Flames trade Bourque for Cammalleri

As many of you already know, the Flames have reacquired Mike Camalleri from the Montreal Canadiens in exchange for Rene Bourque.

Also involved in the deal are Flames former 7th round pick Patrick Holland and their 2013 2nd rounder. Montreal packaged goalie Kari Ramo and the Habs 5th rounder. Pertinent salary info – Cammalleri is signed for two more seasons after this one at a 6.0M per year cap hit. Rene Bourque’s deal runs until 2015 2016 and is worth 3.063M 3.33M per season (thanks for the corrections Rosscreek). So Calgary gets the more expensive guy, but the contract is two years shorter.

We will have a more detailed analysis of how this impacts the Flames upcoming. For now, welcome back Mike!

  • amaninvan

    Feaster where is Pk in the deal? I would have been ok with Moss Stagen JayBo and Rene for Cami and Pk. If I had advice for Pk,I would suggest saying something nasty about the organization you play for!!!!

  • amaninvan

    I heard Pat on Overtime, and I completely agree with him. This isn’t a bad trade per se, heck I’m happy Cammys back. But whats the direction of this team?? They traded a decent prospect whos playing very well in the WHL, and a 2nd round pick. This is a win for the Flames in terms of hockey, but it’s what the trade symbolizes that I have a problem with. This deal proves that the Flames are only concerned with ‘making the dance’. The 8th seed is the goal for the Flames. This trade shows a ‘win now’ attitude for a team that is a mediocre team. If this team was an elite team, like Vancouver or Boston or Philly, I would be 100% with the trade. This team is acting like their one player away, and their not.

    This deal worries me because it seems like the Flames are completely in ‘making the playoffs’ mode.

  • CitizenFlame

    I really like the trade. Calgary finally got the best player in the trade. I think Bourque will fit in well with what the Habs are doing so I don’t think that they lost the deal outright.

    For everybody who believes that the only option is a whole sale scorched earth rebuild a la Edmonton I ask this. What do you think Bourque was worth? I think Calgary got full value in this trade. Yes Cammi is double the cap hit but the term is shorter. Calgary did not need another former 20 goal reclamation project. At least with Cammi he is a proven 30 goal player and his best season was in Calgary.

    Top two lines:
    GlenX-Olli_Iggy
    Tanguay-Backlund-Cammi

    Looks good to me.

    Now to start shoring up the ‘D’.

    • the forgotten man

      There is no money left to shore up anything – in cap terms Jay is broke and actually may “owe” money with the Cammi deal. That said, I haven’t checked CNR stock lately…maybe it is up and Edwards will swallow Stajan/Badsuck contracts giving Jay a get out of Jail card…there may be another shoe to drop and my biggest worry is Jay will dump more salary at the cost of high round draft picks a la Kotaleech to Buffalo.

      • CitizenFlame

        I haven’t had time to check capgeek or numbers.com but I think with the expiring contracts Flames should have maneuverability. Why is this deal so diametrically opposed to the rebuild process? Who in the pipeline is ready to make the jump to NHL? Baertschi (I have no idea how to spell his name) maybe next year. Everyone keeps talking about how great this draft year is, so is there a real difference between drafting 10th overall or20th overall? The second round pick hurts but I think Feaster can recoup that at the deadline. That would be his goal I think. Again, I ask what do you think Bourque was worth if you traded strictly for picks & prospects? I think the value was better here. Obviously because that was the deal made. One thing about Feaster, I honestly think that he shops around first.

  • the forgotten man

    Wow, strap on the Speedo because things are gonna get interesting…

    Flames had 2 ways to go…firesale and start re-building or double-down with what they have and go for broke. Long term, Cammy trade makes no sense and only “kicks the can down the road”.

    However, if the Flames are truly one or two players from contending then this move makes sense.

    A real cynical take is that maybe King was hearing a few to many grumbles from his season ticket base and it wasn’t looking like a 97% renewal next year and pulled Jay’s panic button to cut a good short term PR deal.

    I have no idea where this Team is headed – my wife during her period makes more sense??

    At least short term, we know K & J are going for broke, so we may as well kick back and enjoy the ride!

