FlamesNation mailbag: the fringes

We’ve gone on about the big issues of the Calgary Flames off-season for a long time now: what’s happening with TJ Brodie and/or Michael Frolik? What’s happening with Matthew Tkachuk? How can we lose players and also get better? Et cetera, et cetera.

Let’s give everyone a break from that conversation and look at some of the more minor issues: interesting cap circumvention, what’s happening with minor league players, and old player ideas we all forgot about.

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The issue with this particular LTIR scheme is that it’s not enough to sign Matthew Tkachuk. With LTIR, you don’t get to go over the cap with the full value of the contract you are LTIRing, you get the value of the contract minus the space you currently have. Even if the Flames max out their cap space (adding seven million in hits between now and the day before the regular season starts), Hossa’s contract is only $5.275M. Tkachuk is making something between $7-9M next season, depending on how long his contract is. That’s not enough to cut it.

A second contract is needed. Unless Milan Lucic also suddenly becomes allergic to his gear, they could look at picking up Johan Franzen ($3.954M cap hit, $1M salary, 2020 expiry) or Henrik Zetterberg ($6.083M Cap hit, $1M salary, 2021 expiry) to help boost that LTIR number. If the Flames can help their cash strapped pals while fixing their own problems

Would the Flames do it? Unlikely. It holds Tkachuk out of training camp while also adding hefty cap hits (Hossa, Zetterberg) for the 2020-21 season too. They also have to be cap compliant on the day of the regular season, which will require some more tricky maneuvering. I think the Flames would be more interested in the plan everyone’s heard about since this off-season began: trade away TJ Brodie and Michael Frolik for high end assets, pay Tkachuk, and let various youngsters fill the gaps.

Will writes

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What’s going to happen with Gillies since he is on a 1 way this year and Talbot and Rittich are already locked into the 1 and 2 slots.

I think Jon Gillies is gone via trade. One way and two way doesn’t matter because his salary can be fully buried regardless (it’s just more out of pocket cash for the Flames to spend, but no cap impact), it’s more so because he’s just plateaued when the Flames needed him to be ready. Goalies do have a longer development curve, but Gillies seems to already be what he is at age 25.

With the projected AHL roster including Artyom Zagidulin and Tyler Parsons, two goalies who will need extensive time, Gillies is the odd man out. They’ll probably trade him for whatever they can, AHL depth, a late round conditional pick, or “future considerations.” With Gillies requiring an actual NHL salary without much justification for it, teams probably aren’t eager to give up any assets, but if the idea is that the Flames need space, then the Flames won’t care. They gave up literally nothing (termed “future considerations”) for Kevin Poulin a few years back, and took back nothing when they traded away Tom McCollum (a conditional seventh, conditions not met). It’s maybe not the haul people thought Gillies could get a few years ago, but seeing how his value has tanked, it’s unlikely the Flames get anything tangible. He was the AHL’s worst goaltender last season, you aren’t getting anything good for him.

The lone reason he could stay is because he is the Flames’ longest tenured goalie (seriously). Gillies may not be a bonafide NHL starter, or even a regular backup, but he already has NHL experience and can probably be a decent goaltender in an emergency situation. The Flames are likely treating Parsons and Zagidulin as multi-year projects and don’t want the interruption and pressure of an NHL call up to impact their development. With Gillies, he’s probably not going to be hurt if you have to yo-yo him between two leagues.

I don’t think so. Acquiring Lucic filled the role Patrick Maroon would’ve occupied on the Flames, so there’s no need to commit more money. Maroon will probably top out at 20 points and provide toughness in a bottom six role, but for a price that will gum up an already gummed up cap situation.

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I think he’s going to be a RW for at least next year. The Flames’ depth on that right side is still extremely barren, so why move away your one good RW, especially when your C depth is pretty stout. There’s no other right handers except for Derek Ryan and Austin Czarnik, which limits your options severely.

Plus, we should also mention that a lot of Lindholm’s days in Carolina were spent at centre, and it wasn’t necessarily the most effective use of his time. He is very good at faceoffs, so he has that part of playing centre down pat, but his offensive numbers weren’t as great and his defence wasn’t much better. Moving from C to RW has done a lot for Lindholm’s all around game, and it’s probably the most effective place for him.

Remember that Bill Peters spent many years in Carolina trying Lindholm at C. There’s probably a reason he wasn’t keen on trying it again this season.

