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FlamesNation mailbag: TJ or Travis?

The Calgary Flames were going to make a big splash this off-season, as they do every off-season.

Last week, the Michael Frolik and Sam Bennett trade rumours were big. This week, it’s TJ Brodie and Travis Hamonic potentially packing their bags. These moves have been often speculated, but never confirmed, and it’s looking almost certain the Flames are going to lose a big name this off-season.

It is time to trade a defenceman, but youth is only part of the reason.

The Flames need cap space to extend Matthew Tkachuk, and they have two very attractive players in Hamonic and Brodie to sell off. That’s pretty much the entire reason for trading them. The Flames would probably prefer to keep them if they could, but they’re limited in what they can do. With two players who could feasibly leave them for free next season, and with much bigger things taking priority, they’re pretty much backed into this decision.

Young, great defenceman only help ease the transition, but moving out a veteran piece for cap reasons was inevitable.

For my money, Brodie leaves and Hamonic stays.

Hamonic’s the better fit in Calgary, as he can theoretically play up and down the rotation, though it’s never really been tried for a long period of time. He’s also a classical, tough-as-nails, defensive defenceman who also gels well with the modern game. Aside from him, the Flames defencemen are mostly cut from the same cloth: smooth skating, puck moving defencemen. Not to say that one of those categories is good while the other is bad, but it’s nice to have some sort of diversity in playing styles on your team. The Flames certainly value that too, as that’s why they went and traded for him.

Brodie has his qualities, but he’s kind of a rigid piece on the roster. He seems to only work well with Mark Giordano, and struggled with other partners, as the Brodie-Hamonic pairing last season showed. With the emergence of Rasmus Andersson, and the inevitable day where he ascends to the first pairing (which could be as soon as next season), it leaves Brodie mismatched with the rest of the roster. The coaching staff seeming to trust Andersson more than Brodie later in the season is probably pretty indicative of the future.

Not as much as many would hope.

All three players are heading into their 30s and see their contracts expire next season, which are all things teams don’t pony up for. With the risk of these players finally coming over the hill and/or bolting after a year, other NHL teams are going to be wary about paying high prices. The Flames would still be able to get decent assets in return for those players, but you should immediately count out first round picks and A-level prospects.

And I don’t think the Flames are going to ask for much more. Cap space right now is more important right now, as it allows them to get everyone important under contract and then figure out what they can do for the rest of the off-season. They can scoop up a few picks, maybe a prospect or two

To put an actual value on the players, I think the maximum that could be returned for Hamonic and Brodie is a Jake Muzzin-esque package: a first and two B prospects, but toned down a bit as it’s not trade deadline. Anything less than a second and another asset is a disappointment. Frolik is likely packaged with either the first round pick or Sam Bennett for Jason Zucker. If not that specific trade, for a similarly priced player.

I don’t think you can trade Michael Stone. He’s barely played in the past year, and wasn’t very good when he was playing. Even at half retained ($1.75M), why would any team want him? The Flames demonstrated this year that a rookie plucked out of the AHL can do no worse than Stone. With a cap-conscious NHL that favours younger player on cheaper contracts, what’s to stop any other team from trying the same thing?

The Flames would save more money this season by buying him out ($1.167M cap hit for the next two seasons). It’s a better option to open up the cap space than to wait for a trade that’s never going to come.

The Flames hold on Mark Jankowski. He’s making $1.675M and has picked up 30 points in the bottom six. There are plenty of 30 point scorers out there making much more than he does, so they probably feel comfortable with the flaws in his game given how much of the cap he actually takes up.

Jankowski is going to be a case of “it works until it doesn’t.” If he takes a step backwards next season or is made redundant by a promising AHL player, they can bury him and/or release him in the offseason. He occupies the middle ground of being good enough to stick around, but not being good enough to be considered untouchable.

I don’t think they sell on him this off-season, unless the right deal comes along, and he absolutely has to be included. I also don’t think they buy on him and extend his contract considering his so-so body of work thus far.

A prospect drought was also inevitable. Contending teams will have to sell away their future in order to get better in the now. The Flames already began sending off futures in 2015, and they’re likely to sacrifice a few more in the near future.