  • Greg

    I don’t understand this “going in te wrong direction” ideas. And I’m a guy who thinks the flames do need to rebuild. But really, holland is a career 4th liner at best. A 2nd round pick is what, 15% chance of getting a (likely marginal) player. Meanwhile cammalleri is younger than Bourque and his contract ends 2 years earlier. And we got what sounds like a potential starter in the post-kipper era, which quite frankly probably offsets the 2nd rounder. That to me sounds very inline with the stated flames direction… Get younger, stay competitive.

    Also, it’s a clear win in hockey terms. If I were a habs fan I’d be pretty ticked off right now.

    • Truculence

      I agree, and would like to add that we can easily reclaim a second, maybe even a first if Cammy lights it up here, when Cammy`s contract is set to expire in two years at the deadline. Who knows what will happen between now and then, but he will only be 32 and a second could easily be reclaimed.

      • CitizenFlame

        only the scorched earth rebuild types are down on this deal. I don’t see any real down side to this deal. I can’t possibly see any better return for Bourque. Feaster has time to reclaim the pick. While I think Calgary is not one player away from being a contender I think this really solidifies the top 6. The defence now needs some TLC.

        • Truculence

          Yep. I think the D personally needs a gritty, stay-at-home defenceman who can eat up big minutes like a young Regher. Right now we have no physical d-man who can clear the crease and make life difficult for the opposition without surrendering scoring chances (I`m looking at you Sarich). Hopefully we go after Boychuk in the off-season.

          Plus, what`s all this hoopla over Holland! I follow the WHL closely, and Holland does not project a high skill level. He has good hockey sense, for sure, but he is not very big or physical, either. I mean, he can put up points as a 20 year old against an opposition that is mostly younger than him, but he is still a huge gamble in terms of becoming a regular NHLer (remember other minor-leaugers such as Wahl, Howse, and Cameron who lit it up as 20 year olds but so far have been busts as professionals) . Baertchi, Reinhart, and Ferland are much better prospects in terms of becoming useful NHL players in the future. The first projects high-end skill and great drive; the second is one of the best two-way centers in the WHL; and the third is a gritty, physical forward with a pretty good scoring touch.

    • amaninvan

      The message seems to be the team fully intends to push to make the playoffs. To win games now. To keep Iggy, and try to surround him with players to produce with. And also to try and keep a respectable core group through a rebuild.

  • everton fc

    If Cammy doesn’t have a good second half with the Flames… and if we drift away from playoff contention… Feaster will have a lot to answer for.

    While I see it as a slight win for the Flames… We add to the cap. Makes no sense. He’s not worth $6mill a season.

    Also, you move not only a prospect playing well in the WHL, but a 2nd round pick in 2013. We get a goalie who will most likely stay in Omsk of the KHL.

    So…

    Cammy has also been injury prone…

    I don’t know, folks. While I like this move at the moment… It really doesn’t speak to the direction of the organization…

    Sarich… may get moved next. Or maybe JBo. Even though we need to sure-up the defence, we have a lot of salary back there.

    Feaster’s putting his job on the line if this one doesn’t pan out. I don’t see Cammy ever scoring north of 30 goals again. Certainly not 39. But he may fit in nice with Backlund and Stempniak.

    Wouldn’t it be just like the Flames if Stajan returns, slots in between Cammy and Stempniak, and resurrects his career?!

    I’m dreaming, of course….

  • ChinookArchYYC

    I view this deal as more proof that the Flames have begun to rebuild, re-tool, re-invent, or whatever you want to call it. Feaster dealt a top 6 forward exactly when he was hot. You don’t mess with a winning formula, and risk a run to the playoffs by trading one of your top goal scorers. In fact, this is exactly what the Flames refused to do last season, in an attempt to make the playoffs.

    I believe both Feaster and Weisbrod when they claim the deal has been in the works since Christmas, which tells me he is trying to deal from a positon of strength. December was a good month for Rene, and Feaster knew to start looking for a trade, for this very streaky player. It was interesting hearing Feaster say the deal was off last week because of Bourque suspension, but was back on last night. He said this immediately after saying he was not satisfied with the return that Montreal was offering at Christmas time. To me, this suggests he got closer to the deal he wanted.

