Quit messing around and extend Brad Treliving

So the Flames lost again. It’s their fourth loss in a row where they faced a deficit of 4-0. Things are bleak and terrible, and frankly, we’re all very sick of it.

Not to say that it’s over. The season still has 31 games left to play, and the Flames are still in a playoff battle. There’s plenty of time to right the ship and lock things down.

But if they end up falling just short, a frighteningly likely prospect, this stretch of games in January will be what people point to when explaining why the Flames didn’t make the playoffs. And that will come crashing down on Brad Treliving’s head, because he doesn’t have a contract and you get the feeling that it depends on whether or not the team makes the playoffs.

Of course, it’s all speculation right now. There’s plenty of time between now and the offseason, so something might be in the works. Something might just require a signature, who really knows. Hell, it may not even depend on whether the team makes the playoffs. Again, speculation.

But we’re nipping this in the bud. The fact that Treliving hasn’t been re-upped yet is concerning. The Flames have a competent GM for the first time in a long time, and they need to keep him around.

The man we know

This isn’t a love letter. Brad Treliving has his flaws.

Here’s some free-association complaints: he signed Troy Brouwer to a four-year contract that is already unbearable in the first six months, he extended Lance Bouma even though everything pointed to him never scoring 16 goals again (and waived Paul Byron as a result), traded for Brandon Bollig, signed post-apex Deryk Engelland, and he made a three goalie mess that pretty much sunk the season before.

He’s made some obvious mistakes! We know they’re obvious because we called it every time. He has his head-scratchers. You can argue that most of his mistakes are either water under the bridge, or will be by July 1, 2017, but an obvious mistake is still an obvious mistake. They’re still indicative of bad thinking that can drag the team behind as their competition leaps forward.

The flaw with Treliving is that he makes at least one unforced error per season, but that glosses over the good he’s done to bring this team from its lowest point ever three seasons ago to a team knocking on the door of the playoffs.

We can look at the him as the guy who traded just picks for Dougie Hamilton, the best defender on the team right now, and then drafted two defencemen with similar potential less than 24 hours later. You can look at him as the GM who locked up three keys parts of the core for under seven million each. Or the guy who flipped Curtis Glencross (who is no longer even in the league) for two top-100 picks, and did the same with Jiri Hudler the following year.

These are the strengths of Tre, and they’re absolutely crucial to the future of the team.

We have the trade deadline coming up in just over a month’s time. The Flames are currently in a position where they could be buying to get a leg up on their wild card competitors, but recent form suggests that they should be selling whatever they can.

But whatever the state of the team is on Feb. 28, they’ll be in good hands. Treliving seems to pay way less than expected for quality assets and get way more than he should for rental pieces. If the situation is the former, perhaps the Flames could pick up an exciting piece for pennies on the dollar. If it’s the latter, the team will walk away with enough draft capital to stock up for the future.

Being a draft nerd, I can assure you that the Flames haven’t seen such quality drafting since… well, forever. In 2015, he nabbed three incredibly promising prospects in Rasmus Andersson, Oliver Kylington, and Andrew Mangiapane. To prove it wasn’t a fluke, he walked away with an even bigger bounty this past offseason. 

To start things off, he picked Matthew Tkachuk, who is already one of the better players on the team. With his next three picks, the team acquired three players who got into the WJC final. There’s also huge potential with Matthew Phillips, the pint-sized monster who is currently top three in WHL primary scoring at 5v5.

It’s picks like Phillips and Mangiapane that best sum up the whole of Treliving’s tenure. He has an uncanny ability to pay a low price for a potentially high return.

The future and final thoughts

The Flames, despite sitting in the thick of things for a playoff spot, are still a rebuilding franchise.

There’s a lot of big money crap on this team left over from previous administrations (and to be fair, his own) that is coming off the books this offseason. As other Christian wrote yesterday, this is a team just about to turn a corner and actually exit the rebuilding stage. Who else should you trust besides the man who got you most of the way here?

Starting the process all over again is a risky and dangerous move. We had no clue what Treliving was, and we struck gold. Don’t count on the organization to do it twice. Remember that after firing Jay Feaster in December of 2013, the likely candidate was Jim Benning

There’s very few GMs in hockey that have a strong resume like Treliving. When you have to assemble a playoff team, you can’t do much better than him. If upper management is too dumb to realize this, then they deserve to wander the desert for an undetermined number of years.

  • Jay (not J)

    Definitely extend him. Extend him, extend Burkie, extend the coach, extend the goalies. I love what this team’s doing this year and I hope that they stick with it. It will bear out soon, you just need the stones to ride through the bumps in the road.

  • Oilerchild77

    Gulutzan = Dallas Eakins. Sounds just like him. No positivity and calls out his players publicly. That’s textbook in how to lose the dressing room.

  • Lucky 13

    Thanks to you both Christians’ for reminding us that Treliving has been a great GM for our team. He’s patient and astute in my books, listens and values his support team. We would be foolish to not extend his contract.
    He has vision, let him continue with it.

      • Scary Gary

        That’s a tad dramatic since we were in a wildcard spot most of the winter until our goaltending and scoring fell off a cliff.

        Ask yourself where did you expect us to be at the beginning of the year and were those expectations realistic?

        • KenBone18

          Prior to the season starting I thought we would be in a play off spot. Apparently, those expectations were unrealistic. All the more reason Tre shouldn’t be renewed.

  • KenBone18

    Hand him a boat anchor contract, in repayment for the boat anchors he’s been handing out? Uhm. No thanks.

    Here’s an idea – how about have competent management that build a competent team through competent trades (Like the Hamilton trade – the only positive – although a broken clock is right twice a day) and competent contracts that can play for a competent coach.

