Flames Waive Ivanans

Kent Wilson
October 19 2011 10:42AM

 

 

Flames announced today they have placed enforcer Raitis Ivanans on waivers, likely with the intent to send him down to the Abbotsford Heat.

There is lots of good news here. First, that Ivanans is healthy enough to play hockey again. However you feel about the use of pure enforcers or his contract in particular, in human terms it's good that Ivanans is back on his feet.

It's also good that Feaster has decided to limit the roster to just one puglisit. I'd prefer none, but, one is better than two for now I suppose.

The best case scenario is Ivanans is picked up off waivers by another club so the big guy doesn't go down to the Heat and take ice time away from a more useful prospect. It's certainly possible since Brian McGrattan was recently scooped off of the waiver wire, although a fighter who was KO'd in his game and recently spent more than a calender year on IR probably won't attract a lot of attention.

39d8109299a9795cb3b41a4e9b49d501
Former Nations Overlord. Current FN contributor and curmudgeon For questions, complaints, criticisms, etc contact Kent @ kent.wilson@gmail. Follow him on Twitter here.
Avatar
#1 SickFloBro
October 19 2011, 10:48AM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Props
0
props

That's actually fantastic news. Glad to hear the guy is well enough to play. Though, I'm a little disappointed that we didn't get to see him play a bit more. Still, it's great that he has recovered.

Avatar
#2 Colin
October 19 2011, 10:49AM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Props
0
props

I didn't care for the signing last year, still don't this year, I hope the best for the guy as that was a nasty concusion that he got. I also hope for the best as I care about the heat and the heat don't need this guy.

Avatar
#3 Justin Azevedo
October 19 2011, 10:56AM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Props
0
props
SickFloBro wrote:

That's actually fantastic news. Glad to hear the guy is well enough to play. Though, I'm a little disappointed that we didn't get to see him play a bit more. Still, it's great that he has recovered.

you mean you are dissapointed you didn't get to see him in the penalty box more, correct?

and yes, while it is good he has made a full recovery, he sucks.

Avatar
#4 Super_Gio
October 19 2011, 11:11AM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Props
0
props

Good God he's huge. It's good to see he's recovered but we don't need him.

Avatar
#5 otto
October 19 2011, 11:19AM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Props
0
props

Glad to see that Ivanans is healthy enough to play hockey again,but I hope his carer as an enforcer is over.If I was a coach I would not feel comfortable sending him out to fight and if I was a player I don't think I would fight him.Nobody wants to be the guy who cripples somebody.

Avatar
#6 Robert Vollman
October 19 2011, 11:31AM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Props
0
props

Maybe the Kings will take him back.

Fight record

2006-07 5-7-2

2007-08 8-2-2

2008-09 7-2-4

2009-10 7-1-6

He beats up George Parros and Jody Shelley at least once a year, eventually learned how to beat Laraque, and has bested the likes of Jacques, Carcillo and Stortini.

I'm no fan of hockey-challenged enforcers either, but he was one of the league's better ones for 3 years prior to the Flames.

Avatar
#7 icedawg_42
October 19 2011, 11:32AM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Props
0
props

Yeah - I wish him all the best, just not here. Take P3L with you.

Avatar
#9 Brent G.
October 19 2011, 11:52AM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Props
0
props

Jesus that guy is massive.

Avatar
#10 jeremywilhelm
October 19 2011, 11:55AM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Props
0
props

@Robert Vollman

Bested the likes of Jacques the human bandaid, Zach "huggybear" Stortini and Carcillo the human rat? Those aren't accomplishments. I could beat those three myself

Avatar
#11 Kevin R
October 19 2011, 11:56AM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Props
0
props

Frig! When are you guys going to let it go. The NHL has not changed the rules, there are cheap dirty hits in games every week & Shanahan reviews hits for possible suspensions weekly. The NHL "has not" changed the rules & we need a tough guy. I dont know what the big deal is, these guys like Ivanans & PL3 are not cap inhibiting, they can sit in the press box & be called upon in a snap, they neutralize guys that need to be neutralized on other teams. And there are a lot of teams with guys that need to be neutralized, i can list them if you want. As a fan attending the game, I can tell you right now there is an electricty & roar when two big guys drop the gloves & cheering after a great fight. That my friends sounds like an entertainment factor. & dont tell me it isnt there because I'm at the games. In fact, in some games Ive been to, when the team cant make simple breakouts & simple passes let alone create a scoring chance, a good fight is the hi light of the friggin period. It's part of the game, it always has been, get over it, it is what it is.