It’s an interesting question. He was better than expected last season, and with Michael Stone gone and TJ Brodie likely on his way out, that doesn’t leave the Flames with many options. From their regulars last season, that leaves them with Mark Giordano, Rasmus Andersson, Noah Hanifin, Travis Hamonic, and no one else. Brandon Davidson is here, but he shouldn’t be a regular minutes muncher after a whole season as the Blackhawks’ 7D. The AHL depth is currently Rinat Valiev, Alexander Yelesin, and Andrew Nielsen. Yelesin is right handed, but he’s a North American newcomer and will require time in the AHL before moving up.

With no other signings (as of this moment, but the remaining UFA talent pool is extremely thin for the Flames’ price point), that leaves the door open for at least one, but probably both of Oliver Kylington and Juuso Valimaki. So the answer is yes, but the next question is where?

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Valimaki and Kylington could form the third pairing, and play sheltered minutes in order to minimize the flaws they still need to work out as youngsters. But as both are lefties, which one will play the right side? Both are well regarded for their skating, but Kylington is the speedier and more agile player who can cover ground more quickly, so it seems more likely he can make the transition more easily.

I don’t know how the Flames approach this one, but that is my best guess. They’ve got a lot of promising youngsters and nothing else at the bottom of their depth chart. Unless they find a bargain bin righty to play their third pairing, they’re going to have to force a youngster to play that position. It gets them NHL time, so it’s not the worst thing in the world.

Not technically a mailbag question, but an interesting question nonetheless.

I would just offer sheet Jesse Puljujarvi if I were the Flames. Puljujarvi’s career history is all potential and no results: think Curtis Lazar, but with a much higher ceiling. He’s played well in the past before, but only when he’s with Connor McDavid, and that’s true of a lot of folks. It’s not worth giving up a decent prospect.

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The offer sheet is a more effective route. Evolving Wild’s contract projector sees him getting a two year, $1.367M bridge deal. That number is significant, because it falls below the threshold for any compensation for an offer sheet. You don’t give up anything (even if you bump that number up a bit, you only give away a third round pick, which is also decent compensation), you fill a need for very cheap, and if it doesn’t work out, you can just cut bait, no questions asked.

So why wouldn’t the Oilers match? Well, there’s a few complications. First off, they’d be at an impasse with a player who doesn’t want to play for their team. That’s going to cause friction in a locker room which allegedly sees issues every year. They also can’t sit on him and trade him because a matched offer sheet means that the team can’t trade him for a year. If the Oilers matched, they’re effectively making a seven figure punt.

But what if the Oilers match? Well, the Flames wouldn’t lose out on that much. Puljujarvi is a reclamation project worth taking up, but they can live without him. But for Puljujarvi, it’s bad news if the Oilers match. First off, he can’t sit out or else he’ll be in breach of contract. He also can’t be traded, which effectively forces him to play for a team he doesn’t want to. That nightmare scenario is probably what his agent is advising against: don’t sign an offer sheet, because the Oilers can use that against you too.

I would go for it, but it’s more likely than not that the Flames don’t wind up with Puljujarvi. I also like Puljujarvi, and I don’t want him to be forced to play for the Oilers. Could you imagine such a hell?


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  • deantheraven

    can’t agree with you on the point about trying Lindy at centre this season. Peters hinted at it at the year-end pressers and Tre has hinted at it since then. I imagine Lindy will get reps at centre in the preseason. It’s up to BP to figure out if that’s where Elias will be a fit. Personally, I love him on the RW with JH and Monny, but if coaching and Mgmnt decides to spread things out a bit offensively, Lindy might do well in a 2C slot. Depends on the complements.

    • Sterls

      I’m not really for moving Lindy to 2C because I have no idea who would replace him effectively on the top line, but moving Lindy to C makes Backlund a 3C, which opens up the door for him playing with Lucic. Backlund is our best hope of getting anything out of Lucic beyond hitting and deterrence. If Frolik is still here at the beginning of the season a 3rd line of Lucic-Backlund-Frolik could be a nice blend of sound 2 way play, secondary scoring, and thanks to Lucic punishing (albeit potentially the most expensive 3rd line in the league).

      The problem with that is now we have to be creative on the right side of our top two lines, and I think we have the pieces to make that work.

      Playing with the lineup perhaps:

      Gaudreau-Monahan-Tkchuck (might be as effective if Tkchuck can find chemistry and adjust the the right side)
      Mangiapane-Lindholm-Bennett (Is mangiapane ready?, is Lindholm a C?, is Bennett at top 6, or a RW?)
      Lucic-Backlund-Frolik (could be a beautiful 3rd, but not worth it if the top 2 lines don’t work)
      Jankowski-Ryan-Czarnik/Dube (spare parts that likely will make an effective 4th).

