FlamesNation Roundtable: 2016 NHL Draft edition

Walking into the 2015 draft, the Flames had nine picks, including a first rounder, three seconds, and two thirds. They walked out with an NHL defenceman and five prospects, only two of whom were drafted with double digit picks.

Draft Weekend 2015 was really Brad Treliving’s weekend. The business savvy (must be genetic) GM stole Connor McDavid’s show, making the big splash minutes before the draft by acquiring Dougie Hamilton (screwing over Edmonton in the process). He then went on to have a hell of a draft, scooping up the OHL’s top scoring defenceman, a defender who already has a season of pro hockey under his belt (+1 NHL game), and the OHL’s sixth most productive scorer.

In less than two weeks, Draft Weekend 2016 will be upon us. The Flames find themselves in a similar situation, owning 10 picks with four in the first two rounds. The Flames have plenty of needs that can’t be addressed by the draft. There’s already some ideas being floated around…

(Context for this tweet: from the Flames season tickets holders’ town hall)

… but we still have no clue what actually awaits us. Your FN writers took their turns answering the big questions facing the Flames heading to June 24th.

1. Who is your ideal (within reason) choice for sixth overall?

Christian Tiberi: Ideally, Dubois. I think that he could still be at six, but the odds are slim. I think the most likely pick is Nylander. Less than ideal, but certainly a great pick nonetheless.

Ari Yanover: I’ve been bouncing around on this ever since the Flames landed on sixth. My initial gut choice was Alex Nylander, but as I looked further into it, I really liked Pierre-Luc Dubois. However, I think it’s pretty unlikely he’s still around at the sixth pick, so I’ve bounced back to Nylander.

Kent Wilson: There isn’t much to separate any of the three potential forwards who could be available there (Nylander, Tkachuk, Dubois). I’d be fine with any one of them, though I’d slightly prefer either Tkachuk or Dubois. 

Ryan Pike: In order of preference:

  1. Pierre-Luc Dubois: physically NHL-ready, and can play all over the place and give the team a ton of positional flexibility.
  2. Matthew Tkachuk: could become a power forward if he can bulk up a little bit.
  3. Alexander Nylander: fast, smart, and can play both wings.
  4. Olli Juolevi: if the “great” forwards aren’t available, might as well settle for a really strong defensive prospect.

Byron Bader: Tkachuk. I hope to god he drops to us. If he’s gone … Dubois is huge and looks like he can play. Keller if those big boys are gone.

Mike Fail: If the Flames stay at six then one of Dubois, Tkachuk, or Nylander. Dubois would be the best of the three, but Tkachuk or Nylander as consolation prizes looks pretty good too.

Christian Roatis:  My ideal choice is tough, because I’ve gotten to the point where I am absolutely fine with any of Dubois, Tkachuk and Nylander. They all look like exceptional prospects. If I had to choose just one, it would be Dubois simply because his numbers are a shade above everyone else’s.

2. What types of players should the Flames be looking for this draft? (i.e. position, size, abilities)

Christian Tiberi: The first priority is forwards (righties superseding lefties) with proven scoring abilities. Within the top 100, I feel that there are some very good players with a feasible chance of making the NHL in the next few years. Outside of the third round, I think they’re just looking to build depth at all positions. There’s probably going to be one guy over 6’5″, just because Burke gets one pick per year.

Ari Yanover: Skill. Skill. Skill. Go for skill. Is this kid projected to be an impact player? Fantastic – whether he makes it or not is a whole other issue, but as long as he looks like he’s going to make meaningful contributions to his future team – and if he’s already making them to his current team – then he should be on the radar. 

There’s probably at least somewhat of a priority on right wingers, as the Flames are particularly weak in that department, so I’d expect to see someone who fits that bill drafted relatively early on. Size is but a number, though, and if the Flames of all teams can’t fathom that, then that’s a problem. 

Kent Wilson: The draft is as much a game of poker mixed with stock market jockeying as anything else. My strategy as a GM would be to prefer skill and homerun picks over anything else – if a prospect’s upside is “safe third liner” or “bottom pairing defenseman”, he wouldn’t make it onto my list. 

They only position I assume they will foreground is RW, since that remains a big area of weakness in the organization. I suspect size will be preferred in their forward picks as well, though I hope they take advantage of guys like Adam Mascherin or Alex DeBrincat if they happen to fall within range.

Ryan Pike: The Flames need right-handed forwards that can score. Failing that, they need left-handed forwards that can score.

Byron Bader: Big young wingers (born in the spring or summer) that have scoring numbers that suggest they can succeed in the NHL (at least a 20+ NHLe). Not Pepsi machines with good character please.

Mike Fail: Forwards, primarily on the right wing. Don’t emphasize size or “heaviness” — put a premium on skill and talent. Make your decisions on that over picks that look bad even as a seventh round pick a few years from now. If DeBrincat or even Benson fall then go for it.