I think what helps offsets the concerns is that they’ve started to show some aptitude drafting in the later rounds, especially under Brad Treliving. Depending on how the roster breaks down next season, Treliving could see more players he drafted outside of the first round (Rasmus Anderson, Oliver Kylington, Dillon Dube, and Andrew Mangiapane) play for his team than first round players he drafted (Juuso Valimaki, Sam Bennett, and Matthew Tkachuk). They’ve spent the last few drafts looking for hidden gems and players with cosmetic flaws to draft late, and it’s a strategy that’s been working for them, if the early 2018 draft returns are any indication.

I’ll break your heart and say that, yes, UFA signings are probably going to be a method of finding new talent, but not the July 1 kind that (I think) you’re thinking of. In the next few years, we’ll see Treliving go after European players more and more often. He’s already penned three this off-season (Carl-Johan Lerby, Artyom Zagidulin, Alexander Yelesin), was interested in three more (Joakim Nygard, Lean Bergmann, Sergei Andronov), and those are just the ones we’ve heard about so far. He’s going to look under every rock he can.

Treliving will probably target Europe, and undrafted NCAA and CHL players, to help fill gaps from picks traded away. Obviously, they’re never going to find the same talents they would in the draft, and they’re likely to go back to the NHL UFA market at times, but due to the cap crunch, they’re kind of hamstrung. They’re probably betting at least one of them will have a David Rittich-type impact.

    • FLT

      I hope the Flames would do that in a heartbeat. Is it realistic from Vancouver’s perspective? He’s obviously not lived up to expectations but is Van actually shopping him?

    • Baceda

      Why this trade? I’ve seen you mention Virtanen a few times now, I just looked him up and his point totals aren’t nearly as good as I was expecting based on his draft pedigree, 10-15g and 10a each of the last 2 years. But he’s BIG, 226 lbs, is that why you want him? Just curious as to why you’re so keen on him?
      Personally I’d support this trade even though Janko’s numbers are better I’m still not sold on him being a game changer. And I’d definitely welcome Virtanens size if he uses it to play a tough game, which is something Jankowski does not do.

      • The GREAT WW

        The only reason we are talking about Virtanen is because he has not lived up to his draft pedigree.
        But then neither has Jankowski.
        They could both use a change of scenery.

        We need to toughen up…..

        WW

        • T&A4Flames

          Janko was not a top 10 pick. Hard to say he hasn’t lived up to his draft pedigree. 30 points at his age is pretty good. A big smooth skating C who is solid at the PK. Is worth more than just Virtanen. imo.

    • Speed Kills

      I live in Van and get to watch a lot of Canucks/Virtanen. Absolutely Zero to be excited about in this guy,other than taking Really Dumb Penalties..
      Jake Virtanen
      NHL TOTALS ~ 210games, Goals 32, Assts 27, Points 59, +/- -21, Pim 137
      Virtanen’s Pims has put his team on the PK or down a man roughly 50 times more so far.
      Mark Jankowski …
      NHL TOTALS ~ 152games, Goals 31, Assts 26, Points 57, +/- -1, Pim 45
      Played 58 Games Less with basically the same point production but 20 fewer goals against while on the ice.
      No thanks to Virtanen, he is brutal bad.

        • Mitchell

          When looking at the worst GMs in the league right now paul Fenton comes to mind, and minnesota has a terrible contract in victor rask. They already tried trading him out for jack johnson, so it might work out. Less term, less money, younger player whom Peter’s has coached, and he has had his best years under Peter’s. Makes sense for calgary, and minny might need a bit of a boost to reach the cap floor too.

          • Bobby Bitman

            Keep room for Kyle Dubas – he vastly overpaid for Nylander – paid short on term with Matthews and will prob do the same for Marner. “We can and we will” may become “we couldn’t and we didn’t”

  • MDG1600

    So the guy we acquired with a 1st rounder and 2 2nd rounders is now not worth a 1st rounder or an A prospect? The trade for Hamonic would look so much better if we would have had we used the $$$$ available from Hamonics cap friendly contract to sign someone other than James Neal.

    • Baalzamon

      At the time of the trade Hamonic was 27 and had three years left on a great contract. Now he’s 29 and has one year left.

      Term on a low cap hit is worth a lot in trade.

