct versus Dan Hamhuis.
  • Dorsett got two majors and a game misconduct (versus Engelland).
  • Richardson got a major and a game misconduct versus Stajan.
  • Matthias got a 10-minute misconduct versus Ferland.
  • Hamhuis got a game misconduct versus Engelland.

First and foremost, I expect some fines to both sides.

Secondly, I think Deryk Engelland’s getting suspended for Game 3.

Here’s my understanding of the penalties: Stajan and Richardson had the original fight, and then Engelland and Dorsett get after each other. That’s a secondary altercation, which is an automatic game misconduct under Rule 46. In addition, he got given an instigator penalty in the final five minutes of a game, which is also an automatic game misconduct under Rule 46. Now, presumably his third game misconduct (and Dorsett’s second) were for continuing the altercation past the completion of their original secondary altercation. You can argue that the third game misconduct is bogus, as Dorsett did as much (if not more) to continue the altercation as Engelland did.

But let’s not lie to each other there: the first two game misconducts aren’t nearly as disputable.

But per Elliotte Friedman’s Twitter, he believes the game misconducts are for (1) the instigator in the last five minutes of a game, (2) being the aggressor in a fight, (3) the secondary altercation. I’ll tend to believe Friedman more often than not, so there’s a chance that the automatic suspension rule doesn’t apply. (How being the aggressor in a fight applies here and continuing an altercation doesn’t, I don’t know, but my understanding is the scoresheet has been poured over by league officials.)

Here’s Rule 23.3, which governs suspensions.

Screen Shot 2015-04-18 at 1.37.22 AM

Engelland better hope that the “continuing the altercation” game misconduct gets tossed out (or that Friedman’s information is correct on it being the aggressor version instead, because as it stands, he likely has two General Category game misconducts, and that means an automatic suspension. Then again, based on this metric, Dorsett would also face an automatic suspension.

Meanwhile, Bob McKenzie weighed in on a potential Kris Russell suspension or fine:

Presumably, if Engelland was unable to play on Sunday, the Flames would bring Tyler Wotherspoon into action and move pairings around like crazy.

  • everton fc

    Madness.

    Engelland never fought Hamhuis. Hamhuis was 3rd man in, and instigator, if honesty has any part in this. Can the league not watch the same video and see Hamhuis and Dorsett basically ganged up on Engelland? Two against one? Does Dorsett really need to be protected from Engelland – the guy has 175 PLMs.

    What a joke if Hamhuis doesn’t get suspended. More so if Engelland does.

    I will say Dorsett does stick up for his teammates, and I like his game. He and Engelland going at it is fair. Both would say the same. Dorsett never had, nor never will need anyone stepping in to help him out. He’s a game kid. He can actually play the game.

    • mk

      I’m a Canucks fan so take what I’m saying as inherently biased, but here it is:

      First, I appreciate the props for Dorsett – he’s great for our team.

      Second, I think you’ve got a team with amazing heart over there – glad that you made it in this year (especially over L.A.)

      Third, I would agree with you about Hamhuis and ganging up if it was truly a case of two guys assaulting another guy. but this was more like those Kung-Fu action movies where the hero is outnumbered, but the bad-guys attack one at a time. Hamhuis was justifiably ticked off and wanted to get in there – but it wasn’t much of a gang-up.

      Last point – I think this was definetly and engineered fight by hartley to get the Flames up for game three. I’d like to see that sort of thing out of the game.

    • MonsterPod

      “Feland” huh? Go back to the coast, troll.

      Pike, I’m confused why this article is focusing on Engelland when the dude got jumped by Hamhuis.

      First of all, Hamhuis is not tough, so what is he doing in there? Second, where was Bollig who had Hamhuis initially?

      Engelland and Dorsett get in a scrap. Whooptido… The real story here is the third man in, ganging up on our guy, then Dorsett going back after Engelland when he’s clearly exhausted and bleeding.

      Very confused by your take of the situation, Ryan.

      • everton fc

        Dorsett popped Engelland when Engelland was tired and probably willing to tie up. That’s where the blood came from. Engelland gave him a few back afterwards. But Hamhuis was clearly third guy in.

        As for Ferland, he became a bonafide NHL playoff warrior, in my opinion. He’s inside the Canucks heads now. They’ll be gunning for him. Just read Bieksa’s comments, calling him ‘Ferklund”. He knows who Ferland is. I can’t stand Bieksa. I hope these two meet, centre ice.

        Hartley did what he does in a situation like this. The Canucks responded. Dorsett did what he does. Stajan showed heart, and Richardson actually backed off a bit after trying the first “tap” while Matty was on the ground.