Christian Roatis: This is a dangerous question because drafting for a designated need is a great way to bust a draft. Best player available regardless what they do, how they do it, and how they look doing it. They should identify forward help at sixth overall without picking an inferior player to what’s available, but after that it needs to be BPA.

3. The Flames have a lot of picks, including three second rounders.
Do you see them making any trades? Up? Down? For an already-established
player?

Christian Tiberi: Despite Burke’s plan, I’m not sold that enough second round picks will get you a goalie that can be a quality starter over 40 or 50 games (assuming no other assets are in play). I think if you cross-reference the list of goalies that are on the trade block and their values with the price the Flames are willing to pay, you are going to find no correlation.

Not for a lack of trying, but I think the Flames will retain all three of their second round picks. I wouldn’t be disheartened; there is a lot of talent available in the second. It’s probably time to stockpile as much as the Flames can for the
future anyways. If the team is serious about a playoff run sometime soon, future
draft picks are going to be auctioned off for immediate help. It’s
imperative that the farm is still healthy.

Ari Yanover: So far in Treliving’s first two drafts, he’s traded for an established roster player: a third round pick for Brandon Bollig in 2014 (yikes), and a collection of picks for Dougie Hamilton in 2015 (the opposite of yikes). Considering how there are holes to be filled in the Flames’ lineup – most notably that of goaltending and the right side – I would be shocked if he didn’t do that. Having a ton of second rounders is great not only for draft position, but to be able to use them as a serious bargaining chip.

The ultimate dream is to trade up for Jesse Puljujarvi, but it’s pretty difficult to tell if that even has a realistic chance of happening. I think we’ll see some picks packaged together – either to trade up and grab a prospect the Flames really like, or for, say, Frederik Andersen.

Kent Wilson: The Flames have four options for their second rounders: use them in a goalie trade, in a RWer trade, in a trade to move up in the first round or simply use them. 

I think it will most certainly be one of the first three. If Treliving can find a way to leverage the collection of second rounders to address one of the club’s glaring needs, he will. Of course, it will then depend on what is available at what price. Can they get Kevin Hayes for a second rounder+? Will packaging all of their second rounders convince CBJ to move from third to sixth?

For now I’m going to contradict Christian and say it will be a goalie trade. The goaltender market looks like a buyer’s market to me – way more supply than demand. You can count the amount of teams looking for goalies on one hand (Calgary, Toronto, Carolina) and the potential acquisition options on two (big trades, moderate trades, free agents). That means the Flames have some leverage in negotiations.

My preference, in order, would be: package to move up and pick Puljujarvi, package for a quality goalie (Andersen?), use one in a package to get a decent RWer (Hayes, Nichushkin). 

Ryan Pike: Call me the contrarian of this group, but after hearing Brad Treliving talk about “re-stocking the cupboards” I figure that the team will be perfectly content to simply use their stockpile of picks to give themselves some options in their prospect pool. Depending on what happens in the first round, I also could see the team adding a pick via trading down.

If they do trade one of them away, it would likely be for a goaltender, as they simply don’t have as much need in other areas to spend such a valuable currency as a second round pick on anything else.

Byron Bader: Absolutely. Treliving works the phones more than anybody in the league. I imagine some of those picks will be used in a capacity to obtain a goalie. I’d be surprised if that didn’t happen.

Mike Fail: I’d be extremely happy if they moved a pick in a package for a goalie. Acquiring a goalie via trade would be a phenomenal boost to the team; given how the expansion draft is going to run-a-muck on goalies it should be considered. I’d aggressively target the Blue Jackets to see what I could pry out of them in a package for their pick too.

Christian Roatis: I think Treliving tries to get the third overall. I mean, how could you not considering this team’s need and the monster available at third. But if he fails he either makes the picks to solidify the system or he pulls another Hamilton-style move, though it’ll probably be less of a blockbuster has Dougie was last year.

  • EhPierre

    So according to Friedman, the Jackets interviewed Bean, Brown, Jesse, Keller and Tkachuk the most which is a list I’m perfectly content with as I see only Keller (and Jesse) being the real studs from that list. Also, Jackets GM said they received two legit offers for their #3 and that Hartnell also agreed to waive his no-movement clause for several teams so it looks like a trade is gonna happen, just a matter of which lucky team gets the #3

    Friedman also said Flames could be looking to trade down which I find odd since Tre last week said he wouldn’t be moving down. Montreal is looking to move up while Buff and Arizona look to want to draft a defenseman (makes sense given their roster) while Canucks seem to prefer Brown which means either Dubois or Tkachuk may be available to us at #6

    • KiLLKiND

      Friedman also said Flames could be looking to trade down which I find odd since Tre last week said he wouldn’t be moving down. Montreal is looking to move up while Buff and Arizona look to want to draft a defenseman

      wow my entire comment got didn’t work, but bottom line trading down provide great value and we could use whatever ransom we get plus our 2nds to get another 1st round pick and potentially get Debrincat! Along with another 1st rounder which could be anyone, but I’m hoping would be one of Jost, Keller, Sergachev, Bean, Abramov, Gauthier, McAvoy, Kunin, I really did think this list would be smaller, but the players we that are available in the 1st are always extremely tantalizing prospects.