      • Luter 1

        Hamonic did not bring enough for what he cost us, yes he’s a gamer and actually scored a few but for those that think he had a good playoffs, I thought he played very average and coughed up the puck way too many times for a veteran.
        Kulak had a very nice season in Montreal and the Flames had a young improving player that would have looked very good in the 5 position but BT didn’t have the foresight to move a vet and keep young,improving inexpensive players. Brodie should have been gone last year, we would have got more for him and the results wouldn’t have been any worse than maybe a few regular season losses. By playoff time our young guys would have been better for the experience.

        • withachance

          Im personally ok with keeping Vali in the AHL most of the season. Extra seasoning never hurt and he should be a full timer this year with the big club – we can see what happens to 1st rounders who are rushed too quickly from the team up north.

          Brodie should be gone this year though. Makes too much sense on multiple levels. Should be able to recoup some nice assets as well

      • MDG1600

        I don’t disagree with anything you said and I like Hamonic as a player. Just my opinion that it was an unnecessary trade (Flames had a lot of good D prospects at the time of the trade). I am a huge fan of building through the draft and I don’t like that BT is so quick to trade draft picks. Plus – too many people on FN judge everything BT does through rose colored glasses so I don’t think it really hurts to occasionally throw a little criticism his way.

        • Porcupine at a balloon party

          I was not a fan of the hamonic trade at the time and still am not after his resurgence this year. Not that it was a horrible and lop sided deal by any means. Low cap long term certainly goes a long ways, but it was not necessary. Giving up the 11th overall pick hurt also. Tldr: the short term gains (none last year, nominal this year) doesn’t outweigh the long term pain.

        • withachance

          At the time the Flames got Hamonic, the d corps had Kulak, Bartkowski, Stone as relative mainstays. The only good prospect that the Flames had at the time was Andersson, and he wasnt really ready that season. It’s just unfortunate the Flames severely underperformed and didnt get in to the playoffs.

          Asset depreciation is pretty standard and the fact that Hamonic is on an expiring contract doesnt help his trade value, but he’s still a top 4 RHD in the NHL that logs big minutes for the team CURRENTLY. Thats a lot more than what we can do about the 3 draft choices BT sent away.

          Noah Dobson is a stud but has yet to play a single minute of professional hockey. He would not help this team that is beginning to contend.

          • Baalzamon

            The only good prospect that the Flames had at the time was Andersson

            Kylington…

            Also, having Kulak as a regular is hardly an indictment. He’s currently a top four for the Habs.

          • withachance

            Kylington still cant really crack the top 4 on this team now…

            Kulak would not be an automatic starter for this team today. It says more about MTL’s depth at LHD than how good Kulak is. My point is that BT identified that the core of the team was moving towards really making something happen and tried to get a meaningful upgrade with NHL experience in a crucial area of the roster. I can live with not getting Dobson with how good of a fit Hamonic has become. I also think Dobson spends next season in the AHL so he wouldnt even be contributing on the NHL level even if Calgary didnt make the trade.

    • supra steve

      Explain how you make the cap difference work when Hall is re-signed next summer, or is lost with no return.
      Explain who is going to pass the puck to Hall if Gaudreau is gone.
      Otherwise, your idea is top-notch.

        • Tkachuk'sLisp

          Doesn’t help when the bigger guys, who should be able to play (or at least keep up with) heavy hockey, he plays with completely disappear.

          Kid was almost a point a game player in the playoffs in his rookie season. He’s not going to carry a line full of guys who aren’t doing anything to help contribute.

        • idbr

          Most of the team ran out of gas in the weeks leading up to the playoffs. I think the reasons for that should be addressed in preparation for next year. We’re lucky to have a guy like Johnny on our team. He’s competitive, hard working, and entertaining to watch. I’ve watched years of boring “Calgary Flames” hockey and finally can enjoy some guys with skill. 82 boring games to watch before playoffs does not cut it for me. A few hard-nosed, fast, goal scorers to complement Johnny would be helpful. By the way Gaudreau has 12 playoff points next to Hall’s 6.

        • The Red Knight

          Johnny doesn’t need to play heavy,he’s not heavy ,he’s the straw that stirrs the drink , it’s the number 1centre Monahan that needs to grow a backbone !