      I still think Lindholm is best slotted at 1RW but I wouldn’t mind seeing the above lineup experimented with in the preseason.

        • HOCKEY83

          I think it depends on where he plays in the line up but I loved him in Barrie and I love him as a flames. Hope he does well. He was as prolific at goal scoring as Debrincat in the OHL. Debrincat gets to come into the league and play with stars and lots of minutes and Mangi gets to play on the 4th line. Some players paths in the NHL are more fortunate than others.

      • Korcan

        good points. And good questions regarding your second line. They look like a trio that would likely start out lower than the Backlund line on the depth chart, but by season’s end could surpass them – it all would depend on how Bennett and Mangiapane develop. It could be a pretty fun trio to watch – no shortage of jam on that line.

  • Cheeky

    Problem with trading Gillies is which team would be willing to trade for an AHL goalie on 1 way? Only scenario is if we include a sweetener or he’s part of a package…

  • freethe flames

    As I posted on the other thread; should the Flames offer either a contract to any of the following to fill our “barren right wing”: Noesen, Smith Pelly, Jaskin, or Jimmy Hayes.

    I like the idea of offer sheeting Jesse but only do it after Tkachuk and Mangiapne are signed.

    • Kevin R

      Not really any UFa’s I would be interested in that are left. I would be intrigued trying to get Perlini out of Chicago but he’s a left wing. I doubt Pulji would sign an offer sheet as that would only open the door to Oilers matching. Thing is, Oilers would just send him down to AHL & bury him there & he would never get a chance to come up. I think he is a little bit more intriguing &not a good comparison to Lazar. I would think either Lazar or Jankowski would tweak Hollands interest.

      I would make Yzerman an offer he couldnt refuse to get Mantha. Big scoring nasty RW that could really fit on that top line. Then I would move Lindholm to Centre between Tkachuk & Bennett on the RW.
      Backlund & Ryan could centre the 3rd & 4th lines & we could probably come up with some pretty interesting combos.
      Obviously Janko, Kyllington & Brodie would be going the other way to get Mantha.

      Does anyone know why Magpie hasnt been resigned yet? Cant be that hard of a contract to nail down, obvious 1-2 year bridge would be a no-brainer.

    • BendingCorners

      @FTF – All of those guys are Stockton depth. The only way to get a good RHS forward is to send Bennett + Mangiapane and even then I don’t think most teams would bite. Plus the Flames’ LW depth would take a significant hit. Better to sit tight for a year and see how the prospects develop. The team was good last year and will be again this year, so there is no need to rush.

    • Budgie

      Tkachuk is the priority, hard to make any moves till Tkachuk is signed. Likely his agents demands are high because of Mathews signing for 11 million, the players aren’t direct comparisons but Mathews is young. Mathew’s contract upped the market for all young talented NHL players. likely Tkachuk has been offered 7 mill, he is still unsigned so more Cap Space is a necessity. Trades are forthcoming or Tkachuk is gone to a higher bidder. What Mariner gets in Toronto will be important to Tkachuk’s signing-Toronto has less Cap Space than Calgary and Marner is looking for 10 mill (rumoured). Toronto had Gardiner to sign too, something has to give soon. Calgary like Toronto has to make a Cap Space trade or two.

      • Off the wall

        Once Toronto uses their LTIR, they’ll have enough to sign Marner.

        Ours cap space is a little different. We have $7.75 M to sign Tkachuk and Mangiapane.

        Tkachuk is a pretty smart kid. He’s probably looking at a five year deal, with a heavy bonus structure. The CBA renewal and the potential for another lockout is looming. Tkachuk will protect himself from losing money, should that happen.

        I wouldn’t be surprised if he eventually becomes the representative for the Flames in the CBA. Currently, Backlund is the representative. However, Tkachuk is already the alternate.
        At the age of 21. Yeah, the kid knows his stuff.

        A bridge deal, though good for the Flames, won’t help Tkachuk much.

        I think you might see this drag on until September.

        • Raffydog

          Ship him out if hes that problematic. The Flames should be signing players that want to proudly wear the flaming C, not overrated primadonnas who couldn’t skate with my grandma.

          • Off the wall

            Lol, Raffy friend. How can you call a player problematic, if he’s smart and wants to maximize his return?

            I don’t think there’s any player on the team who wears the “C” so proud as Tkachuk does. He didn’t get Alternate Captain status because he was a prima-donna. Now you’re just being silly.