    Until he can do all of those things, why does he deserve another contract?

  • smith

    Every year for the last 6 years I have heard how good the drafting has been. (with a one year exception). Yet still no kids graduating to NHL. How long should we be waiting for a late first or second rounder to make the show? Seems like our prospect look good and then disappear. Arnold, Agostini, Wotherspoon, Shinkaruk, Porier, Culkin, Ortio….. Are the next ones on the list Klimchuk, Anderson, Jankowski, Gillies? When was the last time a player came from the minors and became more than a reserve defense or a 4th line player. Moss? Backlund? Brodie?

    • Scary Gary

      Patience, the majority of prospects you’re mentioning are from the Feaster era. Treliving drafted Bennett and Hickey in 2014, Andersson, Kylington and Mangiapane in 2015 and Tkachuk, Parsons, Dube and Fox in 2016.

    • Kevin R

      Treliving is in his 3rd year so what do the last 6 years have to do with whether we resign Treliving. Your first group of names weren’t Tre’s picks & in fact only 1 of the 2nd list of prospects was his. A little soon for your criticism me thinks.

      Absolutely we should resign him. Now the coach situation, he needs to own it & most importantly, deal with it soon.

    • Cfan in Vic

      “Seems like our prospects look good and then disappear”.

      Then you mention exactly one player that Tre drafted… in order to speculate the Klimchuck, Anderson, Janko and Gilles may fail.

      Weak dude.

    • Nick24

      First, you have to look at how long it took Backlund, Moss, and Brodie to make the NHL after they were drafted.
      Backlund was picked in 2007 and didn’t make the NHL, full time, until the 2010/2011 season. That is three years after he was drafted. So even if a player like Mangiapane, or Matthew Philips have similar impact that Backlund does, we won’t see it for a while yet. Mangiapane would be two years out from making the NHL, and Philips, even longer.
      As for Brodie, he took four years to make the NHL, so if you expect a guy like Anderson or Kylington to be on a similar track, they’re both two years out.

      Additionally, Backlund and Brodie were not top players immediately. Backlund toiled on the 4th-line despite being the best center on the team for a while. It’s really just this year the main-stream is really noticing him. Brodie also rode with Cory Sairch for a while. Things take time.

      Kulak has been pretty good, and there may be something there. He’s at least better than the bottom three defensemen. Ferland has also been very good, and if they gave him more of a chance he’d be a lot better than David Moss was.

      The point is, even if we have a player of their caliber in the system it’s too early to expect that they’re ready to step in and be impactful.

  • smith

    Thinking about it – the longer we wait the more mistakes Treliving is making.

    Byron. Schlemko. Beartchi. Granlund. Brouwer. Bollig. Raymond. Setaguchi. Grossman. Russel. Bouma. Stajan. Chaison.

    How much better would the team look with Byron, Schlemko, Beartchi and Russel instead of Jokkipakka, Wideman, Chaison and Bouma.

    • Scary Gary

      I wanted to keep Byron and Schlemko too but we had to make room for prospects (Wotherspoon, Kulak, etc.).

      Treliving absolutely made the right decision trading and not resigning Russell. We made out like bandits on that trade and Russell wanted too much term and money, which was evident when he signed for 1 year at $3.1.

      Bouma, Wideman, Chiasson and Jokipakka are all either UFAs or RFAs after this year so relax.

      • #97TRAIN

        Russell would be about your only Dman that plays with any passion or give a damn.
        For 3m / year that has been a hell of a deal for what he has brought. You can have your bs fancy stats. They don’t measure a guy’s compete level and leadership intangibles.

        • Scary Gary

          Bob McKenzie reported that Russell was looking for five years at $5.5 million (or more) back in February, trading him was absolutely the right move, that contract if signed would have been terrible for years.

          I’m glad you’re enjoying Russell and I hope you sign him for years to come at a significantly higher cap value.

          Definition of intangibles – incapable of being perceived, realized or defined.

      • Kevin R

        Well first off, Byron was Ok but frustrated the hell out of many of us. I am happy that a change & a chance in Montreal has worked out really well for him. This player that breaks out with another team is just textbook 20/20 armchair criticism.

        Beartchi didn’t want to play in Calgary. Burke & Hartley did the number on him & quite frankly he’s an ok player on an older team desperate for youth.

        Schlemko is a depth player & maybe check how many teams he has played for since he left Calgary. Not sure how you can roast Tre on not resigning him. He was a great pickup when we needed him & is a solid depth NHL player, inexpensive & will always be a solid bandaid for some NHL team.

        Granlund sucked when he was here, & I don’t think too many disliked the return we got for a guy that was in & out of the lineup. He fit in Vancouver because well, anyone under 30 looked like a youth movement there.

        Bouma came off a career year & yeah because of his arbitration rights we wound up paying him $500K too much. 2 year deal would have looked better than a 3, get over it.

        Raymond was coming off a pretty decent show me year in Toronto & Tre just took over the reins shortly after ground zero of a tear down. He had no idea how good the young guys were & needed place holders while he evaluated the teams assets & mapped out his action plan. Yeah 1 year too many but he cost zero assets, was useful in year one.

        Setagucchi was a project. Why not. He played games with LA Kings this year. You try & then he was shipped to the AHL. Are telling me you consider this a black mark strike against Treliving. Yeah ok, whatever.

        Grossman had a lot more backend stuff than anyone of us experts will know. It maxed out Smid’s LTIR, really could care less, he didn’t last long, it was cap move, whatever. I’ve seen toronto & Arizona take on weird stuff for the sake of Cap space. This Grossman thing is nitpicking IMO.