  • Kzak

    As I mentioned in a previous post, Travis specifically asked to be traded out west. Add that along with the fact he’s become a fan favourite and he’s now part of a Cup contending team, I think he’d be more than happy to stay in Calgary for the long term.

    • Raffydog

      Cup contending team? I thought he played for the Flames. Or do you mean they will trade him to a cup contending team? Cause he will never win a cup here.

    • super6646

      Yes, and that doesn’t mean it’s a good idea for us to sign him longterm. Physical defensemen who aren’t great skaters don’t typically age well into their 30s… cough cough regehr and Karl alzner as two examples. I’d be very careful given our lack of speed on the right side if we move Brodie and the amount of bad contracts on the team already.

        • super6646

          I’m sorry man, but we didn’t watch the same series, and the stat sheet doesn’t agree with that sentiment either:

          0 pts, 34.68CF%, -11CFR%, 29.79%XGF, 1 GF, 10 GA, -5

          I’m lukewarm on advanced analytics, but that’s a lot of gross numbers. Hanifin wasn’t any better, but those two killed us in the series.

          • wot96

            I hadn’t realized that hamonic’s numbers were that bad. Is it him or Hanifin?

            I wasn’t happy with Hanifin this year. I know he is young but I’m still waiting to see the potential others see. Offence, sure. But defensively suspect. Sound familiar?

  • Trevy

    I still think there’s a fit for Neal to go to Ottawa. They need to hit the cap floor and need veteran leadership. We may have to throw in a sweetener, same case as Tor with Marleau, but there’s a deal there if you’re creative

    • The GREAT WW

      The problem is that almost every team has an overplayed veteran leadership player like Neal who they can ship to Ottawa “to hit the cap floor”.
      So Ottawa has the pick of the crop and can make asking price sky high…

      WW

    • Kevin R

      Still think Frolik is good value for a team like Ottawa at the actual salary is like 3.0 mill & cap hit is 4.3mill & then package Stone & even eat 50% of his salary & take back Craig Anderson to back up Rittch next year. Killing several birds with one stone so to speak & forgive the pun.

  • Rockmorton65

    My only concern in trading Brodie is if either Andersson doesn’t step up as a full time top pair or Gio finally starts regressing, the D could unravel pretty quick.

  • freethe flames

    IMO if all you are being offered for TJ and Hamonic is a 2nd rounder you hold onto them until the trade deadline and see what they are worth then. I’m okay with moving Frolik for a second rounder. While we could use the cap space of moving either of the two defenders I think it would be a bad idea to sell that low on them.

    • Sterls

      Can a team that intends to contend really do that though? If either of them are around come the start of the season, they are a piece that will be needed down the stretch. If TJ/Hamonic is still playing a role on our right side, even if it has dropped down to 3RD, trading one of them at the deadline would disrupt the D and makes us worse not better. Better to trade in the summer, find his replacement, and let the D solidify over the season. Deadline subtractions are hard to pull off for teams that are trying to contend.

      • Kevin R

        Tough scenario & there are quite a few teams looking for 2nd pairing Dmen. We should absolutely be able to get better than a 2nd for either of them. Otherwise, buyout Stone, sign Rittch as cheap as possible, roll the dice with Gilles backing him up & trade one of them at the TDL. Asset management dictates you would need to sell one of them & not let both of them walk next summer.

    • withachance

      They were saying 2nd round pick is part of a package. Also the fact that both of them are on expiring contracts will play into negotiations. Conditional picks will be involved as well.

    • Puck Head

      BT would keep Neal for another year to see if he can turn things around before he would trade a potential gem like Kylington just to dump Neal. The best thing to do with Kylington is to get him enough ice time to see how he looks. If he excels we can keep him and move someone else or, alternatively, jack up his trade value to get a better return. I don’t think Kylington has much trade value because he has not been given a chance to prove himself yet. The guy has the tools to be a great D-man.

      • Tkachuk'sLisp

        Kylington is a huge question mark. The potential is there and I’m interested to see if the Flames hang on to him and see how he matures or if they dump him for something else. I’m excited to follow his career because I personally feel like he’s going to be a great offensive defenseman.