            I think someone needs a HUG again…

          • The Iggy complex

            I guess basically every NHL player is a primadona then. There actually shouldn’t be any players playing on any team. Not should any body be working at any job. All these greedy people wanting to get paid the most they can at their job

        • Budgie

          I see, thank you-they signed Clarkson for Cap Relief. and Nathan Horton will go on LTIR with a couple of others-they could have 12-13 million to play with-If Tkachuk wants a huge payday Calgary will have no choice but to trade and it may not be Brodie and Frolik-interesting–if Tkachuk wants over 8 million I am not convinced he is worth that-pretty risky for a long-term deal-correct you are-bridge deal is likely

  • Ludis Fanaticus

    Does anyone know if there is anything in the CBA that would preclude a team from offering a one year contract and then immediately offering a contract extension?
    I’m thinking make MT a deal with what you can this year and then one that you sign immediately thereafter that covers next year forward, when you have more room in the cap.

  • Sterls

    My last post got me thinking about what could have been if the Zucker and Kadri trades went through, and Tre still does the Lucic deal.

    This is assuming the trades were as reported:
    Zucker for Frolik and Bennett (I hope it was actually Zucker for Frolik and picks but for this I’m including Bennett)
    Kadri and Brown for Brodie and Jankowski



    I really like this lineup, outside of the lack of insurance on D if someone gets injured and the loss of Bennett. What does everyone else think, do you prefer what we have now, or what should have been?

    • HOCKEY83

      Far prefer What the Flames have now. Zucker is way over paid for his calibre of player. Played more minutes that ever last season and regressed quite a bit last year. Thank god the flames dodged that bullet. Kadri was shuffled down the line up last season in Toronto and proved he needs stars to play with or he’s just meh and when he gets frustrated he forgets about his team mates. Very happy neither of these moves were made.

      • Albertabeef

        2 players? Who was the other one? Don’t say Smitty, he had great numbers from January on. Stone, who barely got any ice time last season due to a blood clot? Hathaway is a better hockey player than Lucic, Lucic doesn’t even play the PK.

          • Albertabeef

            Ya but he was not refused starts by the coach last year. You said “struggled to play” which I took for getting ice time drastically cut which Smith never really did. You generally don’t look at a 35 year old to play more than 40-45 games in a season. He pretty much did what was expected of him last season. Nobody was expecting him to start 70 games at the beginning of last season. It’s not that I am arguing that he should have remained a Flame, or that he will be great for the Oil. Just that he was not so bad, and was even good from January on. Still can’t blame him for that playoff outage.

        • HOCKEY83

          You’re a little generous with the “great numbers” title for smith from january on. Hathaway will never be better than a 4th line player where Lucic was better than that for years so when all is said and done in the end lucic will have been the better player. At the moment Lucic has dropped to hathaway’s level but could easily have more points than hath did last season and certainly more hits.

          • Albertabeef

            Sorry but great numbers for a washed up backup. That is from January on. He was 12-8-1 with a 2.45 goals against and a .907 save percentage. From Feb 1st on he was even better 9-7-1(team played like crap lol) he had a 2.28 goals against and a .912 save%. If not great he was pretty solid and reliable down the stretch.

          • Albertabeef

            As for Lucic vs Hathaway, they were both scoring the same 0.25 point per game level. Consider Hathaway did it with 3 minutes less ice time per game. Lucic had “Bennett” style ice time(13ish minutes) and produced less than Benny’s 0.38 points per game.

          • Kevin R

            Sorry Beef but Lucic would beat the pi$$ out of someone where Hathaway is more of an energy player but no where near Lucic weight class. But I did like Hath!

          • Kevin R

            Not when i go to games & he see our skill guys getting mugged with no answer. Then yup, I like violence & retribution. Then I was fortunate enough to go see the Oiler Flame games in the 80’s & watch Semenko & Hunter beat the pi$$ out of players & often have some pretty decent bouts themselves. When you see 19000 people standing & screaming when they went into a corner & dropped their gloves nuff said. You may not like how I get enjoyment from the hockey games but I pay my money & am entitled to my opinion on what I like to see on this team.

      • Off the wall

        I get nervous, when I see Raffy being his old pleasant self.

        What’s that expression, “ Got out of the wrong side of the bed”

        Did you know Roman’s believed in bad luck getting outta the bed on the left side? Absolutely true.

        Try getting out on your right side Raffy, (unless it’s up against a wall) then try moving your bed so ya can get out on the RIGHT side?