      • EhPierre

        Trading down can be beneficial as long as you don’t trade down too far and you get a good return. I’m perfectly fine with trading down till #10 (Avs spot) as I’m sure either Nylander or Keller will still be there. Problem is though, I’m looking at the teams and I don’t really see anything from their (Buffalo, Montreal) roster that I would like to add. Only Arizona and the Avs have players that I’d be wiling to trade down to get, but realistically I highly doubt Arizona/As would be willing to toss in Duclair or Barrie just to get our 6th pick so at the end of the day, I don’t think the Flames will trade down

        If anything, I can see the Flames using their second round picks to aggressively go after a RW or to get back into the first round

        • KiLLKiND

          Why do we need to get a high end player in return? If we get a decent prospect, rid of Smid, a few picks, a cheap goalie, there could be many options for trading down.

          Along with the pick we could even trade Stajan, who is being slightly overpaid but still a good enough 3-4 center, which would lower our cap hit and allow us to slot in Grant. This would allow us an even larger return, the possibilities for trading this pick are near endless.

          I think Philidaphia could be a great trade partner they have two 2nds, a 1st at 18, and they are really lacking in an elite forward, who they could get if they decide to trade up. They also have a decent pool of RW prospects, however all project to be bottom 6 players.

          So I can see a trade back happening, as someone who isn’t on the “in” I don’t know which teams would be looking to move up, but I suspect that many teams would be very interested in hearing that #6 is up for sale.

    • Backburner

      Trading down would accomplish a few things:

      1) Flames could trade a bad contract like Wideman, Smid, and/or Raymond to free up some cap space, or add more picks.

      2) Flames could still pick a decent forward or defenceman if they stay within the top 10 (Sergachev, Keller..)

      3) The added cap space would give the Flames more flexibility to go after high profile UFA’s such as Okposo or maybe even Stamkos, which Treliving was kicking tires on early in the year.

      It also makes sense for the Flames to move up, but either Treliving is very tight lipped about it, or he’s content with picking at 6.

  • KiLLKiND

    I disagree completely with using our 2nds for a goalie trade. The FA market has plenty of goalies who can be aquirred without giving up any assets and we can simply walk away from, like Hiller in 2-3 years. I would rather use a 2nd to pick either Hart or Gustavsson, rather than use it to aquire an average goalie who won’t last more than 4 years.

    Trading for an RW could be a good option, I’m not sure which RW’s are available except for Yak and I have no idea what it would take to get him. If he could be acquired for cheap (I doubt it) I would be a big fan of getting him, however I doubt Edmonton would be excited to trade former #1 to us especially after we snagged Hamilton from them as well.

    Trading up I am a big fan of to get into the late teens/ early 20’s to pick either of Abramov or Debrincat. While I’m sure we could still get some great players with our 2nds, none can compare to the absolute skill that Debrincat possess. If he gets drafted earlier than draft rankings have him, we could still get Abramov who is also a high skill RW.

    One RW we still haven’t talked about in the coming draft is Boris Katchouk and TheHockeyWriters mock draft has us taking him at 35. http://thehockeywriters.com/5th-annual-nhl-mock-draft-2016-round-2/

    From what I’ve seen and read I’m very impressed and would not be at all disappointed if we didn’t trade up and simply drafted all 3 2nd round picks. At 35 we hopefuly get a 1st round drop out. At 54 it’s much harder to predict, but hopefully someone we were thinking of drafting at 35 falls to us, and 56 we take either of Hart or Gustavsson depending on who is still available.