  • Tkachuk'sLisp

    Flyers got Hayes for a 5th. Wonder if Tre kicked tires with the Jets for the rights to negotiate. No telling if Hayes would’ve signed in Calgary, but he’s a player I’d like the Flames to have.

    • Puck Head

      Is this a joke? If not, the Jets got robbed. The Jet’s must really have wanted to move him to sell him so low. Is there something wrong with Hayes that we’re not aware of?

      • withachance

        Hayes was never going to sign in WPG, they dont have the cap room. WPG just got a free pick in a deep draft for an asset that was going to leave anyways. Total win for the Jets, win for PHI if they can get Hayes to sign before Jul 1

      • Tkachuk'sLisp

        Nope. Not a joke. He might’ve indicated that he wasn’t going to sign in Winnipeg. Better to get something for him than lose him for free in FA.

        If that’s the case, then the Jets got a free pick.

    • freethe flames

      You make this sound like the first time that teams have paid a minimal fee in order to have access to a player who is about to be a free agent. Phi paid a 5th rounder for two extra weeks to try and sign Hayes; he may just flip them the bird and wait for FA; he may sign as well. Would I trade a late pick to have the inside track on the right; maybe. But with as few picks as we have probably not.

      • fretsey

        Jets gave up a 1st,Brendan Lemieux and conditional 4th in 2022 for Hayes…letting him go for a 5th is just horrible asset management regardless of whether Phily signs him. Better than nothing but still….yeesh

        • SGRietzey

          I wouldn’t call that horrible asset management. It was an overpayment, sure, as rentals usually are – but at the time, they also made the trade in the anticipation that a) they’d have made a deep run, b) Hayes would’ve been a key contributor like Stastny had been the prior year, and possibly c) they’d get him re-signed. Had even say two of those happened, the trade looks less onerous. None of those things happened, obviously and I’m guessing indicated he’d be exploring free agency, so if anything it’s sound asset management to flip him and get some form of asset back. That asset won’t be major, as most teams wouldn’t rush to offer a 1st rounder back in exchange for the extra couple weeks of negotiation with a 2C/RW they can sign for free July 1st.

  • freethe flames

    If the Flames got 2nd’s for TJ (which would be the least I would think he is worth) and 2nd for Frolik and had the almost $9m in cap space and then add the $2.3 in cap space fro buying out Stone BT would have room to make moves; the problem is his record of signing FA is not the greatest. I would be okay with him adding Connolly and Donskoi for a combined $6.5m which would seriously improve our RW side and add some physicality to our forward ranks. Neither would be the legit top 6 RW we would want but they would be an improvement.

    • Kass - Brought to you by BTF 2.0

      So a team would be willing to give up a 2nd for Frolik? Even though he’s averaged under 30 points the last 2 years, is 31 years old and makes 4.3 mil.? Why wouldn’t that team just sign one of the better, younger, RW for the 3.25 mil. avg. that you suggest?

      FN seems to undervalue Brodie and overvalue Frolik. Brodie has trade value – Frolik is a salary dump.

    • withachance

      The thing is it’s hard to acquire a ready made top 6 player that’s consistent – those guys come with a price. I think BT has either got to use Brodie and Frolik as pieces to get upgrades in the lineup, or flip the assets he receives from those guys for the right player.

      UFAs like Connolly and Donskoi is hit or bust. They could explode like Lindholm and have a career year with better players, or be the 40 point players they’ve been.

      • Tkachuk'sLisp

        They wouldn’t be bringing either of them in thinking that they could explode offensively. They’re both 27 so they are what they are at this point in their careers.

      • freethe flames

        It often takes players several years in the NHL to take the next step and sometimes you have to be willing to let them grow and take a chance that they can find their role; by 27 you should have a pretty good idea of what a guys ceiling is. It took Connolly a number of years and few pit stops along the way but he has become a solid 2 way RW who would help the Flames.

          • freethe flames

            Johnny/Monny/Connolly
            Tkachuk/Lindy/(Mangiapane/Dube/Janko)
            Bennett/Backs/Donskoi
            (Mangiapane/Dube/Janko)/Ryan/Hathaway
            (Mangiapane/Dube/Janko) as your 13th froward.
            I think that would be a solid line up.