    For me this deal is addition by subtraction. Bourque is a talent, but he will never be the player that he could be, or more importantly the player the Flames need him to be. He is the definition of the ‘casual play’ that Brent Sutter was so upset about last season. Quite frankly, casual players and play have plagued this team since the lockout. I’m not happy with the loss of another 2nd round pick, but I will be patient and judge Feaster after the trade deadline, to see what moves he can make to replenish the teams future assets. For now, I’ll enjoy watching Cammi in crimson red again.

  • CitizenFlame

    Can FN get anything definitive on Ramo? The view of this guy is pretty divisive. I have heard he is the best goalie in Europe (pretty far fetched) and others say he is trash (equally far fetched). I think that Calgary got the better of the deal for roster players. But what about prospects? We obviously lost in the draft pick department. What does this mean for Karlson or does it impact Ortio more?

  • CitizenFlame

    I’m not suprised, in fact, I feel like pyschic extraordinaire “Johhny Wishbone” as Capt Ron & I were discussing the logic of getting Cammi back & we both liked the idea of it.I’m not thrilled we had to give up a 2nd & give up Holland & we are back in Cap hell again. I dont know anything about Ramo. But this does say a couple things, there was a lot of debate of what Bourque would have actually got us back in a trade because of his contract. Some said maybe a 2nd, I’m pretty sure Rex didnt think we would get that much. Cammi is an asset that I know is worth more than a 2nd, so I think we shored up an asset value. I think this also says Iggy is not going anywhere this year. Thats cool, we’re close enough to swing the bat on this one, it balances our top 2 lines once Tanguay is healthy, I just dont think we have the blueline to make a playoff run.

    • Captain Ron

      Hey Kevin, what a coincidence. I was at the game tonight when the guy who sits beside me told me near the end of the first period that Bourque was traded for Cammi and I had a hard time believing it. I immediately thought of the conversation we had here about the possibility of these two players in a trade scenario. Like you I’m not wild about the 2nd rounder we give up in a couple of years but also think we will have enough assets to recoup that one in a future deal. Really looking forward to seeing him back in the Dome playing for the good guys on Sat night. Having him on the roster can’t hurt our chances of attracting potential free agents in the off season either. Cammi is a player who should have never left in the first place. He’s also proven he can perform in the playoffs which is huge if we ever get there. A good deal for us in my books. Now about that group of defencemen, and one high end center……

  • CitizenFlame

    I love this trade it really shows the management has no sense of direction and as a true blue and orange fan(Oilers for the dumb ones) i’ll be laughing in a couple years from now when we are one of the top 4 teams in the west and the Flames are a bottom 4 team in the west.Cammy is washed up as well as Iginla and have no prospects in the minors.TIME TO REBUILD CALGARY LMFAO!

    • RexLibris

      The Flames management do have a direction in mind, predominantly based on upgrading their veteran players where they can in order to climb into the 8th to 5th spots in the West. I believe that they feel they would rather take full advantage of the last few years of Iginla and Kiprusoff’s contracts to accomplish something in Calgary than trade those players (and contracts) and begin a complete rebuild.

      Chances are that there will come a time this decade when the Flames are looking at a larger rebuild, one that sees them in the bottom third of the league, but that is the cycle of things. Chances are also that the Oilers will pass them on the way up at some point. But just like they always say about sports “nothing is decided beforehand, that’s why they play the game” the same is true of team progressions. Iginla could suffer a concussion similar to Crosby and be on the shelf for a year, Eberle could become mired in a string of injuries. Who knows.

      The Flames in this trade got the better immediate player. They got screwed with the cap hit (in my opinion, $6 million is a lot to pay for Cammalleri) and they really took it by giving up that 2nd round pick. But for Flames fans that pick isn’t as valuable as adding a play-making winger with a history of success on this team. As an Oiler fan (I’m one too) we put far more value on those picks because of where our team is heading and the draft record of Stu MacGregor. In 2010 MacGregor added Tyler Pitlick, Martin Marincin and Curtis Hamilton all with second-round picks and all are listed as top-rated prospects. Oiler fans are enjoying this now, but remember how much we valued those picks when Prendergast was scouting? Not so much.

      This trade, to me, can be read, as mentioned above, as a double-down by Feaster, and also I believe that it puts the likely rebuild of the Flames (open for debate, but we’ve discussed this ad nauseam here) to around 2014-2015. Between now and then, who knows what will happen.