        Ferland simply roughed up Hamhuis a bit. Nothing atypical there.

        The problem is with Hamhuis jumping in to “help” Dorsett.

        As for Bollig, he was the first one the refs neutralized. Immediately. Even to the point where they let Richardson rough up Matty while the latter was on the ground.

        Personally, I don’t see the big deal here. It’s playoff hockey. Hamhuis was the only one out of line, as third man in. Remove this and this is not even a story, really.

        All that said, the Flames are now in the Canucks heads. Especially Ferland. Mission accomplished by Hartley? We shall see…

        Certainly adds more to the drama and tension of this series against a team Flames fans hate. I don’t mind this…

  • wot96

    I’m really confused by the instigator. Richardson came at stajan from behind. No instigator which is fine. Engelland grabbed Dorsett who clearly wasn’t wanting to fight so engelland tossed him around a bit. For some reason, hamhuis jumps engelland and a 2on1 wrestling match ensues. An exhausted engelland wants at hamhuis so Dorsett suckers him starting an altercation. If one instigator in that whole mess is called, how can it be against engelland?

  • RKD

    If Engelland is going to be suspended for three game misconducts then Hamhuis should be suspended for third man in. There’s no reason Hamhuis should be jumping in when Dorsett and Engelland are already engaged in a fight. The linesman should have broken it up right away. Dorsett dropped his gloves first, so he should have gotten the instigator not Engelland. If he is suspended they will have no choice but to put in Wotherspoon.

    • mk

      as has been well documented by now…the ref sent Hamhuis in to tie up Engelland as he had Dorsett defenseless on the ice but “broke the code” by continuing to hit him….Hamhuis did not fight Engelland; he hugged him to keep him from hitting Dorsett. And he did so at the ref’s request…therefore no third man in….

      may the best team win.

      • mk

        Ok…so then following this logic…why wasn’t a flame player sent to intervene when Richardson had Stajan pinned on the ice and was continuing to punch him in the head. Even more dangerous considering Stajan’s head was 2″ from the ice.

        • mk

          Too much stuff going on. B Rich was basically pinning that idiot Stajan for most of that scrum. It was awesome to see B Rich beat up Stajan. Loved it. That moron Stajan wants a fight then gets his arse handed to him. B Rich should’ve done worse to him.

          Go Canucks go!

  • Kybb79

    Ferland had enough with guys going after Johnny! Kudos to Ferland! all the Nucks are scared of him nobody will fight him!!!! But Bieksa and company sure have big mouths but can’t back it up like real men!!!! Typical Vancouver hockey!!!! Nucks want to target are smaller players! Flames better target the Sisters next game and beyond.Flames are wide awake now and even better this is coming home to Calgary!!! im sick of seeing Eddie Lacks dad on tv after every whistle!! lol PS Hamhuis better watch his back!!! Ferland is the man!!!!

  • Kybb79

    Hamhuis should get three games at least. I’m sure Bollig would have pulled him off and helped Engelland, but he was in a bear hug with a referee at the time. As Everton said, he was the first guy the Refs went after. And they did it immediately. No hesitation at all. I’m shocked Bollig actually managed (apparently) to do enough to warrant the misconduct. He was pulled out of the scrum almost before the whole thing started.

  • Kybb79

    Not a troll comment from a Canucks. Just genuine observation!

    Ferland is a heck of a grinder. His value is plain as day. He’s factor every time he is on the ice. And I will admit to having never heard of him before this series (or at least recalling who who is). Is he in the Canucks’ head? Not sure about that. But he sure as heck is in the Flames fan heart (see love letter) and he deserves to be. He’s a keeper.

    (PS Hammer was taking Englland off of Dorset who was being punched by the Flames d-man while on his back. I know that “code” is

    • MonsterPod

      Dorsett was not on his back until he went at Engelland from behind and pulled all 3 of the guys involved down. Then, when engelland was coming at hamhuis, he suckers him. Don’t talk about any code being broken in this case.

  • MonsterPod

    (whoops, accidently sent that off too soon…)

    (code is a subjective term, maleable to whoever is saying it, but normally a guy does not punch an opponent while he is down and defenseless. Hammer pulled him off. That might be 3rd man in, but was hardly a gutless thing to do and Hammer never threw an actual punch… he even held the back of Englland’s head when they went falling down I assume as an attempt to protect him from a sever concussion. Look at the video if you disbelieve.)

    • MonsterPod

      Wow, it’s like you’re presenting a case in court and it’s obvious which side you’re billing.

      Any other instances of the angelic Nucks swooping in to save their innocent teammates from the devilish, code-breaking flames?