        Russel, my Lord, how do you call that a mistake when it is viewed by most as an absolute huge positive. We were a game away of getting two young players & a 1st round pick for a guy we couldn’t afford to resign. Please explain to me how this is a mistake? There are Oiler bloggers (Henderson) that hate the signing & are terrified Oilers are going to extend him to a LT deal at way too much money.

        Stajan? Stajan wasn’t a Treliving resigning so why is he considered a Treliving mistake. Quite frankly, Stajan has had a pretty good year this year & plays a great 4th line role.

        Chaisson??? Why is this a mistake???? We gave up who??? Chaisson is actually as advertised, a decent depth 4th line & capable of playing 3rd line minutes. Why is it a Treliving mistake that GG stubbornly shackles him to Gaudreau in the top 6 of our lineup.

        So that is why I call BS & trashed that post.

        • #97TRAIN

          The Flames couldn’t afford Russell at 3ml but then chose to sign Brouwer at 4.5? Bob McKenzie said he wanted too much? Ok so you made the trade but could have signed him in the summer. Well there is no question who has had a better impact for the money this year!

          • EhPierre

            Correction: They didn’t want to give Russel his $5.5 for 5 years which he was sticking till near the end of the summer when he realized he wouldn’t be getting that much. The flames already had a defensive core thats overpaid and adding Russell wasn’t a necessity

            Flames needed a big RW hence why we overpaid for Brouwer. Russell for $3 for your team is a good fit, hope it lasts for the season

          • Kevin R

            You a psychic GM? Our need was a heavier top 9 forward that can score goals, not a Dman on a highly paid backend to begin with & we wouldn’t be able to protect anyway. So Brouwer hasn’t lived up to his contract, but he has been a 20 goal RW. I would imagine coming back from hand surgery/broken hand hasn’t helped his game. But Im sure you are an expert about that stuff as well, because heck you are an Oiler fan this year & you guys know everything.

      • EhPierre

        Grossman and Chiasson were the coach’s picks. GG had those guys in his previous roster and obviously liked those two and so he asked Tre to get him those two guys. To try to make the transition smoother for GG, Tre obliged. Grossman was terrible and Chiasson is a good player, just not in the right line due to circumstances. But once again, not really Tre’s faults. Once GG realized that Grossman wasn’t working, Tre got rid of him right away and we didn’t really lose anything from that experiment except 2 points.

        Byron was a mistake but hindsight is 20/20. Schlemko, though I liked him, I’m not sure if he would be a significant upgrade to our defense right now. He’s been scratched quite a bit this season. I’d much rather have Kulak play in the odd game or two than Schlemko. Baertschi wanted out so not much you can do about that. I liked him as did everyone else but he was too weak and didn’t backcheck. Granted, Burke calling him out publicly didn’t help but either way our LW situation is fine so once again, don’t really need Baetschi. I like Russel but I definitely liked the trade to get rid of Russell way better. I’m sure the Flames tried signing Russel, it was heavily reported they were trying, but he wanted too much money and term and we were not in that position to give him that.

        Hope this helped explain things up for you. It’s really easy to point out the faults but you have to realize that it takes two sides to make a deal. Tre may be willing but the other team/player may not be. It’s really easy to say “Get rid of Wideman” but if no one’s willing to take him and the owners don’t want to buy him out, Tre can’t do anything about it. All in all, Tre did all that he can with limited resources and with the constraints that he had to face.

      • Parallex

        Really? I think it’s pretty easy to argue on some of them…

        Russell, good riddance to bad rubbish.

        Setaguchi, Grossmann, & Chiasson were/are all extremely low dollar 1 year deals (you can slag the ice-time they got/get but that’s on the coach).

        Baertchi, wasn’t going to resign.

        Stajan, wasn’t even signed while Treliving was GM.

        … and those are just the easy arguments. I can make a partial argument for half the remaining guys. Treliving is not perfect but he get’s more right then he get’s wrong.

        • Derzie

          Ask Edmonton about Russell. Low dollar garbage is still garbage and clogging up a roster. Sven was run out of town by Burke & Hartley. I’ll give you Stajan. Treliving has not met expectations: “get better each year”.

          • Not a First Tier Fan

            Yeah. Ask us about Russell – who has quietly and competently helped secure the Oilers back end all year while playing on his off-wing.

            We’re very happy with him in Edmonton. Props to Ogie for his earlier post showing that not all Flames fans are morons.

  • slapshot444

    Anyone ever considered that BT isn’t resigning yet as his choice? If there is still meddling from higher ups he might want a commitment to have that resolved before he commits. OR perhaps he has stated salary and terms that the owners have not yet been able to agree to yet, although that’s unlikely. I can’t help but think that KK or BB still stick their fingers in the pie.

  • Derzie

    Trades = A

    Drafting = B

    Contract Negotiation = C

    Building Team Identity = F

    Filling Roster Holes = C

    Cap Management = D

    Hiring coaches = D

    Overall Grade = C

    Grade Required for Renewal = B or higher

      • Tundradog

        The grading nailed it. When you break it down like that it really does look like a fail. C is simply not good enough. Have to be B or better to get where we want this team to go.

    • #97TRAIN

      Since the playoff round a couple years ago the Flames have if anything regressed. The first season after the playoffs were around 20 points less and this season has shown no improvement from the last, even though they supposedly had the best off season ,according to many hockey minds, by signing and trading for goalies and a so called power forward.
      The team looks more out of sorts and disconnected than ever. Does this look like Burke’s vision of a truculent team? Probably not.

  • Dreadguy

    Your friendly, non-trolling Oilers fan is back.