      Here’s hoping the NHL brings these back, I found this clip for Flames fans. It may be bittersweet, but it is appropriate: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OFYsXywwE-w

  • CitizenFlame

    I think Ramo played in the NHL a few years ago with the Lightning. From what I can can remember, he was pretty bad. I have no idea what he’s been like in the KHL, so ya…..

    • Vintage Flame

      Here is a paragraph from Jonathan Willis of the Edmonton Journal and Oilers Nation..

      “In addition to Cammalleri, the Flames add Karri Ramo, who has been lights out in the KHL for three seasons now. Ramo went across the pond after a short and not especially successful career as the Tampa Bay Lightning’s backup goaltender; nevertheless he’s just 25 years old and has been getting better every year. With Miikka Kiprusoff and Henrik Karlsson both signed for next season it isn’t clear where Ramo might fit, but he’s definitely an asset with considerable value.”

  • Bikeit

    Two players I was always troubled that the Flames let go were Ference and Camalleri. Now we have righted one of the wrongs. All the nay sayers can think what Darryl Sutter would have done with this deal. He probably would have only got a second round pick back for Bourque. Feaster just filled a Vacancy for next year with all the UFA’s coming up. As for blowing up the flames talk, that is no way to run a team in the NHL. Draft’s are stabs in the the dark and even picking fifth has risks so why not try to compete every year which is totally possible in the cap and free agent world. If they don’t make the playoffs oh well at least he does not have to sign junk over valued players in the off season since he did this deal now.

  • Truculence

    I have absolutely no clue why people are shitting on this trade. We got rid of a player in Borque whose best years are behind him for a variety of factors writers here and elsewhere have explored. The guy was a corsi nightmare who took bone-headed penalties. We don`t need three more years of a depreciating asset. Cammy is the better and more skilled player, and at 29, his contract will be expiring when he is 32 and still in his prime. You can easily retrieve a second for him at that time, so who cares about a middling second round pick. This trade improves the team for the next three years, cap space notwithstanding.

    As for the people crying about Holland, you would think they just traded away a young Iggy. The kid has a great work ethic and hockey sense, but is not big enough or physical enough to make an impact as a bottom six, nor is he skilled enough to be a top-six forward. As for his points totals, dont get carried away by how many points a 20 year old puts up in the WHL. He`s playing against a lot of 17 and 18 year olds for crying out loud. If any of you follow minor hockey, you would know there have been tons, and I mean tons, of 20 year old who dominate in their last year in the CHL, but are busts at the professional level (Wahl, Cameron, or Howse anybody!).

    The only thing that really sucks about this deal is the cap-space, but whatever. Despite what anyone thinks, we will not land Parise or Suter in the off-season. We should really be looking for young physical d-men anyways like Boychuk or even Gleason as we really don`t have any big bodies in the top-4 that can clear the net and make like difficult for opposing forwards without giving up scoring chances (I`m looking at you Sarich)

    Plus, the Karro guy looks interesting.

  • beloch

    Cammalleri gets one quarter of the penalties that Bourque does and puts up similar numbers against tougher competition in an *off* year. Bourque has had just two seasons at or above 50 points, while Cammalleri hasn’t gotten less than 47 since he started playing full seasons at the NHL level. Cammy is a year younger to boot. There’s no question we got the better player in this trade!

    Also, consider the trade position we are in now. There’s no question that, were the Flames to have a fire sale, Cammalleri would fetch a much bigger return than Bourque. It’s also not as if Bourque wasn’t going to be traded anyways! He was simply not needed with all the other mediocre LW’s the Flames had.

    If, however, Feaster opts to keep Cammalleri, we can afford to move Tanguay or Glencross. We don’t really need one of them playing on the third line and both of these players are moveable. If one were traded for picks/prospects we’d have essentially traded two mediocre wingers for a first-liner and gotten picks and prospects in the process. That’s a win.

    Cammy is young enough that he could easily be a part of the rebuild. If Iginla were hit by a bus in August I’d feel a lot better about the Flames chances next season with Cammalleri than without.

  • Truculence

    On another note, it appears that Borque only had a modified NTC as he was not even aware he got traded until he arrived at the Dome.

    This is the second time we have moved an NTC player this year, so it appears that they are not that huge an impediment as some people make them out to be. Only Iggy, Kipper, and Jbo currently have full NTCs. Kipper will lose his at the end of the year.