      But no, not a troll at all. Just genuine observation.

      • MonsterPod

        Not quite. Just a fan’s (obviously) biased point of view. It’s not trolling to offer up an opposing point of view, and surely Flames fans are thick skinned enough to hear from the other side. I don’t expect you to agree. But the video doesn’t show much ill will on Hammer’s part.

    • mk

      Holy god buddy you are truly a retard. Your initial argue totally swerves off into nothingness and results to “doesnt matter what happens on the ice” “doesn’t matter about officiating”. Remember your initial argument before u start tripping on your self you incompetent clown.

  • MonsterPod

    One final point: no one in Vancouver wants Englland suspended. He was very helpful in our team winning last night. By suspending him, that might put someone who is actually useful for your team in the line up. That outcome is far more grievous for us than any liberties Englland might take.

  • mk

    @GeezMonkey

    I appreciate your genuine observation – but I have a couple of points.

    Hamhuis jumped in while Engelland and Dorsett were standing up against the boards – so how do you equate that with hitting Dorsett while he was down?

    Secondly – the third man penalty is there regardless of the intent or actions of that third man. In other words it doesn’t matter if he jumps in and hugs and kisses Engelland – he is the 3rd man in and deserves punishment for it. The video is clear – Engelland had to fight 2 Canucks – and did – and won!

    I did notice Hamhuis glove behind Engellands head when they went down – I thought that was very stand upish and deserves to be recognized.

    Now if you want to talk about a guy breaking the code and hitting a guy down on the ice – if I were Richardson (I believe that’s who fought Stajan) – I’d be keeping my head up – as his actions on the ice were reprehensible and if he isn’t suspended for that he deserves to have his butt kicked.

    I thought the officiating was garbage for the last 10 minutes of the game – it wasn’t the reason the Canucks won though. Ferlands charge wasn’t a charge based upon other hits in the game, and after that squirmish I could see there being no power play for either team – but there was zero reason to give the Canucks a power play.

    • everton fc

      I`d agree with you on Richardson, especially considering, with all respect, Stajan is a bit of a wuss (but good on him for standing up for himself at the end of the game!)

      I think the officiating is always garbage. NHL fans across the league will find a lot of common ground on these `game managers` posing as referees. But the game was over at that point, so being angry about powerplay opportunities missed in meaningless moments is a waste of time. Calgary wasn’t coming back and the Canucks put out the kids+Hansen line to finish the game.

      But back to the third man in issue, Hammer says the ref told him to intervene. You can choose to believe Hammer is lying to the media (and by extension us) but that seems very out of nature with him (one of the most thoughtful and polite people you’ll find in the NHL). He says he went in to tie-up Engelland, and I believe (because, of course I do).

      As a Canucks fan, I WANT Engelland in the line up because I think he’s a terrible player. And judging by coverage and comments here on Flames Nation, many of you will perhaps begrudgingly agree. So here is hoping the NHL stays out of this 🙂

      • MonsterPod

        First…if the ref did tell him to intervene the ref should be terminated. Encouraging a player to escalate an altercation and break the rules should cost any ref his job.

        Second if the ref didn’t say it…then Hamhuis should be suspended for making inappropriate remarks about the official.

        Thirdly..there is no ‘begrudgingly’ about it…Flames fans don’t want Engelland in the line up. He is a liability every time he is on the ice. He is a marked man by the officials and gets called for things others get away with(probably deservidly so) . Flames will not be any worse off with him out of the line up…and who knows…maybe a step up with Tyler Wotherspoon. Unproven…but can’t be anyworse than Engelland.

  • everton fc

    Wow…so much for the ‘veteran officiating crew’. They let this one get WAY out of hand and missed so many easy ways to cool this down.

    How does Egelland get an instigating penalty? The replay clearly Eggeland engages Dorsett but grabs him. Dorsett bull rushes him into the next then the back boards. Dorsett has his gloves of long before Eggeland does. Then Eggeland gets a third game misconduct for fighting Dorsett the second time? Yea..Dorsett skated up to him…the linesman standing right there let it happen and then Dorsett takes a free shot to Egelland. Sure…yea he should have stopped then. Shouldn’t Dorsett get an second game misconduct for instigating that second fight?

    And what about Richardson continuing to nail Stajan in the face while he is lying on his back on the ice. Automatic game misconduct for continuing a fight while a player is in a vulnerable and dangerous position. No…lying on your back with your head 2 inches from the ice isn’t vulnearable at all.