    This is just my two cents, but I think 3 years is long enough for a good GM to make his mark on a team. Keep in mind, this is coming from a fan that has seen some garbage GMs run the Oilers.

    Yes I realize that the Oilers have a ton of high draft picks from those dark years, but here is some food for thought…

    Quote from ON:

    “All this positivity and for good reason. Chiarelli has completely changed this team around and it is far from just McD.

    Larsson, Benning, Russell, Sekera, Lucic, Kassian, Maroon, Letestu, Caggiula and Talbot. 10 out of 20 on the roster he brought in and all these guys were brought on board within 20 months and all are contributing.

    Peter Chiarelli is one hell of a GM”.

    • Derzie

      When you hear Treliving talk, he is a master. Very eloquent and logical. When you hear Chiarelli talk, he sounds like a dope. BUT, the way things are playing out are the opposite. McDavid grossly tilts the scales but right now the ‘dope’ is outperforming the ‘eloquent’.

  • Ogie Oglethorp

    … I had to repost this. I just commented on the thread a few days ago from the other kool aid Christian.. but I assume conversation has moved here…

    —-

    Christian Roatis wrote:
    “…. They’re outplaying their opponents – even during this stretch.”

    Everything wrong with advanced stats is in this comment. You say they are “outplaying their opponents, even during this stretch”. Have you watched the games?

    This is what happens when you put stats into a vacuum and try to evaluate teams.

    I posted earlier about watching Russell in the Oilers game last night. 1 shift last night, through nothing but guts, heart and willpower he stopped a goal. I’m sure he got out-corsi’d that shift, and his posession was brutal, and all the rest of the math stats. But none of that measured the fact that he blocked a slapshot with his body, won an epic battle in front of the net vs 6’4″ Perry and then hobbled off after single handed saving a goal. When he arrived at the bench the coach and 2-3 players were WAITING at the door to pat him on the back clearly showing the team dynamic all Russell’s bad positioning and bad corsi got him.

    1 minute later the Oilers scored, then they win 4-0.

    But oh ya, I remember… Russell’s underlying stats say he is the worst and we needed to get rid of him because it can’t measure heart, battle or team, things that matter in the real world and would stop anyone from ever saying that the Flames have outplayed anyone at any point in any part of any recent game. To say otherwise is just crazy.

    • I watched Kris Russell for 2.5 years in Calgary, and I can tell you with absolute certainty that for every hero shift he puts in, there are three others where he meanders around while the opposition sets up camp in the defensive zone. This is the same “hero” narrative that got Lance Bouma paid, and everyone wants to ditch that contract at earliest convenience.

      I can’t help but admire the fact that you throw out advanced stats because they are offered in a “vacuum” but offer one shift (where Russell gets physical and then the Oilers score when he’s not on the ice) as evidence that Russell is actually good. His only skill this year is being on a team with a generational talent, and even he is doing his best to mess that up (McDavid’s GF% goes up 14% when he’s not on the ice with Russell).

      Booms don’t last forever. In a year, you will probably regret wanting the Flames to give Russell another chance.

      • Ogie Oglethorp

        We will have to agree to disagree. I’m sure you say Lucic is a disaster contract as well. At the same time as watch Johnny got slashed, hacked, lose all confidence and plummet to a 45pt pace because every team is laughing and running around roughshod on all our stars

        Some things, advanced stats can’t measure. Things like heart, TEAM, character, confidence. This team has zero confidence, no backbone, no pushback and pointing to progress by way of improving corsi is why most people are quite happy to throw the baby out with the bathwater in terms of stats.

        I am not naive that a lot of advanced stats are good, but when the evangelists refuse to acknowledge that guys like Russell maybe can’t be measured, and that intangibles and TEAM do matter, they will never matter.

        Tell me how many times you’ve seen GG and 2-3 players waiting at the door to congratulate a Flame player on an epic battle shift this year? A ‘hero shift’ as you call it. I say zero. And that is what this team doesn’t have. Zero hero shifts. This is the team dynamic that no spreadsheet can ever measure. Hockey isn’t baseball.

        • Nick24

          Okay, but if intangibles, heart, and all the other stuff people love to point to as why a bad player is actually good actually had value, wouldn’t they appear in some capacity? Wouldn’t there be a noticeable positive impact? In Calgary, almost all of the players that are characterized as having things like grit, heart, or (my personal favorite) “good in the room”, are some of our worst. Players like Bouma, Engelland, Brouwer. These guys have a noticeable negative impact on the game.

          I’m curious as to how many “epic battle shifts”, the Flames have had this year, or what even counts as one. Furthermore, how is celebrating a “battle shift” conducive to winning?. It’s easy to bring up team dynamic when one team is winning, because they’re going to be happier and more excited about how things are going. Funny how you rarely hear about a bad team that has a good team dynamic, or a losing team with good team dynamic. It’s hard to have a group of players, who play hockey for a living, be happy or even unaffected by prolonged losing.

          That being said, at least for this team, things will turn around. They aren’t as bad as they’re currently showing. You can’t be this unlucky for as long as they’ve been.

      • smith

        I am not a Russel fan at all. But it is hard to say resigning him would have been a mistake when he is playing in a top four role on a good team especially when the flames are playing Wideman, Engelland and Jokkipakka in their bottom 3.

      • Bullocks. You are just sour because of Johnny’s holdout , you could not make an offer to keep him. I live in southern Alberta.Majority of fans wanted to keep him. You can take the corsi and fenwick and throw it out the window. I see a calm, steady tutor for the youngsters, rarely makes a mistake and even less rarely does he make a five bell mistake. We will keep him, Thanx Johnny.