  • I think Holland is better than a fourth liner myself, and I don’t think it’s as easy to get second round picks back as it’s being made out to be.

    That said, I don’t hate this deal for what it is. Cammalleri is an upgrade on Bourque in many different ways, that’s just fact. However, here’s what I’m confused about:

    What are the Flames trying to do here? Is this a team that is looking to build for a Stanley Cup? Or is this a team that is content with being a low playoff seed at best?

    Jay Feaster’s comments seemed to speak towards the latter, but I don’t know. If this deal sparks more deals of this nature, it smacks far too much of Edmonton and Toronto.

    However, if this deal is a deal they wanted to make to get Cammalleri solely, or to deal Bourque, I think it’s a good move.

    • RexLibris

      Hey Pat,

      I’m curious about how this deal makes you think of Edmonton and Toronto. I can’t think of what you are referring to, so I’m obviously missing something here.

      Is it the “aim for minimum” strategy that Oiler fans saw year after year?

      @ KevinR

      I didn’t think Bourque would warrant a 2nd rounder because so few trades today involve such a long-term investment in contract for such a paltry sum as a single draft pick. Alone, and based on performance, sure, Bourque is worth a 2nd rounder. When he came from Chicago he was worth a 2nd rounder and he has improved his total numbers in that time, though not necessarily his overall performance. Taken together, Bourque (warts and all), a 2nd rounder and Patrick Holland for Cammalleri alone would be about right. Recouping a draft pick (albeit a late one) and adding some goaltending depth at a time when it looks like Irving will be graduated to replace Karlsson, isn’t entirely a bad move for the immediate future. It puts some cap constraints on the team and they’ll have to hide some bodies in a trunk somewhere, it’s also likely changes some potential moves in the off-season (I’m not sure that Parise is as open an option now), but for the here and now, it’ll make Calgary better.

      Now that Feaster has made his move, I expect that other GMs in the same standings-territory as the Flames will watch and begin to cook up their own deals. One thing I will say though, from an Oilers perspective, is that I believe that Feaster just did Steve Tambellini a huge favour. I believe that the price on playmaking wingers has been set and will only go up as we inch closer to the deadline and some management teams begin to feel increasing pressure to add some scoring depth. Lombardi came out and apologized to the NHL and the Oilers yesterday so maybe we’ll go that route again (insert injury-joke here).

  • Emir

    I like this trade. Cammi was always a real driver whears borque is more of a passenger most nights. Its a good move for the talent level on the ice and another ntc out of our lives.

    How about some props for feaster. Credit him and his team for getting thus deal done without over paying and with moving a damaged good in borque. When a guy is on his second suspension in a single season it usually isn’t helping your trade value.

  • BobB

    A few points:

    1. Cammalleri is not “younger” than Bourque in any measurable sense that this team needs. He’s 30 in June and he’s 6 months younger. His shelf life for winning in the playoffs is about 5 years. Anybody think we’re going to be good enough in the next 5 years?

    Cammalleri is going to exist over a rebuilding period and I don’t think he’s the player needed for that.

    2. Karri Ramo carries no value, I don’t care what Willis says. This is just like with Karlsson. An “oh he’ll be great, he’ll be the future” goalie who has no positive history in the NHL. In fact, Ramo looks worse facing 1104evsa over 3 years and having a .905evsv% w/ Tampa.

    It’s possible that Ramo is a diamond in the rough, based on KHL #’s. but the goalie market is very saturated. It’s easy to get proven goalies for almost nothing.

    3. Rene Bourque may not have been the answer here, but he put up more goals than Cammy over the last three years, he’s bigger and stronger and almost half the cost. Cammy is overpaid. This is like the Phaneuf deal. Swapping problems for problems, and not getting a good solution for the future.

  • BobB

    Wow, not sure what to think to be honest.

    Wanted Calgary to either go for it or rebuild and not stand pat, so I’ll give Feaster credit for doing something, I’m just not sure this makes us any better. Cammy really has to pick up his game here, which is true of Bourque too, so again, a bit of a wash.

    I don’t think Holland will be a superstar, but he has better wheels than a lot of the other dominant at 20 years old junios mentioned earlier. At this point I hate giving up any young players and seeing this team throw around 2nd round pick slike candy is getting old. So much of this deal depends on how futures work out and on rebound performances.