    • EhPierre

      I really want Nichuskin and I think he can be had for relatively cheap given his swindling last few years. I think if we offer up all three of our seconds plus Shinkaruk, we can get Dallas’ first rounder and Nichuskin if we offer to take Niemi’s salary? That lets us pick up Debrincat as he should be there, if not Abramov, while we also get a big RW in Nichuskin plus our 6th round pick. Dallas has a late first rounder and we have an early second so it’s not like Dallas will be moving down much plus we take Niemi’s salary which allows Dallas to resign their defenseman like Russell (LOL)

      Or maybe that trade scenario is too optimistic? This trade only happens if Tre can clear some space regarding Wideman/Smid

      • KiLLKiND

        I think it might be a slight overpay, but I think that is the best way to suggest trades on fan sites otherwise you end up overvaluing what you are offering. If we take Nemo we probably shouldn’t have to include more than two 2nds, as getting his contract off would be extremely helpful as they currently have the most expensive goaltending tandem in the NHL. Dallas however would be making a very bad move for the future if they did this in my opinion. While Nichuskin hasn’t had the offense people were hoping, they do have him penciled in as part of the core moving and he just turned 21 a few months ago so he is still very young. Him not producing isn’t a huge worry as his offensive ceiling was never going to be super high, and his puck possession was positive, his on-ice shooting percentage was slightly below average, at 8.2%. He will be a great 2nd line player for years and also will need to be protected in the expansion draft.

        So while Nichuskin would be a fantastic addition I don’t think it will happen. He has too much potential for Dallas to give up on him this early. Point totals for young players in the NHL rarely tell the whole story as playing time and linemates can varey. He also isn’t fast enough for the NHL yet, and needs to work on that if he wants to be a top 6 player in the future.

    • everton fc

      I’ve brought up Katchouk a few times here. I don’t think he’ll be around in the 2nd round. But he’d be an interesting pick. He is not a scoring machine, but is absolutely “truculent”.

      I think Keller’s commitment to BU will keep us from considering him. Burke’s not one to wait 4 years for a rebuild. I still have this feeling Nylander could turn into something special. I’ll leave it at that….

      I also get a feeling we’ll go after Columbus 3rd and if that fails, they’ll go after a goalie w/those 2nd’s.

      My only reservation w/Debrincat is he’s reportedly 2 inches SHORTER than Gaudreau. That’s more then “pretty small”. We’d be crazy to move Shinkaruk right now. And I still like Masceherin, but we need RWs…

  • The Fall

    I’m on board with picking skill and swing for the fence. I also agree with using all the picks.

    Flames are still in rebuild mode: they do not need a quick fix for next year. This is the last year of the boat anchor contracts, and it’s most likely they get played out.

    Time to re-stock the cupboards while establishing a positive winning culture.

    • Jake the Snail

      Flames don’t need a quick fix, BUT they do need a competent goalie,preferably one that can grow with the rebuilding team. I am all for giving up a couple of our second rounders and maybe a prospect to get one.

      • piscera.infada

        I hope not. I agree they probably aren’t targeting him, but with Burke just hanging around I get nervous about it every year (Ritchie and Crouse before).

    • BurningSensation

      Given that Logan Brown is a skill C 1st, and a giant 2nd, I’m somewhat ok if we land him.

      It’s Logan Stanley that makes me afraid, he has the desired coke machine ‘size’, but virtually no other redeeming qualities.

      • piscera.infada

        I don’t buy it. You want skill first? Nylander. You want skill and “tenacity”? Keller. You want size with considerably less skill than both and considerably less “tenacity” than Keller? Brown–the only reason to take him over those two is size. Positional scarcity? Keller is a centre, you can probably have your first pick of defenseman.

        Brown is considerably worse as a prospect than a sizeable number of players that will be available at 6. He’s not the right pick there.

        • BurningSensation

          Personally, I’m not in love with Logan Brown, but I wouldnt hate the pick. At worst he projects as a Martin Hanzal type, with a ceiling in the Getzlaf territory. A very useful player type.

          But I also take your point about Keller, a player I would vastly prefer (high end skill, offense first), or for that matter, Nylander, Chychrun or Juolevi (all of whom I have higher on my preferred list).

          And while I know the ‘size’ argument increasingly seems lost, all other things being equal, having the bigger/stronger team is a good thing, and whats more, having young C’s with size+ means you always have a useful trade chip (unlike skill wingers, for whom the market always runs cold – see: every fantasy trade an Oiler fan tries to make involving Eberle)

          • EhPierre

            The thing with Keller is I don’t think the Flames will draft him, or for that matter a team like Vancouver or Arizona or Avalanche. He’s committed to BU and given how his mother is like, I feel like Keller is going to commit for all four years which will provide him with all the development he needs but he won’t be in the NHL till 2020 which is a huge gamble because he could simply walk away. To wait till 2020 for a prospect to step in is a long wait especially when the Flames for example are expectingly supposed to start contending at the 2018 season as well as our huge need for talent upfront. So despite the fact Keller is uber talented, I just feel like a lot of teams, especially the ones who can’t afford to wait, will pass him up for less talented prospects that will be ready to jump in a year or two

          • BurningSensation

            Funny, but I have a sneaking suspicion Calgary has Keller as their target;

            – US born player

            – destroyed the USNTDP, and is one of only a handful of guys to record 100+ points with them (Eichel, Mathews, Kane, Kessel)

            -High-end skill

            Burke gets dumped on (sometimes legitimately) for being a proponent of caveman hockey, but he’s also the guy who drafted the Sedins, and traded for Kessel. He’s not afraid of drafting high skill players, and his connections to US hockey mean Keller should definitely be on our radar.