Avatar
#13 jeremywilhelm
October 19 2011, 12:15PM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Props
1
props

Guys who can fight and still play hockey are awesome. Guys who can't play hockey are an insult to hockey and a waste of my time.

Avatar
#14 marty
October 19 2011, 12:34PM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Props
0
props

Ya i agree i like hockey when it is from the emotion of the game and done by people who can contribute good mins, Ivanans got caught it can happen in any form of fighting. all that being said glad he won't be taking mins up here and hope we can find a home for pl3. nothing against he guy but his 3 mins could be used up by someone with a little more value. still pissed they gave up a 5th for him.

Avatar
#15 Monaertchi Gaudnett
October 19 2011, 12:35PM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Props
0
props

@Kevin R

"they neutralize guys that need to be neutralized on other teams. And there are a lot of teams with guys that need to be neutralized, i can list them if you want."

I'd rather you enlighten me as to WHY they need to be neutralized, in your opinion, HOW that will actually happen, and how it would PREVENT any injuries.

"I can tell you right now there is an electricty & roar when two big guys drop the gloves & cheering after a great fight. That my friends sounds like an entertainment factor."

Sure the drunken mob in the stands cheers. It's lowest common denominator entertainment.

"when the team cant make simple breakouts & simple passes let alone create a scoring chance, a good fight is the hi light of the friggin period."

Maybe if there were more NHL calibre play makers and fewer dancing bears who can barely skate there would be more successful passes and scoring chances. Having 4 lines of NHLers will give you better hockey because they would only have to play 15 minutes a night each, instead of 19 minutes each plus 3 minutes per game for the hired goon line. They're not as tired, not as injury prone, and still fresh for the playoffs.

Hey Kent, is the new version of Flames Nation going to get an UnProp button?

Avatar
#16 Greg
October 19 2011, 12:46PM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Props
0
props

@Kent Wilson

I agree, although I suspect they do "neutralize guys" only in the sense they neutralize other "enforcers". If I was going into a game where the other team had a fighter in the lineup, I'd probably feel better knowing we had one too, and he can dance with other goon so I don't have to worry about who will. But that's it. The only reason to have a goon on the roster is because the other teams have a goon on their roster. If every team agreed to stop putting one on their roster, no one would need one anymore. "Cheap shots" can and should be dealt with through supplementary discipline, not ineffectual vigilantes who just lower the average skill level.

Avatar
#17 Domebeers.com
October 19 2011, 12:47PM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Props
0
props

Nothing personal Kent, but I saw this and I cant help it.

This point "I find watching two enforcers fight to be a boring waste of time." is invalidated by this one "I frankly don't care about your personal tastes for the entertainment value of hockey."

I understand what you are trying to say, but I think if you dismiss out of hand the value added to entertainment factor that a fight brings, you are being stubborn.

The other thing is if enforcers work, how would you see it? How do you see cheap shots not taken? Do they keep stats on hits taken by particular players? I don't think they do but would be happy to be provided a link. I think you are asking for an amount of work that nobody has any economic motive to do, which is why it probably hasn't been proven (or disproven).

Avatar
#18 Domebeers.com
October 19 2011, 01:03PM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Props
0
props

@Monaertchi Gaudnett

"I'd rather you enlighten me as to WHY they need to be neutralized, in your opinion, HOW that will actually happen, and how it would PREVENT any injuries."

If you need someone to explain to you why enforcer...Sigh.