        Perhaps it’s all that’s required?
        Of course, that and a BIG HUGE HUG from Otw! 🤗

    • HOCKEY83

      I think the flames have done what they can. They got rid of a goalie who was over priced and only won games because the team in front of him outscored their opponents and they got rid of an overpaid forward who had no interest in making an effort on this team. Sure they still got a boat anchor contract back but they got a guy who’s give a shint meter is far higher than Neal’s and Talbot after playing for one of the worst defensive teams in the league will be given every chance to bounce back. There’s no way the flames will have money to add a top six forward this season. They cost too much. I believe the Flames are slightly better off than they were last season as the best team in the west and second best in the league so I’m hopeful they’ll have a decent season. Try being excited that Dube, Mangi, Janks, Vali, Ras and Kyller will be getting more ice time

      • freethe flames

        I am actually excited to see how much development has taken place in Dube’s. Mangi’a, Janko’s, Vali’s, Ras and Kyllers game. What I worry about is will it be enough for the team to have the break through we are looking. This team can have success if most of these guys take a major step forward but I still believe that we are piece away from being very good.

        • mrroonie

          It’s doubtful there has been any development in Jankowski’s case. It baffles me that people still think that he’s going to be any more than the soft floater he is who would need to use GPS and then still have to ask for directions to find the dirty areas of the ice. They should trade him for a pick or prospect and it would clear up enough room to cover what they need to sign Tkachuk and Mangiapane. Dube or Quine could easily fill the spot.

        • CowboyBob

          I’m actually more excited to see improvement from our top line players like Monahan, Tkachuk and Hanifin. For us to move forward, especially in the playoffs, these players need to better this upcoming season than last. We can’t have top line ‘core’ players peak at 23.

          • Raffydog

            You mean Monahan, Tkachuk, and Hanifin falling flat on their faces in the playoffs didnt do it for you. Three of the worst skaters in the league its no wonder they cant keep up to anybody in playoff hockey. Might as well wish for world peace while you wait for them to get better, you’d have just as good of odds.

          • Baalzamon

            You mean Monahan, Tkachuk, and Hanifin falling flat on their faces in the playoffs didnt do it for you. Three of the worst skaters in the league

            If I had been drinking coffee I would have spat it out here. Hanifin? A bad skater? Never change, Raff, never change.

          • CowboyBob

            Thunder1, career years for points yes, but that’s only one part of the game. Think about Yzerman and Modano, they went down in points but became
            200 foot players and lead their teams to Stanley cups. The playoffs showed the players listed above all have much to improve on.

      • Albertabeef

        Comment of the day-“They got rid of a goalie who was over priced and only won games because the team in front of him outscored their opponents”

        Um is this not how every single goalie everywhere in the world gets a win? LMFAO priceless!

          • Albertabeef

            Ya don’t credit yourself too much. It was way too funny of a comment not to make fun of. I preferred to say “the players had to score 6 goals in a game just to get a win”. It’s just silly because if you don’t outscore your opponent you do NOT get a win, regardless of who’s in net. If you don’t see the humor maybe you aren’t so smart.

  • drogon

    Jesse Puljujärvi wants to play in the US.
    Boeser is seeking $7M, Tkachuk has been smart to stick with his buddy Marner.
    The hold on Mangiapane could be that he’s looking for one-way but management’s offering two-way.
    We still have too many luxury on our roster:
    *Frolik @ $4.3M, if 3RW or 4RW
    *Brodie @ $4.65M, if 6D
    *Backlund @ $5.35M, if 3C
    *Lucic @ $5.25M, if 3LW or 4LW (not movable)
    But if Backlund becomes 3C, that line could play
    as much as the 2nd.
    Hopefully there’s still tweaks ahead before the training camp, to make our beloved Flames invincible in the playoffs!

    • Raffydog

      This iteration of the Flames needs more than a few tweaks to have success in the playoffs. Personally I’m looking forward to the next rebuild. With a competent gm who wont rush everything because of one flukey year, maybe it will be done properly next time. Waiting for this soft, mentally weak, overrated group to have any success is never going to happen. I’ve called it already, but it needs repeating, this roster, as is, will not make the playoffs this upcoming season.

        • CowboyBob

          We do need to consider coaching. While I think changing the coach is very disruptive, I’m very concerned with how this team came back from the all star break, how ill prepared they were for the playoffs, and the coaching failed to adjust in the playoffs. Peters may have a decent system, but that may be it, one trick pony.

          • MiamiRedhawks

            Exactly this!!!! Everyone talks about players not showing up. Well they are not going to show up if they are playing the system like they are supposed to and it fails.