          • piscera.infada

            And while I know the ‘size’ argument increasingly seems lost, all other things being equal, having the bigger/stronger team is a good thing, and whats more, having young C’s with size+ means you always have a useful trade chip (unlike skill wingers, for whom the market always runs cold – see: every fantasy trade an Oiler fan tries to make involving Eberle)

            “All things being equal” is a hollow argument though. All things are never equal. I mean, honestly what does that even mean? Does that mean that two players literally have the same (or similar) traits across the board, and one is just bigger? It’s also beside the point here, because with Brown at 6, all things definitely aren’t equal.

            As an aside, Eberle could be a very valuable trade chip. He alone is not going to get them a legitimate starting top-2 or top-4 defenseman, but that’s moreso because you need to pay a swoon to get that position. That said, Eberle’s trade value isn’t inherently because he’s not big or not tough, it’s because he has very real holes in his game. However, if he found himself riding shotgun in Pittsburgh, LA, Chicago, Long Island (yes, it’s Brooklyn), or any team that can cover his deficiencies to any degree, he’d probably be worth considerably more.

          • BurningSensation

            My argument is merely that Brown is not a terrible pick at #6, certainly not worth getting into a lather over (Logan Stanley however, would have me throw my remote through the TV).

            As for size being an important factor, it just is. Small guys get hurt more handling the rigors of the NHL, and guys like Gaudreau who can thrive among the trees are as rare as rubies.

            Further, I believe the stats do favour ‘heavier’ teams in the playoffs (if only slightly), so having skill+size is still prerrable to just having skill.

            Lastly, you make my point on Eberle for me. Despite being a legit top line weapon, Eberle isn’t ever getting traded for a top pairing defender. D and C are worth more than equivalent players at L,R or G, and thus, a Logan Brown by virtue of his position and size, as well as his skill level, rises into the top 10. He may never put up the points a Nylander will, but his ‘value’ in trade wont degrade as fast as Nylanders will (see: Nichushkin, a first round winger pick now widely believed to be available for much less).

          • Jumping Jack Flash

            I don’t believe small guys get hurt more. I think to be small and playing in the NHL you have to be extremely elusive or built like a tank. The players that typically get hurt are the ones that are gritty but don’t have the body to sustain that type of play. Case in point, Bouma, Ferland,Bennett, and I dare say Tkachuk. Bennett will have to learn to pick his spots or he will be injury prone.

            The only hit I have seen on Johnny was by Datsyuk in his first year. Datsyuk is not known for hitting and Johnny learned quick that he can’t put himself in that kind of position. I have never seen anyone get a clean hit on Keller, in the limited appearances that I have seen. I will say that it may take less for these players to get hurt but they don’t get hurt more often.

            I tend to agree that a big center has value but only if they are performing. If Logan Brown, under performs other teams may take a chance on him and offer something in a trade. But a big Center that does not offer much in terms of grit and defensive upside would be no different than a big skilled RW who has under achieved in terms of marketability.

        • Bananaberg

          I can’t decide between Keller and Nylander yet; both have great upside. I might lean to Keller because of the tenacity you mentioned and he plays fast(er).

          That said, Kent made a good point earlier in response — Brown’s size/hands and increasing popularity stand to benefit CGY. Especially when we consider CBJ’s centre situation that some classify as “dire”.

          Brown/Keller/Nylander guaranteed availablity at #6, combined with their need to free up AT LEAST $2-3mil in cap space just to sign Jones, etc. increases the odds of Treliving working one of his deals to move up for Puljujarvi, where CBJ can still take a guy they are high on.

          If CGY can get a Top 6 forward, starting goalie, or Top 4 dman in every draft year, we’re going to be competing in the playoffs for a long time. Treliving spent 3 picks for Hamilton last year; he won’t be afraid to spread 4 out (plus some roster players) for Puljujarvi and Andersen (of MAF) this summer.

          • Kevin R

            Ideally, Backkund & the #6 for #3.

            Then Wideman, #53 & our 3rd rounder for Fleury. Then Mascherin falls to us at #35.

            I would call that a pretty darn good day at the draft.