    • Tundradog

      And on the stats not telling the whole story, has it occurred to anyone that the stats look good when the chances given up are so good that the shot goes in on the first shot, yet in the oppositions end the quality of the chances are so bad that they get a block or a missed shot on net and then get the puck back and take another shot that has no chance of ever going in. Tough to make the save in our own end when it is a perfect shot from the slot on an unimpeded one timer.

      Corsi doesn’t speak to quality.

  • ThisBigMouthIsRight

    Yup.. Just extend Treliving already. A lot of his gaffs initially looked pretty smart on paper when trying to fix holes on the team (yes even Bollig) but maybe the players not panning out can also be attributed to his biggest (in hindsight) mistake, Hiring GG !
    Look, GG in theory, Hit all the Buzzwords the Flames were looking for… A Possession/corsi coach, Preached High speed & tempo game, High Pressure D and PK, From all accounts GG is suppose to be Great with young players and a gentle calm coach. Well the flaws of Line Combinations, Not talking with Players after games(or anytime other than practise it seems) and his inability to see talent & skill Versus LHS/RHS and forcing square pegs in round holes when it comes to his big picture has really sunk this years team. This GG Version of the Flames was suppose to be fast, tight and a high pressure team, What we got was the Keystone Cops running around to the Benny Hill Theme. There really doesn’t seem to be much Coaching or Teaching going on? Just lectures and drifting in the wind.
    Has Treliving lost on some risk moves, Yes.. Byron for one (He had an injury plagued year and Burks Truculent & Big was also in play at the time) I really believe they didn’t think anyone would take him off the waver wire (Oops).
    Grossman, Vey, Chaisson… Guess who wanted them? Beartchi Wanted out due to poor management before Trev took over (turned into D. Hamilton). Granlund was Meh. A lot of the signings were done with the impression the rebuild would take years So, you need to fill holes with players until the prospects mature. But who could foresee Monahan, Gaudreau, Bennett, Tkachuk All showing up for the Dance Early? And really gave the impression the Flames are a couple years ahead in the rebuild!
    IMO – Treliving is doing a really good job considering all the outside influence and requests/pressure from management, Burk and GG, CAP Issues and the Fan base to try and turn this team around after the GM Sutter Mess was left and patching up the Feaster efforts.
    Its Truly Unfortunate GG seems to be a Head Coaching Bust, at this point Addition by Subtraction and an internal band-aid replacement might be the best solution to stop the bleeding from turning into a hemorrhage. Things to look for in a Coach 1) Defensive minded. 2) Player Skill & Development Deployment. 3) Experienced with a record of winning. 4) Possession Driven/corsi . 5) Communication & Teaching Ability! 6) Works well with young players.
    Sorry for the Novel… Cheers! I guess we’ll see what happens.

  • McDavid's Comet

    What I’m understanding from your post is even though you don’t like Chairelli (understandable, you are Flames fan ) you can at least admit he has given McDavid a terrific supporting cast despite the fact that he doesn’t (which is irrelevant) use words as “eloquent” as Treliving.

    Is this a correct assumption?

    Let’s be honest here any team can have a great talent such as McDavid; it’s the other players that help make a team successful.

    • Honest question: if McDavid broke his collarbone again and was out until the playoffs, how well do you think the Oilers would perform? Would they keep the pace, go .500, or sink like a rock?

      Alternatively, is Chia good because of McDavid, or McDavid good because of Chia?

      • Ogie Oglethorp

        Both. If McDavid was getting slashed and run over like Johnny all year, I doubt he’d be doing as well.

        If Talbot let in every second shot, I doubt McDavid would be doing as well.

        If their D were soft and couldn’t break the puck out (like previous years), I doubt McDavid would be doing as well.

        So they are both helping each other. To say it’s all McDavid is just another vacuum naive statement.

      • Not a First Tier Fan

        Of course losing McDavid would hurt the Oilers – but maybe not as much as you might think short-term. Draisatl is in full beast mode right now and the team has all four lines rolling and scoring. Plus as good as he is McDavid has no effect on goaltending. Talbot has that locked down.

        I know it’s tough for Flames fans to give any credit where it’s due but Chiarelli has built a very strong team.

        • #97TRAIN

          Chiarelli has built this team in 18 months. Treleving needs to ramp it up a bit or he will be out the door. His team needs to improve his team which compared to last year doesn’t look like he has.

          • Not a First Tier Fan

            Right on. Plus he built it in a situation where every GM in the league knew exactly what he needed and doubled or tripled the prices whenever Pete gave them a call.

            Case in point – Dougie Hamilton. Edmonton offered a better trade to Boston for him but the Boston management made the trade with Calgary for less partly just to spite Chiarelli.

          • The GREAT WW

            Why don’t you guys go and continue your circle jerk on ON instead….?!

            WW

            FN Mod: they are contributing to the conversation, a whole heck of a lot more than what you wrote. As long as they do not break the rules, they can stay.

          • McDavid's Comet

            @ FN MODERATOR

            Sorry about that, its clearly frustrating when certain individuals try to hijack a good conversation with vitriol and nonsense. I’ll will try to be more conservative and let you handle it.

            FN Mod: after a bit of a rocky start, your posts have been quite good and contribute to the conversation. So, it’s a non-issue. Keep posting like you have been recently and there will be no issue.

          • #97TRAIN

            This is an article about Treleving and I am making comparisons to Edmonton which happens to be in a similar situation that Calgary is in .
            Treleving has been on the job a few years now and the seem to be going backwards while Chiarelli has turned his team around in 18 months.