      • BringtheFire 2.0

        @Raffy Dead wrong on all counts! Best defense in the league, outstanding coach, a bold, intelligent GM, 5 70 point players in a young, dynamic core, and a Norris champion captain that is the best leader in the league. Suggesting a rebuild is the mark of an impatient child who knows nothing about hockey and just wants to feel important online because their real life is probably terrible and meaningless.

        Long live Tre!! Long live Peters!!! Long live Looch!! Go Flames Go!!!!

        • 2 right skates and a wood stick

          I’m comfortable predicting that we’ll finish top 3 in the Pacific. The Sharks and Knights have both gotten a bit weaker and the other teams in the division haven’t improved enough to displace any of the top 3 teams.

        • Raffydog

          Lol, best defence in the league? Are you kidding me? That is by far one of the softest, and easiest to play against group of defenceman in history of the league.

        • Albertabeef

          @BTF Holy wow bud, blind worship much? I love Gio, but he just set a career high of 5 playoffs games in a single NHL playoff year at age 35. If Gio was in fact the League’s Best Leader as you say, we would NOT have been knocked out in five games. A bold intelligent GM does not buy out a player per season.
          Also Raffy did not suggest a rebuild but merely said he was looking forward to watching the next rebuild with hopefully a competent GM. Raffy is a bit on the extreme pessimistic side, but he isn’t entirely wrong.

          • BringtheFire 2.0

            @beef If you can’t see what I’m doing in that post, man, I don’t know. Maybe it’s the internet that’s making people stupid. Does anyone read anymore? Is that it? People are stupid because they don’t read?

            Dude, just ..I don’t know man. I don’t know anymore.

        • BringtheFire 2.0

          @Beef That was harsh, man, my apologies. I was a bit of a dik. Suffice it to say I was just trolling Raffy. Sorry for calling you stupid and getting egotistical.

          • Albertabeef

            We all have bad days. Tensions are high on here. Whether the cup is half full or half empty, there is still only half a cup lol. Some people are getting overly stressed about anything you may say that is bad about the Flames. That stretch run and playoff exit was nothing to be proud of, and some of us are stressed about it. Others see a first in the west and think we are on our way to the promised land. This is one of the weirdest summers when almost everyone has a different opinion about the Flames. I don’t think we could currently agree on anything as a group. Lots of frustration to go around.

        • Theo/14

          @BTF 2.0
          After reading your childish know it all rant, it would lead me to believe it is you who is probably leading a terrible meaningless life. If you didn’t like what raffydog had to say there is a trash button for a reason. I would bet his honest take on the flames has been more accurate over the last 30 years. All one needs to do is google Calgary flames playoffs record. I love the flames as much as anyone but this consistent playoff debacle needs to stop.

      • Gary

        Seems Edmonton checks most of your boxes raffyfog.
        Fired coach. Check
        Fired GM. Check
        Allowed fourth most goals against
        Scored less goals than 23 other teams
        Only 5 teams had less points than the sad sack up north
        Yakapov bust
        Puljujarvi’s Bust
        Is this the third rebuild, or fourth attempt for the oilers
        Just saying….

        • Albertabeef

          Wow, now lets look at all the Flame’s busts of draft picks over the years(Chucko to name at least one). Maybe just the list of goalies Flames have drafted who never played more than a few games with the Flames. I am pretty sure ALL NHL teams have had draft flops, Flames are not an exception to this.

          Can’t people be original and not use the Oiler’s as a comparison? Just because people see and voice flaws with our team does not automatically make them Oiler Trolls. The only guarantee with the Flames is, barring a natural disaster, that they will play 82 games this season. The outcome of those 82 games is pretty much unpredictable.

          • Gary

            Raffydog an oil pumper
            Chuck was 24 overall

            Oil busts
            Yakupov 1st
            Gagner 6th
            Paajarvi 10th
            Plante 15th
            Niinimaki 15th
            Mikhnov 17th
            Pouliot 22nd
            Puljujarvi’s 3 passed Tkachuk by
            All the above since 2000
            Where’s your 1st overall Hall?

          • HOCKEY83

            You can’t seriously believe that Raffy is not an oiler troll. The comments are just way to far out to lunch.

            The outcome of 82 games for every team this season is unpredictable. Just like no one on planet earth could have predicted every single first place teams and most second place teams would lose in the first round of the playoffs last year.