If you ever playes sports, you would know that some kids on the playground are better than others, and that those others will try to hurt the kid who is better because it gives them a chance to win they might not otherwise have.

Following? Good. Because this dynamic exists, you put a big guy on the roster. Do I need to explain this, too? Well, the big kid on the playground is bigger than the other kids, and if the other kids hit the kid who is better, then they get beat up by the big kid.

Now because people dont enjoy getting beat up, they will modify their behaviour, and not try to hit or injure the kid who is better. Because the kid who is better doesn't need to worry about getting hit, he has more focus available to use on being better than everyone else. Everyone good here?

Avatar
#19 Kevin R
October 19 2011, 02:00PM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Props
0
props
Kent Wilson wrote:

they neutralize guys that need to be neutralized on other teams

Prove it. No one who forwards this theory has every shown me that fighters prevent cheap shots in the modern NHL. Not once. This is the semi-plausible assumption people use to justify the existence of pure goons, but on one who proffers it ever bothers to see if it actually happens outside of anecdote or two.

What I can prove to you, however, is that pugilists cost their team shots against, penalties against and goals against. You know, the stuff that actually determines wins and loses.

As for fights being fun in a boring game, well I frankly don't care about your personal tastes for the entertainment value of hockey. Not insofar as that is a reason for or against dressing a fighter. Myself, I find watching two enforcers fight to be a boring waste of time. I prefer players who can play the game at an NHL level, frankly.

Haha. Thats good. I guess I could turn it around on you & ask you to prove it doesnt. & to dispute your statement that pugilists costs their teams shots against, penalties & goals, I would say in the majority of cases offsetting majors are given to both pugilists. A pugilist unchecked will intimidate and impact the play of smaller more talented players. I think I have heard the term of teams not having that physical team toughness as to reasons why a team may lose games or a series.

I respect the fact you dont enjoy watching 2 big guys duking it out. Thats fine, head to the concessions when a fight breaks out but dont condemn the other 19000 fans at the Saddledome for enjoying a good scrap, no matter how mentally archaic you think we are. I dont & many others around me dont think it's boring.

Avatar
#20 SickFloBro
October 19 2011, 02:14PM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Props
0
props

@Justin Azevedo

I mean I like a good tilt as much as the next guy. It would have been nice to actually see him manhandle someone...to earn his money. :P Because AHL or NHL, we're still paying him. I'd rather see that cash on the ice making opponents' faces bloody.

Avatar
#21 JF
October 19 2011, 03:21PM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Props
1
props

"to dispute your statement that pugilists costs their teams shots against, penalties & goals, I would say in the majority of cases offsetting majors are given to both pugilists."

They aren't costing their teams shots against, penalties against and goals against when they're sitting in the box for fighting... they're costing the team such when they're on the ice with their poor actual hockey play. Not to mention that because they're so awful they only get played a few minutes a game meaning that other guys have to play more to cover the slack meaning that they'll be more tired/prone to injury later in the game/season.

Really the Flames didn't have an enforcer all of last year and I didn't notice any more or less dirty play against us then any year where the Flames did have a dancing bear on the roster. I can't prove it statistically but i doubt goons have any effect at all... maybe psychologically but if that's the case I think hockey moms ought to take away their kids security blankets earlier since it's obviously turned into a problem later in life.

Avatar
#22 Tach
October 19 2011, 05:18PM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Props
0
props
Domebeers.com wrote:

Nothing personal Kent, but I saw this and I cant help it.

This point "I find watching two enforcers fight to be a boring waste of time." is invalidated by this one "I frankly don't care about your personal tastes for the entertainment value of hockey."

I understand what you are trying to say, but I think if you dismiss out of hand the value added to entertainment factor that a fight brings, you are being stubborn.

The other thing is if enforcers work, how would you see it? How do you see cheap shots not taken? Do they keep stats on hits taken by particular players? I don't think they do but would be happy to be provided a link. I think you are asking for an amount of work that nobody has any economic motive to do, which is why it probably hasn't been proven (or disproven).

How many fewer Flames wins are you willing to see in exchange for watching dancing bears fight?