          • Jumping Jack Flash

            Before you go patting Chia on the back and worshipping Chia as your saviour, just remember it is pretty easy to look good as a GM when you draft a
            genrerational player.

            It doesn’t hurt that you can use one of many first overall picks as bargaining chips and that team is not up against the cap like his team was in Boston. Quite simply, BT has had far less to work with and has made some good moves.

          • KiLLKiND

            Maybe you’re right we need new moderators the only people commenting are Oilers fans talking about Oilers. This is garbage, they come here and troll constantly and have clearly reduced the quality of discussion on these posts. What happened to Piscerra.Inferda? We need these trolls gone so we can have our own discussion without the thread being constantly switched to Oilers talk.

            FN Mod: they are contributing to the conversation, in fact, many of the posts are directly responding to a question posed by the author of this article. We are not here to stifle any on-topic conversation.

          • Jumping Jack Flash

            Ahh Walter….I love how you say what typical Flames fans are thinking. I must admit it is a little annoying having Oiler trolls telling us where our team went wrong. The Oilers have had a big headstart and can now ice a competitive team. Their fans are bursting at the seams to tell anyone who will listen.

            I was just in Vancouver and heard the local Canucks radio station conduct a fan poll on Benning’s greatest moves, the Baertschi and Granlund moves won by a landslide. They seem to view BT like the rest of us view Benning.

          • KiLLKiND

            Lol rebuilt the re-rebuild in 18 months? He had far more pieces to start with than Treliving, he had the 3 #1’s and a plethora of high 2nd round picks that were starting to develop into real NHL’ers. He got you guys a goalie, Maroon and won McDavid. Let’s keep it real turning around the Oilers with all the pieces he has to work with should have been easy. I’m not quite sure but is he the same guy that got rid of the current Vezina trophy likely winner as well? He had a very easy job. He clearly lost the Taylor Hall trade, but with all the assets he has at his disposal filling in holes should be easy and he can afford to lose every trade he makes as long as he fills the holes in the roster. He did manage to trade away 2 very high picks for an AHL defensemen as well while saying that it would fill an immediate need for help.

            Also for everyone saying look at Russell’s amazing defensive efforts, those are great. The saying for shot blocking is like killing rats if good to do it when needed, but preferable to not be put in a position where you have to do it at all.

          • #97TRAIN

            Spin it however you like but his team is 12 games over 500 and he brought in at least 10-12 new players on this team .Larsson has been a beast and super physical.
            He traded a top left winger because he knew the needs of this team and they have prospered for it.
            He brought in a top coach,with NHL experience, something Treleving couldn’t do.

            The guy knows how to recognize his needs and goes out and does it.

          • KiLLKiND

            I’m not spinning it I’m telling you the facts this rebuild has gone on for a decade in which the Oilers set records as the most incompetent team in any major sport, and they stockpiled assets. Now that a GM that isn’t a complete moron came in, he had a pretty easy job. It was very clear to anybody you had more than enough top end forwards and the worst defence in the league. Trading a forward for defensive help was not a new thought it was very obviousLarsson isn’t a beast Hamilton is a beast. I’m sure we all know Dougie is far better than Adam and didn’t cost a 1st overall. Congrats on being over .500, is this the first time in the 2010’s that you can say that, though? Now can we start talking about Treliving or do have so little to do in your spare time that you spend all day bragging about not being the worst team in the league finally?

          • Not a First Tier Fan

            [redacted – flamebait; make better choices]

            The problem with everyone knowing what your team needs to get better is that when you try to make trades for it you get bent over a barrel. (See Hall for Larsson straight up)

            Chiarelli had to do what he’s done despite that – and with far fewer bargaining chips than you think. A few years of MacT and Lowe after even more years Tambo and Lowe leaves the house in a mess, the bathtub on the front lawn and the curtains on fire.

            However – yes – we did have the golden ticket… The chance to play with McDavid certainly helped attract some players. For sure.

            FN Mod: Edited your post. You know why.

          • Not a First Tier Fan

            Fair enough.

            To be honest though, the definition of irony may be Flames fans complaining about being trolled on their site. A lot of those folks complaining the loudest have handles that are very familiar over at Oilers Nation…

            But I digress. I’m curious since the consensus seems to be to resign Treliving what folks feel about Burke? He’s been around longer than Tre had right?

          • KiLLKiND

            @FN mod See, comments like this are comments that have no place here. This is a Flames fan site the very first line is meant to be an insult to Flames fans, while the rest is fine. However it should still be for ON, they compare Calgary to the Oilers so somebody attacks the Oilers (rightly so) and the thread switches to how Chiarelli is as a GM instead of how Trevling is. They reply to my post calling out Chiarelli’s faults, but not my post saying Treliving maybe shouldn’t get extended. I know the discussion is important and so is not banning people for simply questioning what you like, as that would be dictatorial, but this is a Flames site while Oiler fans shouldn’t simply be kicked out they do often post inflammatory comments and in the end, the thread becomes Flames fans vs trolls war.

            I’m not sure what the solution should be, but I do know I have seen a decline in intelligent Flames related conversation since more trolls have appeared. The trolls shouldn’t ruin the site. This is by far my favourite site and I read every single article and miss 2 years ago when trolls were very rare instead of on every single article. Saying some Flames fans troll on ON doesn’t make it right either as they are the minority and I disagree with their actions. When I comment on ON I try to comment with the viewpoint of an Oilers fan and I never mention Calgary. I think if they did similar it would be a far more inviting comment section.

            edit; I was writing this post before I saw your reply on my earlier post it seems we think alike. I guess not replying to Oilers related comments is the best strategy. To the Oiler commentators, I do not dislike you personally, I do dislike the Oilers, but I’m sure we find some common ground as we all like hockey and look forward to hopefully having fun non-hostile conversations with you. Please stop with baiting us to reply to Oiler posts and I really do hope our Flames fans that troll you will read this and begin to turn around the way they comment.