    • CowboyBob

      Marner > Tkachuk by a lot. Marner’s contract should have no impact on Tkachuk. Marner drives play on his line, MT is complimentary to his line, not the driver. In my opinion Marner is actually a better player and more important to the Leafs than Matthews.

  • MajorTom

    Trade Frolik to the Islanders for Ho Sang.
    Frees up salary we get a versatile prospect with some upside, who could make the team and can play right wing. If not we still save salary to sign Tkachuk. Then we have options with Brodie to trade for a top six forward.

    • Garry T

      Trade Frolik to Winnipeg for Ehlers straight up. Play Ehlers in #1 line.
      Edmonton needs to move Puljujarvi. Send Czarnik. Two natural right wingers in the fold, fixes a lot of issues and makes Flames more dynamic at the same time. Bigger faster team in Calgary with those two additions.

  • Raffydog

    The Flames have won a grand total of two games in their last three playoff series. How the majority of you are ok with that is beyond me. We should all be demanding wholesale changes. This core has failed at every opportunity, yet most of you cling to this hope that they will somehow get better. What is that definition of insanity people like to toss around here all the time?

    • HOCKEY83

      Don’t forget the 4 wins in the 4th playoff series. This core has 6 wins in 4 series. At least this young core has won 1 of their last 4 series. Here’s hoping they win at least a couple more this season

        • Theo/14

          Iggy you talk about how posters on here who know nothing about hockey and then you say this core is going to do what Washington has done? Really?
          Johnny vs Ovechkin ?
          Monohan vs Backstrom ?

          The only way we beat 4 teams in a row, in a best of 7 is if we do a 4 player trade of the above players I mentioned. Oh plus they’d have to also give us Holtby, Wilson, Kuznetsov, Burakovsky, Oshie and Carslon. That’s the only way we do what Washington has done. This core should not be compared to theirs.

          • The Iggy complex

            …… I didn’t say they were the same players… I said Washington failed alot in the playoffs and had to learn from it and gain the experience. Some of us just like to be positive about our sports team instead of just being super negative and depressed about everything

      • Albertabeef

        @hockey83 that one series win was against the hapless Nucks and Gio was not in the lineup that playoff run. Benny currently has more career playoff games than Gio.

        • HOCKEY83

          Injuries happen…it’s hockey. Not sure why it matters if Gio wasn’t in the line up or if Bennett has more playoff games than gio but you seem to be the type of person that would have an excuse for why it was a garbage win any time the flames won something…”well the only reason they won that was”…I think OTW is right about you.

          • Albertabeef

            It was the final season of the Sedin’s career and they were headed for a rebuild. I did not call it a garbage win. In fact it was a good achievement for the team. All the kids were pretty impressive that round. Ferly and Benny were awesome. It just sucks that the only time the Flames have had playoff success was when Gio was out of the lineup. Gio’s first playoffs were in 2006-07, he sat out the next Flames playoffs in Russia, and got injured the next season and missed another playoffs. I don’t know, he just seems to have bad playoff luck. Even in Junior Gio never got past 7 games in the playoffs. One year in Lowell and one in Russia is the extent of Gio’s experience past the first round.
            I compare Gio and Benny’s playoff games played as a comparison of experience between 35 year old and a 22 year old. It’s kind of funny to think of, a 22 year old that has more playoff experience than our 35 year old captain. It doesn’t really sound like a recipe for success. Especially when you factor in that our top offensive threat on the blue line(The Norris Winner) was outscored by a 22 year old rookie Dman in the playoffs(Andersson).
            Sorry to crap on the hero but I don’t think Gio is the captain who can lead the team to a cup. I have a sudden thought of Benny as the team’s new captain. All great captains have a great mustache :). One of the young guys needs to take over the leadership role. I don’t see Mony as captain, and I think Chucky is too much of a punk to be captain. We aren’t sure if Johnny will be here past 3 seasons, so I’d count him out. Our young D are quite established yet, Hamer and Brods have undecided futures. So I’m voting “Benny the Stache” as the new captain.

            Sorry late night thoughts lol.

    • cjc

      Things aren’t perfect, but let’s just look at something here:
      Gaudreau – Age 25
      Monahan – 24
      Lindholm – 24
      Bennett – 23
      Hanifin – 22
      Andersson – 22
      Tkachuk – 21
      Valimaki – 20

      The best is certainly yet to come for this crew, and while last postseason was embarrassing, it was really the *first* playoff series where expectations were higher.

      I appreciate people trying to challenge the consensus, but you seem more concerned with calling out other posters than actually offering your own ideas on how to improve the team.