  • freethe flames

    So if the choice was between a Brodie for Kadri deal straight across or a Frolik+ for Zucker; which deal would you make? Trash for TJ/Kadri, Cheers for Frolik/Zucker.

    • Trevy

      I would do Brodie for Kadri any day. However, the whole reason why Tor and Cal are supposedly dangling these players is to get cap relief. By doing a straight across swap, it doesn’t solve their cap problem, just their positional need. Tor, as a matter of fact, would be worse off cap wise if they did this trade. The only way I see it happening is if they got rid of Marleau and Zaitsev and took no contracts back. They need to sign Marner, Johansson and Kapenan and don’t have near the cap space to do it

      • withachance

        TOR have a cap problem because if they resigned all of their forwards, they would have zero room to get improvements on their back end.

        They are going to trade Brown and maybe Zaitsev, trust me they’ll have room to sign Marner Kapanen/Johnsson. The problem is I dont think they want Brodie

        • Trevy

          How are they going to do that? They have $9 mill in cap space to sign all 3 forwards. Marner alone is more. If they traded Zaitsev for just picks, that’s still not enough and they would still have to replace him as he’s only 1 of 5 dmen signed. Even if they traded Marleau, it’s going to be very tight

      • freethe flames

        How could the leafs want more for their problem child. Just reread Christian’s points he suggests that it is Frolik and Bennett or our 1st rounder for Zucker; if that is on the table I would not walk away but run away. Zucker would add some O but he does really check all the other boxes especially at over $5m a season.

  • meat1

    I would really like to see Hamonic stay. Frolik and Brodie should be traded and I think both will land a second rounder plus….however I’m not real excited at these B prospects that are potentially included to make the trade look better. I remember the B prospects that came in the Iggy trade and they honestly amounted to nothing. I would prefer a second AND third or fourth round pick instead. Our scouts have truly done well mining talent at those stages in the drafts recently.

      • deantheraven

        I’m with you, PH. I’ve always imagined Brodie turning into a pick that gets traded for a prospect that turns into a star, a la Joe Who and Iggy.
        Everything points to the coming gap in prospects through traded picks. Correction in the trend will require a restocking in the short term. BT might see European replacements for the prospect pool, but they’re a couple years older than the crop of the next two drafts. The Tradeables will be available for draft picks next month. Some of them should be packaged for an upgrade at forward. I expect he’ll be doing a little of both in the short term. If it doesn’t work out, you can bet at least one of Brodie, Frolik and Jankowski will move next Feb.

  • Puck Head

    Here’s an interesting read on some older players who will be back in the draft this year. Some intriguing prospects who would be worth trying if they’re still available in the 3rd round.

    New and Improved: Five prospects re-entering the draft who are worth taking a chance on – TheHockeyNews

  • deantheraven

    For some reason I had buying out Stone as a bad idea. Dunno what I was thinking but it was most likely discounted for sentimental reasons. I was deeply affected by the news of his blood clot having gone through it, and to be honest I was completely convinced his playing days were over. His comeback, however triumphant for him personally, gave nothing to the team but for another body and contract that the team didn’t need. Seeing the math here was a light bulb. Now I see a buyout as the best for everyone.A mil and change should be easy to find when the above mentioned names find new homes, and Stone would be free to seek another shot at a full comeback elsewhere.

  • everton fc

    I believe Brodie has more value than many here seem to believe. I also can’t see us moving Hamonic. However, without them both, we have Gio, Andersson, Valimaki, Hanifin, Kylington, and Stone. I think Kylington may be ready. I am not sure the organization likes Kylington as much as some of the other young defenders. If we move Brodie and keep Hamonic, buy out Stone and resign Fantenberg… Then Kylington could be in and out, with Fantenberg (not sure how the pairings would work – could Valimaki and Kylington be paired together?)

    • freethe flames

      If you trade Frolik for a second which I find acceptable and buyout Stone you add $6.6m to your cap space. That shouldallow you to get everyone on the team signed and add a back up goalie and a mid level top 6 forward. That does not include anyone else you might move as part of a deal.

  • Getpucksdeep

    I like Pat Steinberg. He works hard and tries to be objective, he can be self effacing, a good quality. I’m astounded at what they seem convinced of this afternoon IE “Toronto would be a good trade partner for a defenseman.”