            We add Puljujarvi, Mascherin & Fleury & we have the cap space to maybe even be at UFA shopping mall come july 1

        • McRib

          How in the world can you say Nylander has way more skill than Brown? Nylander had one more point than Brown this year in OHL play. I repeat ONE MORE POINT!!! Not to mention Brown (1.70 PPG) outscored Nylander (1.57) at most recent U18s. One less point in two more games is a considerably worse skill level?!?!? LMAO. This is an even more asinine statement to me because I have actually watched Logan Brown and Alex Nylander both play regularly live and online all year. Alex Nylander had 1.32 PPG this year, Logan Brown had 1.25 PPG in OHL play. Honestly there is no way anyone can say with certainty that Nylander is “more talented” let alone “considerably more talented” based off a 0.07 PPG difference in league play. Nylander also played with one of the best skaters in the entire OHL with McLeod who frequently opens up ice for Nylander and creates a ton of possesion for line by forcing turnovers with an incredibly strong rush (once again I watch the OHL regularly).

          Nylander had 28 PP Points to Browns 29 PP Points. Not to mention if anyone has any more growth or upside in their game it’s the 6’6″ player who is still filling out and having coordination come around after major growth spurt. Windsor also played in a much harder conference than Mississauga (see London, Erie, Sarnia, Kitchener rosters). I mean Nothing against taking Nylander over Brown to be honest (would prefer PLD or Keller), but there is no way anyone can honestly say with any amount of certainty that Nylander is going to be “more skilled” three-to-five years down the road when comparing there OHL stats at this point.

          You also keep comparing Logan Brown (32.9 Draft NHLe) to Nick Richie (31.8 Draft NHLe)…. Not only are Logan Browns numbers better at a much younger age (seven months younger in draft year, Richie had an NHLe of 22.4 in second OHL season), but Nick Richie had a solid AHL season this year (0.79 PPG). Those numbers historically basically guarantee a 20 year old will go on to be an impactful NHLer. Logan Browns numbers are also better then Jonathan Toews, Ryan Getzlaf, Andrew Ladd, Jamie Benn, Corey Perry, etc at the same age, but you are “certain” Alex Nylander is going to be better?!?!?! Sounds like you just don’t like “big” players…. Strange.

          • EhPierre

            Okay Mrs. Brown, I understand you’re not very happy with people criticizing your son but let’s calm down here.

            You made four dire mistakes. 1) Not looking into the context for their points 2) Thinking that Toews is a power forward 3) Thinking that Brown is a power forward 4) Writing this without your cup of coffee

            All jokes aside, you do realize this is Nylander’s first OHL season right, compared to this being Brown’s second OHL season? So in his one OHL season, Nylander has more points than Brown has ever had in his two years of OHL (not accumulated). In the OHL playoffs, Nylander has a 2.0 ppg while Brown is only half of that (Nylander played one more game). Also, Nylander has a lot more international experience than Brown (who’s only had one) while putting up a lot of points in those tournaments. So I know you keep saying their NHLE is really close but in reality that just looks bad on Brown because Nylander has been above Brown throughout this season even though it’s Nylander’s first OHL season. If Nylander had played another season in the OHL, do you really think Brown and Nylander would have similar points? I highly doubt it.

            Since you watch the OHL, can you tell me why Brown didn’t play 60+ games like the rest of his teammates. Was he injured for a few games? If so, don’t you think that looks bad that a 6’6″ giant got injured playing against kids?

  • MontanaMan

    Couple of comments:
    1. Pittsburgh has an excellent blend of skill, character and grit, with average goaltending. Moving forward, the Flames need more skill, less size, retain their current grit and don’t sell the farm but obtain an average goaltender. I have a suspicion it’s Reimer but I have nothing to back it up.
    2. Not to be a db but I heard from a very reliable source that the Flames are down to four candidates for the head coaching position. All are younger and none have previous head coaching experience. Travis Green is one of the four. Randy Carlyle is not.

    • EhPierre

      I heard Yeo is another as well as Gulutzan? I feel like those two would be a mistake and Tre doesn’t make mistakes so hopefully it isn’t Yeo and/or Gulutzan but rather Green or Hawerchuk

      Edit: The Blues signed Yeo as associate coach and will be the head coach in the 2017 season

    • Baalzamon

      I agree with point one. The Penguins (finally) have found a good balance, picking up all those wingers like Sheary, Rust, and Hagelin (and trading Sutter for Bonino. That was hilarious). Trading Neal when he became too expensive for Hornqvist was also a stroke of genius.

      I choose to believe you about point two. The thing I saw on twitter about the Flames’ supposed final three candidates was that they were Carlyle, Gulutzan, and Todd Rierden. None of whom interests me.

  • Craig

    I think the Flames will pick Nylander, and I think that’s the correct choice. If Dubois is avalable I prefer him but I don’t think he will be. Stick to the “next” three, don’t go drafting Brown or someone for size.

    Let’s just get Nylander, he’ll play next year or the year after, he did well at the combine, he’s going to be V. Good.

    Draft size in the 6th round and higher.

    • everton fc

      I like Dubois and love the “Q”, but beware of drafting high, especially forwards, from the “Q”.