          • Not a First Tier Fan

            You have some good points and I’m sorry if my posts aren’t clear enough. A fault in communication is usually the responsibility of the communicator.

            I make analogies to the Oilers because our team has gone through a very dark period with some terrible management. I hope I’m wrong but there are some very clear similarities between the current Flames regime and what we just went through up north. Nobody deserves to go through a decade of darkness – and despite some shots we take most of the Oilers fans posting on here actually want the Flames to do well.

            And yeah – I’ll stick up for Chiarelli. I own that. Sorry if it offends.

          • KiLLKiND

            It doesn’t offend me, I agree nobody, not even the Oilers deserves a period of darkness such as yours. I would hope you stick up for your GM, but the similarities between the Oilers aren’t that great as we have no valuable player that we can really get by without to trade for a high-end RW. Analogies to the Oilers can be fine, but let’s face it most of the time that leads to heated arguments and I just don’t like coming to my favourite about my favourite team site just to see my them get trashed.

            I know Treliving has done a rather poor job lately, but the team he inherited was awful as none of Calgary’s 1st round picks outside of Backlund had panned out in recent years and Calgary’s drafting and development before he was hired was near the bottom of the league. Now I think he is too willing to move on from players that show potential such as Byron or Agostino and both would look great in a Flames uniform this year instead of Brouwer and Bouma respectively. We would have much more cap space if we had traded Bouma for a 5th and waived Bollig instead of Byron who is doing fantastic as 2nd line RW.

          • Not a First Tier Fan

            There have been a few folks posting that the Flames need a few more intangibles to raise the average sweater size and stick up for Johnny. I would agree with that and that’s what I personally think is Treliving’s biggest failure.

            He brought in a coach with a possession-heavy plan but traded away or let slip so many of the heart and soul grinder characters that help keep that possession meaningful.

            Treliving and Burke are looking for the wrong things. I don’t think they know what the Flames need.

          • I’ll defend Treliving’s decisions overall. Which “heart and soul grinder characters” that were going to “stick up for Johnny” did he let slip? Colborne? Jooris?

            If you’re saying CGY needs talented muscle then we’re on the same page, but it’s not like they had it and it got away from Treliving.

          • Not a First Tier Fan

            First one that comes to my mind is Russell. For some reason he isn’t well liked down south but up north we’ve been very happy with his play. (Not trying to link to Oilers it’s just coincidence that’s where he’s playing now.)

            The second to mind hasn’t really slipped away I guess… I’m just confused why Ferlund is warming the bench so much.

          • RickT

            Russell for us was very high risk. We were getting shelled while he was on the ice, and we really did not have the goaltending to make up for it.

            Maybe the reason that he is perceived so well in Edmonton is that there is the goaltending behind him. His mistakes are not so egregious. He is still a negative Corsi player, but if it can be mitigated…

            I think 3.1m is still too much to pay for him.

            I do agree he was heart and soul, but there were a lot of underlyings that were detrimental to the team success.

          • Jumping Jack Flash

            I agree with this statement to a point. As much as we would like to see Ferland play his crashing and banging style, I think he has been told that neither his head or body can sustain this abuse long term. The truth is that without his nasty demeanour he is easily replaceable. Much like Bennett he often leaves you wanting more.

          • Brian McGratton could have been used in a limited role. He knew his role and embraced it, plus he could play the game. There would still be a couple of Leafs players out with concussions from getting their faces caved in if they had retained him.

          • #97TRAIN

            Hamilton and Larsson are different players. Hamilton is an offensive play maker and Larsson is a punishing stay at home defender in the style of Robyn Regher. There are very few people in Edmonton still upset with that trade. Larsson is just what Edmonton needed and Chiarelli saw the need and went out and got him and who can argue with the results?

      • McDavid's Comet

        They wouldn’t keep pace but, they wouldn’t sink like a rock either and probably wouldn’t go 500. to be honest. They would however keep a playoff spot, where that playoff spot would be is pure speculation.

        As for your question: Is Chia good because of McDavid, or McDavid good because of Chia? I would say as of right now it is both. McDavid is clearly the “stick that stirs the drink” but without the moves that Chia has made since last yrs. deadline we wouldn’t be where we are now. Both have contributed to the success of this team.

        You cannot truly appreciate a good GM unless you have endured the likes of K.Lowe, Mr. Dithers, MacT and a decade of darkness. Calgarys’ business operations hasn’t been run like the Oilers have; everything changed when we won the golden ticket. THANK GOODNESS!

  • smith

    I am not saying Treliving’s drafting has been bad. I am saying that supposedly the flames drafting has been better for the last 6 years and I am not really seeing it as far as prospects reaching the big league.

    Look at Tampa’s prospects reaching the NHL in last few years, or Columbus, or Anaheim’s etc….

    Really all I am saying about drafting is that it is hard to say that it is better until some kids make the big leagues.

    I am on the fence as far as Treliving. Some good moves and quite a few bad ones. If he stopped making stupid little moves I would be a lot happier.