    Why were the Flames so upset? What the replay of the hack that Richardson delivers to Hillers arms on a goal mouth scramble earlier. Puck is long gone and he takes a free shot. Shortly after that Hartley pulls Hiller. Hartley explained that he was protecting his goalie from retaliation. He even stated that two Canucks players threatened the flames bench with retailiation for the Bollig hit on Lack. The ref heard the chirp and told the canucks players to get to the bench. Nail a 10 minute misconduct to one of them and things cool down.

    Then Ferland…you had him for 2 minutes for charging…then he bumps Lack…nail him for another 2…then nail Lack for the obvious embellishment…Canucks get the Powerplay they deserve…and you get Ferland off for 4 minutes. Maybe even toss a 10 minute misconduct at him and get him out of the game at that point.

    And that is not to mention the fact the video replay shows Lack nailed Bollig in the jaw with his blocker and should have been tossed. He delivered three blows…one to the jaw, one to the gut and one to the butt. The rule book is CLEAR…blocker to the head or face is a game misconduct!

    Ultmiately I hope the NHL does the Flames a favor and nails Eggeland for 25 – 50 games….wishful thinking. The guy is a liability on the ice…and we are just as good with another farm boy call up in his place.

  • MonsterPod

    @GeezMonkey

    If the ref did actually ask Hamhuis to intervene – that ref should be fired – immediately. Then Dorsett should receive several games for continuing to fight Engelland after a sanctioned double team. And Hamhuis still should be penalized for third man – regardless. If someone in a position of authority asks you to do something against he law/rules – you still get punished. And if the ref did ask Hamhuis to jump in – Engellands game misconducts should be overturned – as he was put into the situation to defend himself against 2 combatants by the ref.

    • mk

      I think you are missing the point: none of that matters. I t doesn’t matter whether the refs asked Hamhuis to intervene or not. It doesn’t matter if Richardson was dirtier than Engelland. And it doesn’t matter that the reffing was hot garbage because it will always be. What matters for the Flames is a successful suspension of Engelland. The Flames’ chances will improve IF he is not in the line up.

      If the ref tells Hammer to intervene its ok. It’s not like he’s going to hurt Engelland (which as you agreed he did a real nice thing by protecting his head when they fell, and thus was not his objective knowing how talentless Engelland is). If you want to remain angry about it, go ahead. I hope you go to the Saddledome and voice your undying hatred of Hammer and his villainous ways. Your favourite team is going to need all the support it can get if Engelland is out there on this ice.

  • beloch

    Re: Hamhuis being called in by the refs

    As near as I can tell, this ridiculous rumour starts with Dorsett.

    “The way Dorsett explained it, it was the officials who invited Hamhuis into the fray at the end. They didn’t think they could control Engelland and, as the Canucks’ side goes, requested Hamhuis in there to help tie him up to try and reach a peaceful conclusion to the gong show.”

    The Province

    Why is this rumour ridiculous?

    1. Derek Dorset was not in a position to know what the refs were asking Hamhuis to do. Engelland had his undivided attention.
    2. If the refs wanted to break up a fight, they’d do it themselves. Asking a player to be the third man is not something a ref would ever do unless they were exceedingly stupid.
    3. What do the refs do when they don’t feel ready to break up a fight? They wait for it to end.
    4. In the improbable event that the refs ask for player intervention in a fight, they’d send a guy in from both sides, not just one.
    5. In the astronomically improbable event that a ref asked just one player to interceed, he’d go in with the player, not stand back and watch.

    In order to believe Dorsett’s ridiculous version of the events, I’m going to need to hear it from the official himself. If I hear that from an official, I want him banned from the NHL because he showed an extreme lapse in judgment and has no business working NHL games.

    Hamhuis was the third man in that fight. He should not have been there. That the refs did not give him a third man penalty on the spot is a glaring oversight.

    If Engelland gets suspended and not Hamhuis, questions about the impartiality of the officials and the league should be asked.

    • MonsterPod

      Or maybe not. Down by 3 with not much going your way…who do you expect Hartley to continue to roll out?

      More time for Wideman? He left earlier with an injury and returned. Probably prefered to leave him off the ice.

      More time for Monahan? Gaudreau? Hudler? Those guys play a ton of minutes…time to rest up for Game #3.

      Back to D…Russel and Brodie have played a ton of minutes the past two months…probably a chance to rest them too.

      So yea…that leaves you who was on the ice. Look who the Canucks had on too…Richardson? Dorsett? They were clearly on because the Canucks were looking to go up by another goal.

    • mk

      Yep. That’s exactly why he got a fine. Hately has done this before and is notorious for this stupidity. Ah well. He sends out his ‘thug’ squad to try and hurt and get various Canuck players off their game. Canucks are the better team and Hately is left to these tactics. Sad but true.