    IF there is no other move made to free up about 5-6 million in cap space first, then any such trade makes no sense for iether team. TO has a worse cap problem than we do. Treliving if nothing else has been really good at cap management so unless he has a rabbit up his sleeve that frees up space, why would Calgary “swap” cap with TO?

    My surprise at the guys on the radio as I was driving home was that they for all their work, they really aren’t up on which teams have what space and what needs. Remember no one including the experts saw Hamilton coming here. No one ” saw Hamonic coming ( it was a full year after that news story about him wanting to move closer to home) No one saw Hanafin and Lindholm coming either. Every move TO has to make HAS to be to make cap space. I’d be very surprised if Calgary and TO made a “hockey trade”.

    • freethe flames

      The thing about the radio guys is they almost work for the team and need to tow the party line; or at least that is how it comes across. The big issue I have with the lot of them is they portray themselves as experts or insiders and many of there insights are sometimes less useful than what some of us on this site.

    • withachance

      I mean if they did a 1 for 1 swap, of say Brodie for Kadri, both teams make upgrades on areas of need and still have room to sign RFAs they need to sign. TOR and CGY both have to dump cap anyways regardless of any other trades. It does make sense.

      TOR can sign Kapanen, Johnsson and Marner at relative market value with their current cap space. Like barely though. They’re also looking to offload Zaitsev as well. Calgary has more than enough space to sign Tkachuk Bennett and Rittich, with room to bring back Hath and Fanta on cheap deals with current cap. Gotta buy out Stone.

  • freethe flames

    I don’t understand the willingness of basically giving TJ away. He is a top 4 defender on most teams and has had 6 seasons in a row of 30 or more points and they have not all been propped up by Gio, The year we got to the second round and Gio was injured he was our best defender propping up Engs playing with a high ankle sprain, Despite his flaws and he has them he is worth more than a single second rounder. If you move him just for a 2nd rounder you get cap space of $4.65m enough to add one middle 6 FA forward; so that signing had better work out and be more benefical than TJ to the team. Whereas if you move Frolik for a second you save $4.3m and he is likely replaced from within and losing him has less of an impact on the team. I am not opposed to trading TJ but unless you get an NHL caliber player back and some cap space or more than 1 second and the cap space then you are selling low on a Top 4 NHL defenceman.

    • withachance

      Brodie is going to be replaced from within as well. Ras is going to take that top RHD spot. Brodie has the highest trade value on this team out of players that are actually tradeable. He’s either going to give BT some nice cap space + picks/prospects to flip at the draft, or a top 6 forward return.

      Cant get without giving

      • freethe flames

        So what would be wrong with Ras having another half year of development going between Valimaki and Gio? And then having the job full time at the TDL if the offer for TJ is not up to snuff. TJ has to be worth more than a 2nd and would definately be worth the TDL.

        • withachance

          I think Brodie has more value now. One whole year with a playoff team is much better than a quarter of a season.

          And the Flames are contending, they’re not going to sell at the TDL. Trading Brodie now gives BT a chance to upgrade on the top 6 at the draft or after.

    • Tkachuk'sLisp

      I’ve said that the return for Brodie should be a 1st +. He’s a top pairing in the league and his numbers back that up. He’s also on an amazing contract for filling that role albeit for only one more year.

      • freethe flames

        If he does not get you a first rounder he should be able to get you at least 2 second rounders and fringe NHLer who does or will not cost a lot or a guy that still has some upside. There are probably plenty of teams where he would be a good fit and the team has the cap space for him. The example that continues to come to mind for me is Montreal; his skating alone would make him a good partner for Webber and the speed game they want to play. So a deal I could see is a flip of first rounders; us moving to 15 and them to 26 and us getting their later 2nd rounder. With the Rangers us getting Buschnevich and a 2nd pick for Brodie. Maybe 2 seconds from NJ. But as suggested by the author and many others to think that BT would settle for just a second rounder just seems like such an undervaluation of a Top 4 defender.

        • withachance

          The article didnt say JUST a second. Its going to be a second plus an NHLer and a B+ prospect most likely. The expiring contract is a big factor for GMs. For your scenario, it’d most likely be 2 2nd rounders, with one being conditional on re-signing