      “How the majority of you are ok with that is beyond me”
      “most of you cling to this hope that they will somehow get better”
      “What is that definition of insanity people like to toss around here all the time?”

      It seems like you are more concerned with people agreeing with you than offering anything interesting to the conversation. It seems like you are trying to pick fights with other posters. It’s getting old.

  • PlayitagainSam

    So why didn’t Calgary buy out Neal and try and sign Maroon? Because Treleving. Treleving is like the wizard of Oz. The more we pull back the curtain the more we see that he is a fraud .

    • Budgie

      Buy out would have cost 10 million total-Edmonton has his contract until he is 36, imagine that. Calgary has Lucic till he is 34-I’ll gamble on Lucic. Neal couldn’t be traded anywhere else with that contract-Trev paid him way too much-stay away from UFA’s they are over-priced risks

  • Raffydog

    I swear I’m the only one here who actually watched all five playoff games from start to finish. Everybody keeps saying that they are getting better with experience, and it’s just growing pains. What could they have possibly learned in a measly five games? What did they learn in the four games the time before that? And the series before that one. What did they learn in those pitiful five games? This team cannot handle playoff hockey. It’s so obvious, its slapping you right in the face. But the majority continue to bury their heads in the sand, waiting for proven choke artists to suddenly grow a heart. We should all demand better from this failure of an organization. But as long as you pretend everything is right on track, real, meaningful change will never happen.

    • Budgie

      It went back to the style of game Dallas used to beat the Flames near the end of the season. Aggressive forechecking to strip Calgary of the puck, make Calgary try to dump and chase then beat them to the puck while the smaller players can hit they can’t create a turnover against larger/fast players. Transition game nullified, watch for Smith to pass and hammer the recipient. Shoot on Calgary instead of fancy passes. With Colorado it looked like they were on a power play versus Calgary, however, it was even strength. Smith kept the games close, remember the shot totals?

    • cjc

      As if the people here have ANY influence on management decisions. Your problem is with Flames management, not this community so spare us the egotistical lectures and stop trying to get everyone to bow down to your superior hockey knowledge.

      What would you do Raffydog? Who would you keep, Who would you trade, what moves would you make. That is what people are interested in, not being told how stupid we are, day in, day out.

    • Albertabeef

      That’s funny because I have two friends from Ontario here in Victoria and they were both alive last time the Leafs made the finals(won a cup). My one friend from Ft Erie said he used to take a taxi cab to Buffalo to watch NHL games in the 1970’s.

  • Garry T

    Looking at our roster, I would suggest 1 a trade with the Jets, Nicola Ehelers
    Straight up for Frolik. Elehers goes with Johnny and Monny on the 1st. Line.
    2nd trade. Puljujarvi to Calgary for Czarnik. TJ for picks to Ottawa. With Puljujarvi you get a top four first rounder that has been mis handled. His contract is lower and he needs a chance and with his size and speed he could put up nice numbers on a second line. Ehlers again is bigger, fast and skilled. Two right shot, right wingers with top six capabilities really changes the team dynamic for this year.

    • supra steve

      Early into the glue Garry?
      Ehlers in return for Fro? Wow, good trade for the Flames.
      You say “Ehlers again is bigger”. Bigger than whom Gary? Bigger than you? He isn’t bigger than Fro.
      You also say he’s a “right shot, right winger”. Wrong again Garry.
      Similarly, JP for Czarnik would be great for the Flames. Not sure why Ken Holland would consider it though.

  • freethe flames

    Just about to hit the road on a family vacation. On my last vacation BT signed Bennett and Rittich and traded Neal for Lucic; as Meat Loaf said 2 out of 3 ain’t bad. I’m hoping while I am away he can get his other business done but get a better trade done.

  • MWflames

    Random thought: Could Kylington be trialed at forward? Great skater, good puck skills, sound offensive instincts. If we hang on to brodie this year, and have valimaki/andersson on the 3rd pair, its gonna be difficult to find kylington minutes. Could maybe slot in 4th line RW and let him skate circles around other 4th liners all year. Then for the expansion draft it may give you more flexibility if he could qualify as a forward?? Curious how the NHL goes about determining a players formal position. 99% of the time its blatantly obvious, but remember when Burns was playing both Forward and D a few years back? Would have made for an interesting discussion if there was an expansion draft back then.

    With all that said, Kylington probably wouldn’t thrive up front. Its just too bad we’re likely to lose him either via trade or expansion draft over the next 12 months. If it weren’t for that we could potentially have a reasonable top 4 penciled in for close to a decade.