      I think Nylander is being overlooked, and some team will get a dynamic forward.

  • Kevin R

    If we can’t score #3 (which is what I want) & Dubois & Tkachuk are gone by the time we get up, would anyone consider our #6 & Raymond to the likes of Carolina for #13 & #21? Or even Boston for #14 & #29?

    • freethe flames

      In a word no. You trade down to meet team needs now not to acquire more lottery tickets. If we move down we need a either a goalie or a top 9 forward who can play this year. You draft for the future and trade for the present.

      • Kevin R

        Well, #13 & #21 would get us some pretty good prospects if we are only worried about stuffing the cupboards. Just saying. I would rather go for #3, but who knows, Im pretty open.

        • freethe flames

          I would rather we get a young player that could help us now. Would the 6th for the 10th be enough to get Pickard? Could we acquire another 1st via a package deal?

          • Baalzamon

            The odds of the Flames pursuing Pickard are virtually nonexistent after the signing of Rittich. The Flames won’t go into next season with Joni Ortio as the oldest goalie in the organization.

          • freethe flames

            If one assumes we stay with Ortio you are probably correct. I could see a scenario where Ortio is moved and the Flames sign a UFA to be the #1 and we end up with a 1a/1b scenerio with a guy like Pickard becoming the #1 by years end. Rittich is signed for 1 year on a show me you can play in NA contract so I am not all that concerned that he hinders long term planning unless he is amazing.

      • Totally agree with this. The only times I would say trade down (not including the situations you already addressed) is that if it is 1-2 spots and you KNOW from talking to the other GMs in those spots on who they will take. Obviously not happening very often in today’s NHL.
        OR
        In the case where you are okay picking 1 of the 3 possibilities that are in those slots AND the offer is real good.

        Think of how it would look if you traded down and the pick you “should” have taken was an all-star. I suppose the opposite can happen too (Trevor Kidd *cough*) GM position is not for the weak stomached.

  • DoubleDIon

    I actually am falling in love with Keller steadily. Every video of him I see shows high end pace and skill. He’s not huge, but he has a little Gallagher to his game and wins battles. I think he’s going to break into the consensus top 6 and I think there’s a chance Juolevi or Brown could too. I’d be fine trading down to 9 or so and picking up the leftovers if we can get some assets back or dump a bad contract doing it.

    • everton fc

      This quote below makes me think Caryle is not on the list:

      Treliving alluded to a potential hold up in the process.

      “The one thing that I wanted to do is be very respectful for those people that are under contract with other organizations,” the GM said. (from Sportsnet)

      Caryle is not in this position. Others are. Unless I’m missing something “legal” here.

      “Rierden” must be Todd Rierden, Asst. Coach, Caps.

      “Reirden went into coaching three years later, taking Wilkes-Barre/Scranton to the American Hockey League’s playoffs twice and assisting Dan Bylsma on the Pittsburgh Penguins’ staff. After two more season as an assistant under Barry Trotz with the Washington Capitals, Reirden’s success is measurable in the progress made by Kris Letang, Matt Niskanen, John Carlson and other defencemen.” (From Sportsnet)

  • McRib

    Wow, lots of misguided dislike for Logan Brown on here. Brown was one of the absolute best forwards at the recent spring U18s (I watched every game of Canada’s & USAs online). Brown out produced all draft eligibles not named Jost, Keller (out played Nylander). Logan Browns (NHLe 32.9) production was also very close to Alex Nylander (NHLe 34.5) in the OHL this season. Do people honestly understand how close those two are in terms of NHLe? Nylander had one more point in two less games…. I mean that’s absolutely negligible. We are possibly talking about a couple more bounces going Nylanders way or Brown feeling under the weather for a couple more games he played. Anyway considering that Brown has almost identical offensive numbers to Nylander and is six inches taller you would be lying to yourself if you say you know with certainty Nylander is going to be a better NHLer.

    Brown is much more than just size. I definitely think most NHL teams over value size in the draft, but Logan Browns offensive upside suggests Top. 10 potential without a doubt. It kind of sounds like people on here are being over critical of a “big player” who has legitimate talent because other “big players” are overrated, which is nonsense. Brown has great on ice vision is an incredibly coordinated skater for his size and has one of the best passing touches in the draft. I mean considering he just finished growing to 6’6″, further coordination is likely going to come around. I would rather draft PLD or Keller, but Brown’s upside is right there with Nylander.

    Ryan Getzlaf Draft NHLe 23.9, Corey Perry Draft NHLe 30.4, Jonathan Toews Draft NHLe 31.2, Andrew Ladd 26.0 Draft NHLe…. Once again Logan Browns NHLe 32.9.

    • Baalzamon

      Logan Browns (NHLe 32.9) production was also very close to Alex Nylander (NHLe 34.5) in the OHL this season. Do people honestly understand how close those two are in terms of NHLe?