    Which makes me think that maybe the team simply wants the shorter contract term. Pay more now,but not be stuck with a guy until 2016.

    I agree with Pat, the direction of the team remains fuzzy.

  • Dr. Nick

    I like this deal mainly because Cammalleri brings skill to the Flames and is not a player that I feel will only get 20+ goals if he is force fed ice time. I also like this deal because it didn’t involve getting a player you had to hope would be a top 6 forward or could become a top 6 forward. It is great trying to figure out which line or who Cammalleri should play with not because we have to put him somewhere, but because you feel like he could improve anyone he plays with. Cammalleri might not return to his PPG form but the fact that he has the potential to be a PPG player is a great feeling.

    As for Cammalleri’s cap hit and what it does to the Flames, maybe it will force Jay Feaster to try and trade some players that everyone is demanding he trade. He has the option to waive or trade players to free up the cap space once players are healthy, so maybe players like Stajan or Babchuk or Sarich will finally not have to be forced into the line-up because of their salary. The increase in the payroll might also bring additional motivation to trade players who might bring back some younger assets or draft picks might actually get traded at the deadline if the Flames fall suddenly, because how much could crappy players really get you besides crappy draft picks and underachieving prospects and players. When you have all that cap space from the fire sale are you honestly expecting Weber or Suter or Parise to sign with the Flames when they can see a rebuild coming. The Flames will still have cap space this summer no matter what, a little less than before but enough to make improvements if they want to. Plus I think they have a better chance of attracting better players with Cammalleri on their roster than with Bourque.

    As for the draft picks and Holland, that may look to favour the Habs but picks and prospects are always gambles, it would be like choosing a scratch and win ticket over a Lotto 649 ticket. Remember that Holland himself was a 7th round pick, so maybe our 5th round pick will be another Patrick Holland. When it comes to Ramo, just look at Kipper. Kipper was not a stud goalie when it came to stats when we traded for him and was older than Ramo, but look how that turned out. So who knows who will win the prospect/pick battle that is up to the future to decide.

  • Franko J

    Mike Camalleri for Rene Bourque

    Both players have issues and their play has been suspect this season.

    One player who threw his fellow teammates and organization under the bus for another who half the time is sleeping on the bus.

    Another trade in the Darryl Sutter mold.

    Short term gain with only long term pain.
    Another Iginla pal. Another 2nd round pick gone.

    As Pat says “what is the plan?”
    From a hockey standpoint, this organization plan is to sell hope and aspirations to the fans.

    From a business standpoint, they only care about filling their pockets. Sure they pay top dollar for players, however, I truly believe the owners and organization is in it to make a profit and could care less to win a Stanley Cup. This team is still mediocre, with no guarantee of making the playoffs. One player doesn’t make this team any better. The plan is still to make a profit and sneaking into the playoffs for a couple of playoff games to compensate the high payroll.

    IMO this trade appeases the fans appetite for change. But it still doesn’t change the culture or core of this team. In the end, this provides short term excitement for the fans and ownership, however, in the long term this team will keep frustrating the fans to no end.

    In defense of the trade, I would have traded Bourque for a pile of broken sticks or a Russian player, he gave no added value to this team. To get Camalleri was better than what I thought Calgary was going to get for Bourque.
    His enthusiasm and drive will give this team a spark.

    Who will Calgary bring back next to the team? I hear rumours they are going after the SI’s poll most overrated player in the NHL?

    • supra steve

      So if you would have traded Bourque for lumber, what are you complaining about? As for “the plan”, I am in agreement with you, there needs to be one. But I can’t say that this trade isn’t part of a larger plan untill more unfolds. Bottom line is Cammi is an upgrade on Bourque, and hopefully we can get a 2nd rounder back at some later date. As for Ramo vs. Holland, it’s wait and see.

  • RKD

    I think a change of scenery is best for both players. Yes, Bourque did score 27 goals back to back and has 13 so far this season. However,
    he takes bad selfish penalties, doesn’t backcheck, doesn’t like to get hit and this season has already been suspended twice.

    I’m happy Cammy is back, but he’s got to start shooting the puck a lot more. More importantly, if he can stay healthy that will pay big dividends for Calgary.