  • JoelOttosJock

    BT has done good and bad. Starting with the good. His drafting has been very good up to this point in time. Bennet..MacDonald..Hickey..Tkachuk..Parsons. He has also made some good trades..such as the Doogie Hamilton acquisition and also the Kris Russell trade. Not sure about his Baertschi deal though..was well known that Hartley and Burke didn’t like the guy..well it was known that Hartley was on his way out and if Burke doesn’t like someone..chances are they are worth keeping around..like at that meat heads track record! Same goes for Mason Raymond..he was a good fit here but Bob Hartley misused him. Let’s use a skilled 2nd/3rd line guy as a 4th liner..should have kept him for this season to see what he could do with a new coach..plus he’d look a lot better on that wing where Chaisson is. BT’s resigning of Johnny and Mohnny were great team friendly deals..great moves on him..just shouldn’t have taken so long with Johnny. The Brouwer deal was a year too long and 1 million too much, but on July 1 that’s the way she goes..grossly over pay because it is an auction. The Giordano resigning is the worst move this man has made in my opinion. Term and salary are ridiculous. His second biggest mistake right now is Glen. He in my opinion is not right for this job with these players. Both mistakes are easily fixed in the near future..I shouldn’t hold my breath on trading Giordano.

  • KiLLKiND

    Personally, I’m fine with not extending Tre, let’s see how he handles this trade deadline and draft. He failed to analyse where this team really was and we lost out on Debrincat for a year of Elliot and signed Brouwer to a horrible contract despite better RW’s being available for cheaper. This year should have been our final year of bad contracts and development before really trying to compete. Instead, we sacrificed valuable assets and cap space on an ageing goalie and ageing RW, who have both vastly underperformed.

    At this last draft, I believed we should have drafted Keller instead of Tkachuk, so far Tkachuk has made me eat my words. However, Keller is having a fantastic season and is a right shot centre which could be a far better fit. He failed to address our need for a high-end RW, thinking Brouwer could suffice, which is clearly not working. Our LW, centre, defence and goalie prospects are very well stocked, so he doesn’t draft an RW until the 6th round. He has a had a poor year, and if it continues, Calgary shouldn’t be so quick to lock him up.

    @FN Mod fair point about them replying to posts, yet the way they structure their replies it leaves further replies to have to talk about the Oilers. I do believe they do downgrade the quality of conversation though as, the constant comparisons to our fiercest rival often spark controversy and anger. I do agree sometimes they contribute to the conversation, yet too often they simply say Oilers are doing well Calgary isn’t and the thread shifts. and becomes a comment war. You have seen threads shift from the first comments to Oiler comparisons and while banning is too strong of a punishment something should be done to try and keep these threads on track.

    FN Mod: I see where you are coming from, but it is a fine line that we are walking in order to avoid stifling conversation and becoming too much of an authoritarian group. We do not want to make the decisions for the posters about what they want to talk about, but we want to make sure that the topics of conversation go where they do naturally. If people do not want to talk about the Oilers, do not respond involving the Oilers. If people respond, talking about them (devolving the conversation as some see it), we assume that they are part of the natural flow of the conversation.

    • Not a First Tier Fan

      Also – while it was controversial at the time I doubt you’d find many Oiler fans unhappy with the Larsson trade at this point in the season.

      Would Tre have the guts to make a trade like that? I haven’t seen it…

        • #97TRAIN

          Ya a 4d!! You obviously haven’t seen him play. He’s been great and on a good contract.
          Suffice to say your team could use a strong stay at home punishing defender.

        • Not a First Tier Fan

          Well like I said it was controversial. Last summer most Oiler fans would have agreed with you.

          Nothing changes minds like a taste of success though. So you should probably hope that Tre can make a “bad” trade if he needs it to make the Flames more successful.

  • Not a First Tier Fan

    Also I always kindof liked the edge that Baertschi played with. Thought he was a guy who could have helped the Flames out if he had been kept.

    There’s a couple others but you probably get the gist.

    • RickT

      It’s a sore spot for a lot of fans. The trade was as good as we were going to get, however, how he was treated in Calgary was abysmal.

      We are sore about his treatment, which led to the trade – understanding that the trade was necessary because of the treatment.

    • We’re just going to have to agree to disagree on Russell. I don’t watch that many Oil games, so if you say he’s holding it down then I’ll take your word for it, but when he was in CGY he couldn’t get the puck out of his zone to save his life. Your issues with Ferland’s usage are coaching ones I think, as are your issues with the Baertschi trade. The previous coach wouldn’t play him and he wanted to be moved–definitely a shame to see a player that offensively gifted leave, but he was not a “heart and soul grinder” sticking up for other players when he was in CGY and I’d argue that he’s absolutely not that in VAN either.

      I get the gist, but I’m still curious who the others are. I’m not seeing many errors on Treliving’s part with regards to moving grinders.

      • Not a First Tier Fan

        This is where I admit that you’re pushing me a little out of my comfort zone now and stretching my knowledge of the Flames organization – but where I would go with this would be Sielhof and Nakladal.

        I thought Sielhof had more upside for the Chaisson trade. And I thought Nakladal would have been an asset but have to admit I lost track of the conversation on what happened there. Could be he’s actually in the Flames organization and I just didn’t know it.

        Edit – just in case I garbled it I liked Sielhof’s upside and probably wouldn’t have traded him for Chaisson.

      • Not a First Tier Fan

        Also – while a GM might not be able to tell a coach who to play for how long a night, the two should be talking and making sure they’re both on the same page. It’s a little bit of a crutch to blame the coach for ‘coaching issues’ and not attribute any part of those decisions to the GM.

        My thoughts anyways…

  • Tundradog

    I was all for extending BT until yesterday when he backed GG on his pathetic tirade on Tuesday. GG was out of line, embarrassing, and unprofessional. It has no place in a Flames organization – or for that matter any professional organization. When BT backed GG’s comments, I lost all respect. Both need to go, and after tonights beatdown by Ottawa, both should be gone.