      That’s an extremely trite and ignorant sentiment. You realize that Brown had a linemate who scored 90 points, right? Meanwhile Nylander dragged two marginal talents to 60 point seasons.

      • McRib

        Logan Brown only played with Christian Fisher on the PP and late in games. Furthermore McLeod is a marginal talent?!?!?! First time I have ever heard a consensus Top. 15 pick being referred to as a marginal talent…. Even if he doesn’t have great finish, McLeod is an absolute beast possession wise at the OHL level. He is a potential Ryan O’Reilly in the making. One could even make the argument that McLeod did most of the heavy lifting to win puck races for his line. McLeod is already the best skater in the OHL and constantly creates quality chances off an incredibly dynamic rush (even if he can’t finish those chances as often as he should). Honestly go rewatch a couple Steelhead games, McLeod is all over the ice, every shift. McLeod has mediocre finish I admit that, but he is absolutely elite at this age possession wise. Nylander was always in the offensive zone because of McLeod, not other way around. Nathan Bastian also did a ton of corner work for that line as well.

        I really don’t care if everyone doesn’t want the Flames to draft Brown, but Brown isn’t some “big stiff”, like I said his NHLe pre-draft is better than a handful of the most elite power forwards in the game (Toews, Getzlaf, Perry, Benn, Ladd, etc).

        • EhPierre

          I’m just going to throw out some quotes and you can tell me which ones sound more exciting and tantalizing, okay?

          “Possesses impressive vision and playmaking ability from the outside and has the unique blend of imposing Big Rig size with solid speed although improvement to his first two steps is required.” “Protects the puck very well. He has excellent vision and can make plays at top speed, usually successfully.” “He needs to improve his first step speed but once he hits top speed he can move.”

          “Is able to make smart decisions as he maneuvers through traffic, and his ability to stickhandle in and around a dense field of sticks and skates while knowing exactly where his linemates will be makes him an indefensible threat on the rush. He’s impossible to prepare for, as he can beat you with his playmaking or his heavy shot.” ” Is a dynamic skating offensive catalyst that just produces points. His skating can go from effortless to shifty as he has the ability to use his edges to deke or juke through traffic with ease.”

          I think the second paragraph made your heart beat a little faster, even though they’re just words right? Now imagine getting to see the second paragraph in action night in and night out wearing a Flames jersey on a line with JG. In case you haven’t figured it out, the second paragraph is Nylander.

          Kent even did some analysis on his Brown article and came with the conclusion that Nylander is above Brown in every single category. Nylander also led his team in scoring by 16 points while Brown was behind the team lead by 14 points. Keep in mind, this is Nylanders first OHL season compared to Brown’s second.

          Brown has two flaws to his game: his skating and his shying away from physical contact. He needs to improve his first couple of steps which sadly, it doesn’t matter how much you train, your skating can only improve so much. Monahan is a perfect example. Maybe if Brown went to Gary Roberts camp, he’d be a marginally better skater but he’s not going to improve his skating much. his second real flaw is he doesn’t really engage in physical contact. He’s good at shielding the puck in the corner but he’s not your prototypical power forward. I’m sure most of us throughout this season had a few moments where we get so frustrated when we see Hamilton losing the puck/making a bad play because he’s about to get hit even though he’s generally one of the bigger guys on the ice. I don’t want to go through those emotions again with Brown.

          Nylander has two flaws to his game: his defensive game and his strength. Like any offensive prospect, he needs to work on his two way play, which takes a matter of time. His strength was a concern however, I believe he proved people wrong at the combine and he’s only going to be stronger because the Flames have a great training and medical staff.

          All in all, Nylander has one of the best shots in this draft, his skating is beautiful, and his creativity gets you out of your seat. Brown is big, has good playmaking abilities, and is uh big. I wouldn’t have a problem picking Brown if I was in the middle of the draft but I sure would have a problem picking him at 6 when there are better prospects on the board (Keller, Nylander). Also, Nylander would be able to play in the SHL against men this coming season if he doesn’t make the Flames while Brown has to go back to the OHL. When you’re 6’6″, going back to the OHL playing with kids isn’t really going to develop you so most likely Brown will take 2-3 years before we see him in the Flames jersey, if we make the stupid decision of drafting him.

  • freethe flames

    I listened to an interview with Brown’s coach during the MC and he said that his game came into form once he started playing with Lemieux who is a high end prospect. He said by playing with Lemieux it was only then that Brown realized how hard you had to work to be good and how playing with Lemieux made it easier to go to the tough areas to score.

    • piscera.infada

      I wouldn’t read into that too much. Brandon Byskal is not an accredited member of anything as far as I can tell, he’s just a guy with twitter who was at the ticket-holders luncheon.