Put another way, lets say that the tradeoff for the Flames making the playoffs was that they had to cut the number of fights they got into by 75%. Is that tradeoff worth it? What about 100%? What about 25%?

In all cases, I will take wins over fights.

Avatar
#23 Jeff In Lethbridge
October 19 2011, 05:53PM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Props
0
props

when the fight starts, I stay seated.... not only a bore, but kind of gross in my opinion. Hockey should be about hockey... if I wanted bloody injuries, I would watch MMA (I don't).

that being said, I really miss the days when the flames were hard to play against and teams did not like to play here because they knew they would have to pay dearly for any points they managed to leave the dome with. I doub that teams fear the Flames this way any more, and in fact probably look forward to playing the Flames.

Still - Flames fan for life, GO FLAMES!

Avatar
#24 clyde
October 19 2011, 07:05PM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Props
0
props

The Flames have been push overs all year. PL3, in his 1st game stood up early and every player knew that bullying by Eager would not be allowed and all of a sudden Calgary players played much tougher. If you have played, you know the value of a quality enforcer.

Avatar
#25 ChinookArch
October 19 2011, 08:07PM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Props
0
props

That guys guns are almost as big as mine. Come to think of it, I need to do my 200 reps now. http://mimg.ugo.com/201101/0/7/3/162370/cuts/anchorman-manofsteel2_528_poster.jpg

Avatar
#26 Monaertchi Gaudnett
October 20 2011, 07:53AM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Props
0
props
Domebeers.com wrote:

"I'd rather you enlighten me as to WHY they need to be neutralized, in your opinion, HOW that will actually happen, and how it would PREVENT any injuries."

If you need someone to explain to you why enforcer...Sigh.

If you ever playes sports, you would know that some kids on the playground are better than others, and that those others will try to hurt the kid who is better because it gives them a chance to win they might not otherwise have.

Following? Good. Because this dynamic exists, you put a big guy on the roster. Do I need to explain this, too? Well, the big kid on the playground is bigger than the other kids, and if the other kids hit the kid who is better, then they get beat up by the big kid.

Now because people dont enjoy getting beat up, they will modify their behaviour, and not try to hit or injure the kid who is better. Because the kid who is better doesn't need to worry about getting hit, he has more focus available to use on being better than everyone else. Everyone good here?

Nope. Not good here. Your attempt to make me feel stupid or humiliated by using a childish playground metaphor has not worked.

First of all, we're not talking about 9 year olds, we're talking about grown men. It's quite a bit different talking about a child who is 100% larger than the other kids and who can easily catch them and easily beat them up, as opposed to grown men whose difference in size and strength is much less than 100% even at the maximum.

How often does a large goon actually fight (or even hip check) a smaller cheap shot artist? Goons fight Goons, so unless the goons are delivering the cheap shots, there is no PREVENTative benefit to PL3 or Ivanans. there is also no significant offensive or defensive benefit. What does that leave us with?

I'm all for guys standiung up for themselves and their teammates, but I'm not for guys whose only purpose is to fight other guys whose only purpose is to fight back. If I want to see that I'll watch boxing or mma (which I do).

Avatar
#27 Monaertchi Gaudnett
October 20 2011, 08:02AM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Props
0
props

@Kevin R

"A pugilist unchecked will intimidate and impact the play of smaller more talented players. I think I have heard the term of teams not having that physical team toughness as to reasons why a team may lose games or a series."

Again, how does PL3 or Ivanans intimidate a smaller, more talented player when he can't even catch them as they fly past him to score a goal? Smaller, more talented players don't get into fights with goons EVER, so why in the eff would they be intimidated by them.

"Oh no, my goon is getting punched in the face by their goon, just like he's paid to do! I feel so bad now that already ran that guy into the boards. Too bad that the blood of the goon won't cure his high ankle sprain."

Do you think Van would have won the cup if they'd had Ivanans on the team? Do you think he would have dressed for a single game in the playoffs, let alone the final round?

Comments are closed for this article.